(08-07-2017, 02:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: And 2 years ago, when we still had Whit and Andre on hefty contracts, 1st round deals on Og and Z, and guys like MLJ, Gio, and Sami on rookie deals, the opposite would be true.  We still didn't win a playoff game trying to build up the OL as the strength of the team 

That is true.....but I think we were a fluke play that resulted in losing our starting QB away from making at least a run at the AFCCG.

The OL issues stem in part from poor front office strategy. Common sense would have said to take the one year money hit and tag (your choice) either Whit or Big Z. Either choice would have rendered the Andre Smith experiment unnecessary and if it were Whit we would also have a fallback position at LT.

(08-07-2017, 02:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: The OL issues stem in part from poor front office strategy. Common sense would have said to take the one year money hit and tag (your choice) either Whit or Big Z. Either choice would have rendered the Andre Smith experiment unnecessary and if it were Whit we would also have a fallback position at LT.

Smith costed less than Z. That's why they did it.

I agree that tagging one would have been an awesome move...but also an expensive move that the front office didn't want to consider.

(08-07-2017, 01:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was fine with letting those guys go. I was not fine with how lax they were about replacing them...or even finding a reliable insurance policy for Ogbuehi.

They're going all-in on him again, after he sunk our season almost single-handedly last year. Seems moronic.

When you're not a big player in free agency...losing some of your best players devastates a position group. They did atleast sign Andre Smith...but it remains to be seen how he transitions.

I'm not convinced that drafting a LT in Round 2 was the answer either.

Ideally, they would have tagged Whitworth and signed Mangold to upgrade Center...then play a guy like Westerman to replace Zeitler.

(08-07-2017, 02:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: Tells the tale right there.......Mikey doesn't "value" those positions.....

I don't know. He's paid Anderson, Jones, Whitworth over the years.

The Bengals absolutely don't value Center and Guard.

The Bengals thought there was no way Whitworth was leaving. Their plan was to retain Whitworth and then roll with either Smith at Guard or a guy like Westerman. When Whitworth left...they scrambled.

Do I like John Ross and Mixon? Yes. I do.

But as someone posted earlier, we have a ton of money invested in QB, WR, and TE.

At what point do you not draft a WR and invest in the offensive line with a Guard or similar?

It's more a team building philosophy if anything.

(08-07-2017, 01:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Thanks for the input, Denny.  :andy:

Your just jealous you don't get to ride in the cart with Mikey as his yes man!

(08-07-2017, 03:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know. He's paid Anderson, Jones, Whitworth over the years.

The Bengals absolutely don't value Center and Guard.

The Bengals thought there was no way Whitworth was leaving. Their plan was to retain Whitworth and then roll with either Smith at Guard or a guy like Westerman. When Whitworth left...they scrambled.

You're exactly right, and I should have specified that.....we seem to get beat up the gut since we lost a good center.  The point of attack.....

I'd actually be worried if the O-line WASN'T struggling against this D-line. We have 2 of the best in the NFL (Atkins and Dunlap) as well as one of the more gifted hybrid pass rushers we've had.

The nice thing is that they probably won't face too many that have a better line then what they see in practice.

(08-07-2017, 03:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: You're exactly right, and I should have specified that.....we seem to get beat up the gut since we lost a good center.  The point of attack.....

The Bengals need to shift their thinking with the changing NFL. Tackle used to be the most important positions on the offensive line...but Guard has caught up with all the pulling and different schemes that teams run.

There is a weird thing about the draft philosophy that the Bengals use and then retaining their own. Say you draft every position on offense in a Year. Say 2 WR's turn into stars and a C. They then keep these players. They get a big 2nd contract. Your roster composition may be heavily bloated in several positions financially and really thin in others. It may be better to allow some of these guys to leave in order to have a well balanced roster.

(08-05-2017, 03:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Easy to speculate with loss of Whittworth and Zeitler, we could be worse on the OL. For me thoough I have no idea how we will look game one against the Ravens, but our run blocking has been less than stellar the past few years. Maybe our run blocking with a new more explosive back will get better in 2017.

I am optimist and think likely they will not be the disaster many predict, but we well see if they get better than the 2016 group which was average at best with Whittworth and Zeitler.

Personally, I hope we get to the place ASAP where we don't even think about Whitworth and Zeitler being elsewhere.

Any O line would struggle with dumb ass in charge.

(08-07-2017, 02:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: Sayers was a once in a lifetime talent.....much like Barry Sanders.  Bad knee injury and shoddy medicine cut him down too soon.

Gayle Sayers and Walter Payton were Barry Sanders before Barry Sanders was Barry Sanders.
















































Barry Sanders.











































Just wasn't sure if i typed his name enough.  

(08-07-2017, 12:56 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well we all have our own opinion ( for example i was not that impressed with Holtz at a clinic), i gained from the session and came away impressed... 

my main problem is many act like he is not a NFL caliber coach and like they have the ability to judge a NFL coach... bottom line he might eventually have two players he coached for the majority of their career that could end up in the  HOF in Anderson and Whitworth.. that says something , 

It is not like he was just gifted into Bengals coaching, he coached at two stellar colleges in Penn State and Michigan, then  was on jets staff before Cincinnati and there are multiple articles from various professional sources that have been written about Alexander and his coaching.  

We all can be fans and be unhappy with our line play from last year and might want to have a different coach that is fine but to demean him as not a NFL coach holds no weight and is outside of reality. 

Quoting the great philosopher Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear!"

The Maestro's body of work over the past 20+years of work is proof positive. How many late round or undraft players has he coached up to pro bowl status? I am tired of seeing players, who he covenants, masquerade as turnstiles especially at the center position. He was part of the lost decade and the stench of his involvement during this black period will always be present. He is very expendable as a coach!


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The Steelers had a poor offensive line for a bunch of years and still played well. Recently they have improved.

There is hope even if our line is below average. If they are bad...there might not be hope.

I wouldn't be surprised if we signed Mangold if the line looks really bad.

(08-07-2017, 02:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: The OL issues stem in part from poor front office strategy. Common sense would have said to take the one year money hit and tag (your choice) either Whit or Big Z. Either choice would have rendered the Andre Smith experiment unnecessary and if it were Whit we would also have a fallback position at LT.

Tag should have been Whitworth. No question. He's 35, will be 36 by end of the year, but he still plays at an elite level. Ogbuehi could have been groomed behind Whitworth as either the first player off the bench or competed for starting RG and swing over to LT in the event of an injury to Whit.

(08-07-2017, 09:57 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Quoting the great philosopher Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear!"

The Maestro's body of work over the past 20+years of work is proof positive.  How many late round or undraft players has he coached up to pro bowl status?  I am tired of seeing players, who he covenants, masquerade as turnstiles especially at the center position.  He was part of the lost decade and the stench of his involvement during this black period will always be present.  He is very expendable as a coach!


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His defenders will point to Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Andrew Whitworth, Eric Steinbach, and Kevin Zeitler. However, what irritates me with that argument is that those players were all top-50 selections. They are expected to be very solid players at worst. Congrats to PA for not having those players be a disappointment? ::golfclap::

I'd be much more impressed if he could continually churn out talented OL that were late round picks.

The only thing I can hope for is that hopefully since Ogbuehi and Fisher were first and second round picks, they can play up to their draft status. Otherwise, PA has really failed at the one thing he's been good at in his coaching career with the Bengals.

Related note: If Ogbuehi is really struggling, what are the chances the Bengals and Anthony Collins can repair the bridge that was burned? He's only 31 and was solid in a swing tackle role.

I am not a fan of Alexander the Great at all. I think he is total shit as an OLine coach. The one thing I will always point to that backs up my opinion is this; Marvin Lewis has always preached that we need to be a run first or at least balanced offense because we play in the AFCN. For a team that is so focused on being able to run the ball, take a look at our running stats and YPC. We always rank in the bottom half of the league or worse.

The head coach constantly preaches running the ball and we supposedly have this good OLine coach, but we always execute poorly in the run game. I think they both need to be gone, but Alexander the Great should've been on the chopping block at least 10 years ago.

Brandon Albert is going to Unretire and be released. Probably an upgrade at LT