I was looking at the Bengals draft picks on defense since 2005.
The Dennards,Sands,Atkins, Ilokas and so forth
It's going on 12 years since O'Dell Thurman that the Bengals had a DROY candidate
I'm talking a real impact player difference maker on defense
Burfict had a very nice rookie season but no rookie since even him has really been able
To come out of the gate on fire (he was undrafted I know)
Every drafted rookie on defense that was selected before rd 5 other than Thurman
That ended up a starter took a couple years to really find himself
We need a rookie on defense to really put a spark in the lineup
Whether it be Wilis or Lawson it don't matter
On offense it's been different .Green and Dalton came out guns blazing such as Hill.
But this team needs a real game changer on defense
Not 3 years from now or next year
NOW!!
look at that lb from the Falcons...huge impact player
It's time

His name was just Odell. There's no apostrophe

A lot of that has to do with our top drafted defensive rookies being put on IR or just riding the pine their rookie seasons.

Carlos and Geno had really good seasons for us in 2010 but they should have played more, Leon and Joseph were really good in their rookie seasons, and Vontaz had DROY kinda of season his first year. Anyways not sure why it matters considering that we have had a consistent defense since 08 and it's been a very tough lineup to crack into since then.

I'm talking a Joey Bosa, Jevon Kearse kinda year not merely a hood year a great year!!

I think we passed on our DROY player when we drafted Ross. But he may end up being OROY. Same thing when we drafted 2 OT's.

I doubt you'll see a droy during marvins time. It doesn't fit his scheme.

People knock game manager qbs, although they're effective. Marvin takes the same approach with defenses. Control the mid to long range game and wait for the other team to make a mistake. For the most part, it works.

I think Marvin needs to change up.his approach on defense
Cause its resulted in how many playoff wins since 2005?
A monster year from Lawson or Willis would be huge in getting the Bengals into the
Playoffs and hopefully farther this year
The lack of a game changer at OLB has kinda been the achilles of this defense
How many failures have we seen of late .....Dansby Hawk P.J Dawson

Willis and Lawson both have me excited, but i don't think they'll get enough snaps for DROY

(05-30-2017, 12:17 AM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Marvin needs to change up.his approach on defense
Cause its resulted in how many playoff wins since 2005?
A monster year from Lawson or Willis would be huge in getting the Bengals into the
Playoffs and hopefully farther this year
The lack of a game changer at OLB has kinda been the achilles of this defense
How many failures have we seen of late .....Dansby Hawk P.J Dawson

It's resulted in one of the best defensive back groups in the NFL. Since Dalton came into the league I think 1 time the defense hasnt been in the top 10 in allowing the fewest points per game.

(05-30-2017, 12:17 AM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Marvin needs to change up.his approach on defense
Cause its resulted in how many playoff wins since 2005?
A monster year from Lawson or Willis would be huge in getting the Bengals into the
Playoffs and hopefully farther this year
The lack of a game changer at OLB has kinda been the achilles of this defense
How many failures have we seen of late .....Dansby Hawk P.J Dawson

I think Minter gives them a very solid option as the other Nickel LB next to Burfict.  Much, much quicker than the ones you listed and Vigil will see more and more snaps as well.  Both of them are significant upgrades in terms of being able to cover RBs and TEs.  

As far as a DROY goes, it is often a player that gets the gaudy stats at either DE or CB/S.  I think Willis would have the greatest opportunity as we FINALLY get more of a rotation again at the RDE position.  Willis's strength and speed coming in fresh should be a nightmare for opposing LTs (or RTs, as he has also played extensively at LDE, and I would like to see Carlos kept more fresh as well).  I don't think he will have a ridiculous number of sacks to draw attention to himself nationally, but it could happen.  Especially when you consider the Bengals may be playing from a lead more often as the offensive firepower looks stronger than it ever has in the Dalton Era.

The real "game changer" here is Burfict.  He is unquestionably the best player on defense, and it looks like he is taking his contract year seriously.  I can't wait to see him out there.

(05-30-2017, 12:35 AM)Synric Wrote: It's resulted in one of the best defensive back groups in the NFL. Since Dalton came into the league I think 1 time the defense hasnt been in the top 10 in allowing the fewest points per game.

To be fair, without Burfict at his best, the middle of the defense was lacking.  The line was good, the secondary was good, but the LB corps was below average.  A healthy Burfict, Minter, Vigil, and Lawson looks to be a significant upgrade of the likes of Hawk, Rey M, Vinny Rey, and Dansby.  

For this to happen the rookie needs to play. Not going to happen under Marvin, he coaches too scared, scared of what might happen if he puts an inexperienced person on the field. In Marv's world the glass is always half empty - nothing will go right it will always go wrong.

You guys are really stuck on the Marv doesn't play rookies narrative. There's plenty of examples where that's not the case (including the guy Mixon needs to beat out). If they're good enough they're going to play.

(05-30-2017, 08:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You guys are really stuck on the Marv doesn't play rookies narrative. There's plenty of examples where that's not the case (including the guy Mixon needs to beat out). If they're good enough they're going to play.

I agree somewhat. Marv has played a lot of rookies, but that's usually when they draft to fill a void. If there's a veteran incumbent, that's when things are a bit more complicated. I think Marv makes rookies jump through hoops to take the job from a veteran.

Our DL is SUPER heavy in rotation and rookie pass rushers typically don't do well, sans top picks. They aren't winning DRoY

(05-30-2017, 01:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree somewhat. Marv has played a lot of rookies, but that's usually when they draft to fill a void. If there's a veteran incumbent, that's when things are a bit more complicated. I think Marv makes rookies jump through hoops to take the job from a veteran.

And I think there's a wisdom in this.   You don't want to toss a guy into the mix who's not totally ready.

And he's not the only coach that does this.  Belichick did the same thing with Brady riding the pine before Bledsoe got hurt.   I think it was clearly dawning on them that Brady was a prospect that was a lot better than they thought he would be.  But it took Bledsoe getting hurt for them to stick Brady in there.

Obviously the flip side of the coin is that you are squandering a superior talent you've not qualified while you make continue with a known commodity that is good but not great.

So it took an injury to get Burfict into the lineup despite his excellent pre-season performance.

Damned if you don't and you miss time with a potential pro bowl player;  damned if you do and you spoil a player before he's ready for prime time.

In the present case I think he'll get enough reps for Lawson and Willis to see if they show the potential to upgrade the pedestrian pass rush of an otherwise good quality player in Johnson.  If Willis shows both against the run and as a pass rusher he may get significant time.   I think Lawson will be a situational pass rusher while he trains at OLB.

(05-30-2017, 01:47 PM)3wt Wrote: And I think there's a wisdom in this.   You don't want to toss a guy into the mix who's not totally ready.

And he's not the only coach that does this.  Belichick did the same thing with Brady riding the pine before Bledsoe got hurt.   I think it was clearly dawning on them that Brady was a prospect that was a lot better than they thought he would be.  But it took Bledsoe getting hurt for them to stick Brady in there.

Obviously the flip side of the coin is that you are squandering a superior talent you've not qualified while you make continue with a known commodity that is good but not great.

So it took an injury to get Burfict into the lineup despite his excellent pre-season performance.

Damned if you don't and you miss time with a potential pro bowl player;  damned if you do and you spoil a player before he's ready for prime time.

In the present case I think he'll get enough reps for Lawson and Willis to see if they show the potential to upgrade the pedestrian pass rush of an otherwise good quality player in Johnson.  If Willis shows both against the run and as a pass rusher he may get significant time.   I think Lawson will be a situational pass rusher while he trains at OLB.

Wasn't that case for Dunlap also? I seem to remember Lewis saying he needs to learn to practice or something to that effect...

(05-30-2017, 04:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Wasn't that case for Dunlap also? I seem to remember Lewis saying he needs to learn to practice or something to that effect...

That's exactly what happened to Dunlap. He wasn't taking things seriously so he saw very little action in the first half of the 2010 season. It's what's happening to PJ Dawson right now. He hasn't taken practice seriously and he's nothing more than a bubble player now.

(05-30-2017, 06:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Minter gives them a very solid option as the other Nickel LB next to Burfict.  Much, much quicker than the ones you listed and Vigil will see more and more snaps as well.  Both of them are significant upgrades in terms of being able to cover RBs and TEs. 

Arizona chose to sign Karlos Dansby instead of re-signing Minter because they wanted to improve the pass coverage capabilities of their linebackers.  Minter is a more of a 2-down Maualuga replacement.