It was not long ago (7 to 10 years ago) the Bengals had to rely on at least one or 2 draft picks to start immediately due to average to poor talent on the roster. In addition, it appeared we always had guys show up out of shape and not ready to work day one of camp.

It is refreshing to see our team progress and show up in impressive shape. Whittworth as usual leads by example and comes in at 307. Big Andre Smith comes into camp in great shape. Adam Jones, Eifert, Jones, AJ, Hill, Dunlap,Clarke, Hall, Dre and many others. Geno looks like a beast and is awesome shape.

I know we have been better for years, but I never take anything for granted. I applaud the FO for hiring/retaining this group, the coaches for setting the standard and of course the players who work their tails off in the off season (their vacation) to be ready.

This team deserves some good luck and fortune to match the talent to help them start winning playoff games and ultimately the Super Bowl.

Look around the league at all of the players inactive due to poor conditioning, the Bengals are of one of the best coming into camp ready. This was not the case not long ago.

For this team, head coach, QB, and on and on it's pretty much now or never.

(08-03-2015, 09:41 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For this team, head coach, QB, and on and on it's pretty much now or never.

Why?

Our roster is deep and average age is not an issue (we are not old), we have more depth than ever in my opinion.

I see a strong nucleus that will do well if they can avoid the major injuries to their studs or major injury to one position group like happened last year at LB and receiving (WR & TE).

(08-03-2015, 10:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why?

Our roster is deep and average age is not an issue (we are not old), we have more depth than ever in my opinion.

I see a strong nucleus that will do well if they can avoid the major injuries to their studs or major injury to one position group like happened last year at LB and receiving (WR & TE).

I believe it's now or never for some of the guys, but maybe not the entire team.

They have a lot of talent on paper, so if this team underachieves (IMO anything short of at least 1 playoff win), we could see some big changes made. We have a lot of guys coming off the books for 2016 (20+ guys by my count that will likely make the roster, at least 12 of them are starters or big time role players) and a few other players with outs in their current contracts (Andy, Peko, and Maualuga could be moved, could be more that I'm not thinking of).

I think a year with tons of players becoming free agents would be an ideal time to make some larger than usual changes IF the team underperforms without anything crazy happening (Andy and Hill both going down in week 1 for example, then it would almost be expected to miss the playoffs all together).

(08-03-2015, 10:30 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I believe it's now or never for some of the guys, but maybe not the entire team.

They have a lot of talent on paper, so if this team underachieves (IMO anything short of at least 1 playoff win), we could see some big changes made. We have a lot of guys coming off the books for 2016 (20+ guys by my count that will likely make the roster, at least 12 of them are starters or big time role players) and a few other players with outs in their current contracts (Andy, Peko, and Maualuga could be moved, could be more that I'm not thinking of).

I think a year with tons of players becoming free agents would be an ideal time to make some larger than usual changes IF the team underperforms without anything crazy happening (Andy and Hill both going down in week 1 for example, then it would almost be expected to miss the playoffs all together).

I think there are a few as well like Peko, Rey M for contract and age issues and I am not counting out Whittworth yet, but he does have to keep proving father time has yet to catch up with him like he did in 2014.

I think others it will be based on the individual performance versus winning with Dalton at the top of the list. He could have a very good year and other do not causing us to not make the playoffs or advance. If he does not play well, he like many other may be gone as his contract is structured to let him go without a lot of dead money.

As for all the free agents,  yes we have a bunch, but we also have over $50 million to spend plus any rollover from this year. The guys deserving will get paid, the others may come back, but guys like Hall (may not survive camp in 2015) will be signing much lower contracts.

I don't see as big a changeover as others may for 2016.

(08-03-2015, 10:30 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I believe it's now or never for some of the guys, but maybe not the entire team.

They have a lot of talent on paper, so if this team underachieves (IMO anything short of at least 1 playoff win), we could see some big changes made. We have a lot of guys coming off the books for 2016 (20+ guys by my count that will likely make the roster, at least 12 of them are starters or big time role players) and a few other players with outs in their current contracts (Andy, Peko, and Maualuga could be moved, could be more that I'm not thinking of).

I think a year with tons of players becoming free agents would be an ideal time to make some larger than usual changes IF the team underperforms without anything crazy happening (Andy and Hill both going down in week 1 for example, then it would almost be expected to miss the playoffs all together).

Your optimism for change is nauseating

(08-03-2015, 01:41 PM)PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop Wrote: Your optimism for change is nauseating

Your lack of reading comprehension is nauseating.

I merely stated that after this season, IF the team underperforms, we may potentially see some more changes than usual in a Bengals offseason.

What's so crazy about that?

(08-03-2015, 12:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think there are a few as well like Peko, Rey M for contract and age issues and I am not counting out Whittworth yet, but he does have to keep proving father time has yet to catch up with him like he did in 2014.

I think others it will be based on the individual performance versus winning with Dalton at the top of the list. He could have a very good year and other do not causing us to not make the playoffs or advance. If he does not play well, he like many other may be gone as his contract is structured to let him go without a lot of dead money.

As for all the free agents,  yes we have a bunch, but we also have over $50 million to spend plus any rollover from this year. The guys deserving will get paid, the others may come back, but guys like Hall (may not survive camp in 2015) will be signing much lower contracts.

I don't see as big a changeover as others may for 2016.

My point was, if the team underperforms, this is the year where the big changes could be made much easier than most offseasons.

Marvin isn't on a huge extension with a 4 year WC loss streak hanging over his head, we have tons of starters coming off the books, and we have others with outs in their deals.

I don't know if there will be a huge turnaround, and maybe this time next year we'll be talking about how Marvin and Andy are showing off their Super Bowl rings together. If not, and if there are big changes that MB wishes to make, he will have his chance in 2016 more so than ever before.

I'm not sure why people are taking what I'm saying the wrong way, but tldr; If Mike Brown wants to make big changes, next offseason will be the most opportunistic time if you look at everything in detail. I believe that's why a lot of fans are calling this year a "now or never year".

(08-03-2015, 10:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why?

I don't know, maybe because we haven't won a playoff game since this was the #1 song:





Maybe because Marvin Lewis has been here for 12 years and, obviously, also hasn't won a playoff game. 

If not now then when?  Now should have been a long time ago.  It's time to demand results.  Immediately.

(08-03-2015, 01:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: My point was, if the team underperforms, this is the year where the big changes could be made much easier than most offseasons.

Marvin isn't on a huge extension with a 4 year WC loss streak hanging over his head, we have tons of starters coming off the books, and we have others with outs in their deals.

I don't know if there will be a huge turnaround, and maybe this time next year we'll be talking about how Marvin and Andy are showing off their Super Bowl rings together. If not, and if there are big changes that MB wishes to make, he will have his chance in 2016 more so than ever before.

I'm not sure why people are taking what I'm saying the wrong way, but tldr; If Mike Brown wants to make big changes, next offseason will be the most opportunistic time if you look at everything in detail. I believe that's why a lot of fans are calling this year a "now or never year".

 I understood your point and agreed with some of it.

I just added losing happens for many reason. The HC and the QB may or may not be the reason if it happens in 2015. There are a ton of reasons why we could fail. If MB was looking for a reason to fire ML, he had it after 2010 season and the 4-12 record. As for AD, I agree with you he may or may not be a Bengal in 2016 if he does not cut down on turnovers or play well this season.

I just don't see a major turnover regardless of how we do in 2015.

(08-03-2015, 02:14 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't know, maybe because we haven't won a playoff game since this was the #1 song:





Maybe because Marvin Lewis has been here for 12 years and, obviously, also hasn't won a playoff game. 

If not now then when?  Now should have been a long time ago.  It's time to demand results.  Immediately.

LOL...............demand results???????????????????????

You and I have zero authority to demand results from any owner, player or coach. We can boycott, but due to the NFL TV revenue, we will still have no voice.

But you go ahead keep thinking you have a vote or voice on the MB or FO decisions. Best of luck with that process.

Sure, I can make demands. I'm a potential customer. The demands I make are what I require from them to secure my business/support. It really doesn't need to mean anything beyond that. This is what the product needs to be for it to warrant my monetary support and/or interest. Period.

Of course my opinion matters. So does yours. To the degree they matter may be very, very, very minute. Yet they do matter. Collectively, each and every opinion, matters a whole lot. While my voice may be small, I still have one. And I'll chose to continue to devote my time and money elsewhere, as long as I see similar results.

Fwiw, I'm assuming you don't vote?

(08-03-2015, 04:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sure, I can make demands.  I'm a potential customer.  The demands I make are what I require from them to secure my business/support.  It really doesn't need to mean anything beyond that.  This is what the product needs to be for it to warrant my monetary support and/or interest.  Period.

Of course my opinion matters.  So does yours.  To the degree they matter may be very, very, very minute. Yet they do matter.  Collectively, each and every opinion, matters a whole lot.  While my voice may be small, I still have one.  And I'll chose to continue to devote my time and money elsewhere, as long as I see similar results.

Fwiw, I'm assuming you don't vote?

I get it, but the hypocrisy starts when you watch a game. You just voted to put money in MB's pocket. You can watch any NFL game and it puts money in MB's pocket.

Yes, I  vote, but I know going in if my vote/voice is useless. You appear to think you matter. You don't as that bums you out.

(08-03-2015, 04:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sure, I can make demands.  I'm a potential customer.  The demands I make are what I require from them to secure my business/support.  It really doesn't need to mean anything beyond that.  This is what the product needs to be for it to warrant my monetary support and/or interest.  Period.

Of course my opinion matters.  So does yours.  To the degree they matter may be very, very, very minute. Yet they do matter.  Collectively, each and every opinion, matters a whole lot.  While my voice may be small, I still have one.  And I'll chose to continue to devote my time and money elsewhere, as long as I see similar results.

Fwiw, I'm assuming you don't vote?

It takes more to get something than just demanding it.  My 9 year old is just learning this lesson.  If it took nothing more than having a fan pitch a little fit to win playoff games then every team in the league would be winning.

I am  bengal fan, not a bandwagon fan.  I will be a Bengal fan even when they are losing.  I guess if I really thought holding my breath, crying, and stomping my feet made any difference I would do it.  But I know that the Bengals are trying to win, and it just isn't that easy to do.

(08-03-2015, 10:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why?

Our roster is deep and average age is not an issue (we are not old), we have more depth than ever in my opinion.

I see a strong nucleus that will do well if they can avoid the major injuries to their studs or major injury to one position group like happened last year at LB and receiving (WR & TE).

First off Mike Brown is still running the show so regular, normal, NFL ways of doing business go out the window. And I can't believe I'm about to type this but if Marvin doesn't at least win a playoff game this season it's hard for me to imagine he still has a job for 2016.

Dalton is pretty much connected at the hip to Marvin. If he pulls another roller coaster season and folds up like a pup tent in the 4 prime time games and pulls his spitting the bit act in another playoff disaster. It's hard for me to imagine he's still the QB in 2016.

Add in like DJS says we have a ton of FA's at the end of this season and I'd say there's a decent chance we see some change next year. If we fold again.

But......... it still goes back to the first sentence so you never know ?

(08-03-2015, 05:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It takes more to get something than just demanding it.  My 9 year old is just learning this lesson. 

Rep.

(08-03-2015, 10:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why?

Our roster is deep and average age is not an issue (we are not old), we have more depth than ever in my opinion.

I see a strong nucleus that will do well if they can avoid the major injuries to their studs or major injury to one position group like happened last year at LB and receiving (WR & TE).

Here's a list of some free agents going into 2016: AJ Green, Sanu, Marvin Jones, Andre Smith, Leon Hall, Andrew Whitworth, Reggie Nelson, George Iloka, Adam Jones, Lamur.

That's 10 starters right there. Then you have backup depth players also becoming free agents, and the Bengals will have to spend bank on a few players to get them to stay.

It really is now or never.

(08-03-2015, 05:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It takes more to get something than just demanding it.  My 9 year old is just learning this lesson.  If it took nothing more than having a fan pitch a little fit to win playoff games then every team in the league would be winning.

I am  bengal fan, not a bandwagon fan.  I will be a Bengal fan even when they are losing.  I guess if I really thought holding my breath, crying, and stomping my feet made any difference I would do it.  But I know that the Bengals are trying to win, and it just isn't that easy to do.

1.) There is no such thing as a bandwagon Bengals fan.  There is no bandwagon to jump on or off of, and hasn't been for quite some time.

2.) Do you treat real life, grown up business decisions with such logic?

If I tell you that I'm not interested in the new 2014 Camry, because I'm looking for a 6 cylinder that gets better gas mileage, do you accuse me of whining or stopping my feet?  If I tell you that I switched from Kroger to Rempke, because of better produce and ease of getting in and out of the parking lot, do you call me a baby for not continuing to patronize Kroger?

I'm struggling to understand why me simply sharing what it's going to take for me spend more money and time on this organization is any less valid than other consumer decision.  There are fans of many products, throughout many categories, that share their praise or displeasure with whatever current product is out.  Why should football be any different?

(08-04-2015, 12:53 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) There is no such thing as a bandwagon Bengals fan.  There is no bandwagon to jump on or off of, and hasn't been for quite some time.

2.) Do you treat real life, grown up business decisions with such logic?

Rep.

(08-04-2015, 12:53 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) There is no such thing as a bandwagon Bengals fan.  There is no bandwagon to jump on or off of, and hasn't been for quite some time.

2.) Do you treat real life, grown up business decisions with such logic?

If I tell you that I'm not interested in the new 2014 Camry, because I'm looking for a 6 cylinder that gets better gas mileage, do you accuse me of whining or stopping my feet?  If I tell you that I switched from Kroger to Rempke, because of better produce and ease of getting in and out of the parking lot, do you call me a baby for not continuing to patronize Kroger?

I'm struggling to understand why me simply sharing what it's going to take for me spend more money and time on this organization is any less valid than other consumer decision.  There are fans of many products, throughout many categories, that share their praise or displeasure with whatever current product is out.  Why should football be any different?

Being a fan of a team is NOTHING like a business decision.  If it were then you would root for a different team every single year.

So, no, I do not treat being a fan of a team anything like a business decision.  And honestly I don't see how anyone else could.