(08-08-2017, 05:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is no debate, so I don't seem to understand what you thought you were debating. You kept trying to argue something that isn't debatable. The answer to your initial question was "No, you can not see any signs of CTE in scans we have today". You proceeded to argue that point with multiple people when it was in fact an understood fact. You tried reasoning it out in relation to your issues as people continued to simply tell you the actual facts around the issue.

There is no bias, you just don't like to be told you're wrong.

So CTE just develops with no other visible damage to the brain?

To me, it seems like if the brain had taken enough beating to cause CTE, there would be a good amount of physical damage to the outer parts of the brain.

(08-08-2017, 06:11 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So CTE just develops with no other visible damage to the brain?

To me, it seems like if the brain had taken enough beating to cause CTE, there would be a good amount of physical damage to the outer parts of the brain.

You're still doing it...

(08-08-2017, 06:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: You're still doing it...

Please show me where someone posted that there would be no other visible damage.

Shouldn't be too hard to find because there's only two pages in the thread.

(08-08-2017, 07:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Please show me where someone posted that there would be no other visible damage.

Shouldn't be too hard to find because there's only two pages in the thread.

Wheezy posted a link for you already explaining that as of now there is no way to recognize CTE without an autopsy, as I and other people have tried to explain to you. People are trying to find new ways, but they don't exist yet.

(08-08-2017, 07:26 PM)Au165 Wrote: Wheezy posted a link for you already explaining that as of now there is no way to recognize CTE without an autopsy, as I and other people have tried to explain to you. People are trying to find new ways, but they don't exist yet.

And I pointed out that, if there was enough damage to cause CTE, then there would have to be enough damage to notice in brain scans, even if they can't specifically see CTE.

(08-08-2017, 07:44 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And I pointed out that, if there was enough damage to cause CTE, then there would have to be enough damage to notice in brain scans, even if they can't specifically see CTE.

Well Brad there isn't, and you're wrong, hence why no one has found a way to tell someone they have CTE while they are living yet. You are not a doctor and your presumption is wrong based on all known medical science around the subject. If they could tie any correlation from brain scans to CTE I'm sure they would love to but that's not been discovered. If you have new information you should sell it to the NFL so they can bury it or use it, either way it would be worth a fortune.

If you read the link you'd see they are working on scans but it's preliminary and not close to being ready for actual use.

The hysteria concerning CTE won't impact the NFL in the short term. However it is impacting the high school game and it is almost touch football


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This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering with all the technology we have today, why we can't make a better and safer helmet that helps cut down on concussions, etc.

(08-08-2017, 07:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Shouldn't be too hard to find because there's only two pages in the thread.

It's almost like this message board isn't populated with neurologists, or something.

(08-08-2017, 08:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering with all the technology we have today, why we can't make a better and safer helmet that helps cut down on concussions, etc.

Sadly, I think we may have simply become medically and technologically advanced enough to only realize that there simply is no safe way for a human being to incur head trauma on a regular basis.  What price knowledge, eh?

(08-08-2017, 07:44 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And I pointed out that, if there was enough damage to cause CTE, then there would have to be enough damage to notice in brain scans, even if they can't specifically see CTE.

You keep saying "if there was enough damage". Breech already explained in post #24 that it takes a specific test on brain tissue to find abnormal protein deposition with a microscope. 

It's not as simple as a 'seeing a bruise' to know there's some sort of injury that could be, or lead to, CTE. 

(08-08-2017, 08:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering with all the technology we have today, why we can't make a better and safer helmet that helps cut down on concussions, etc.

Because a helmet can't stop the brain from slamming into the inside of the skull when you decelerate from 20MPH to a dead stop in fractions of a second.

(08-08-2017, 08:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You keep saying "if there was enough damage". Breech already explained in post #24 that it takes a specific test on brain tissue to find abnormal protein deposition with a microscope. 

It's not as simple as a 'seeing a bruise' to know there's some sort of injury that could be, or lead to, CTE. 

You make it sound so complicated.  This isn't rocket science, it's neurology!

(08-08-2017, 08:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering with all the technology we have today, why we can't make a better and safer helmet that helps cut down on concussions, etc.

Because it's almost impossible to stop the brain from being bounced around inside the skull when large men move at such great speeds only to come to a complete stop, time after time after time. 

(08-08-2017, 08:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You make it sound so complicated.  This isn't rocket science, it's neurology!

Rocket surgery!!!!

(08-08-2017, 08:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Because it's almost impossible to stop the brain from being bounced around inside the skull when large men move at such great speeds only to come to a complete stop, time after time after time. 

OK, thanks.

(08-08-2017, 08:45 PM)Au165 Wrote: Because a helmet can't stop the brain from slamming into the inside of the skull when you decelerate from 20MPH to a dead stop in fractions of a second.

This. You don't even need to be hit in the head to sustain this type of injury. Think whiplash injury for example. Seat belt prevents your head from hitting the dash, but you sustain a concussion from your brain smacking against the inside of your skull. The "whip" aspect of the whiplash is a force multiplier because it dramatically increases the acceleration of the head.

(08-08-2017, 12:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You are being quite ignorant. 

Your doctor didnt scan you for CTE. He scanned you for brain damage. There is a difference.

CTE can ONLY be diagnosed right now through AUTOPSY. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/new-brain-scan-leap-cte-research-article-1.2636640

But the tau that causes CTE is visible, so I wasn't really being ignorant.  

Also, if a brain has suffered enough trauma to have CTE, there would be visible damage.

(08-08-2017, 05:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is no debate, so I don't seem to understand what you thought you were debating. You kept trying to argue something that isn't debatable. The answer to your initial question was "No, you can not see any signs of CTE in scans we have today". You proceeded to argue that point with multiple people when it was in fact an understood fact. You tried reasoning it out in relation to your issues as people continued to simply tell you the actual facts around the issue.

There is no bias, you just don't like to be told you're wrong.

(08-08-2017, 07:26 PM)Au165 Wrote: Wheezy posted a link for you already explaining that as of now there is no way to recognize CTE without an autopsy, as I and other people have tried to explain to you. People are trying to find new ways, but they don't exist yet.

(08-08-2017, 07:51 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well Brad there isn't, and you're wrong, hence why no one has found a way to tell someone they have CTE while they are living yet. You are not a doctor and your presumption is wrong based on all known medical science around the subject. If they could tie any correlation from brain scans to CTE I'm sure they would love to but that's not been discovered.  If you have new information you should sell it to the NFL so they can bury it or use it, either way it would be worth a fortune.

If you read the link you'd see they are working on scans but it's preliminary and not close to being ready for actual use.

I actually did read the link but, until now, I didn't really pick up on it to notice what was obviously proving my point.

There was a buildup of tau in the brain scans that is visible before death, and the tau leads to CTE, so no, I'm not wrong, but thanks for making me look it up to prove you wrong.

Here's a link showing healthy tau and damaged tau, which may not show exactly CTE, but it's what causes CTE.  

Therefore, you do brain scans, and, if a player is missing tau or it's damaged, you end their career.

(08-08-2017, 08:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Because it's almost impossible to stop the brain from being bounced around inside the skull when large men move at such great speeds only to come to a complete stop, time after time after time. 

(08-08-2017, 09:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This. You don't even need to be hit in the head to sustain this type of injury. Think whiplash injury for example. Seat belt prevents your head from hitting the dash, but you sustain a concussion from your brain smacking against the inside of your skull. The "whip" aspect of the whiplash is a force multiplier because it dramatically increases the acceleration of the head.

That's what happened to me in the wreck from going 55+ mph and then hitting a tree.

(08-08-2017, 10:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: But the tau that causes CTE is visible, so I wasn't really being ignorant.  

Also, if a brain has suffered enough trauma to have CTE, there would be visible damage.



I actually did read the link but, until now, I didn't really pick up on it to notice what was obviously proving my point.

There was a buildup of tau in the brain scans that is visible before death, and the tau leads to CTE, so no, I'm not wrong, but thanks for making me look it up to prove you wrong.

Here's a link showing healthy tau and damaged tau, which may not show exactly CTE, but it's what causes CTE.  

Therefore, you do brain scans, and, if a player is missing tau or it's damaged, you end their career.

You don't get it, but that's fine it's what you do. Good luck Brad.

(08-08-2017, 08:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You keep saying "if there was enough damage". Breech already explained in post #24 that it takes a specific test on brain tissue to find abnormal protein deposition with a microscope. 

It's not as simple as a 'seeing a bruise' to know there's some sort of injury that could be, or lead to, CTE. 

Plus it is a degenerative condition that worsens with time. Arthritis is a fairly decent analogy. If you x-rayed most NFL players joints you would see little to no arthritis in young men in their 20s. But, in their 40s or 60s they most likely have a greater degree of degenerative changes compared to their peers who didn't play professional football. Plus an x-ray can't tell you if the degeneration is due to osteoarthritis vs. rheumatoid arthritis because it requires more specialized testing. Furthermore, yearly scans would increase their exposure to radiation and their chances of developing cancer as a result of the increased radiation without any demonstratable improvement in outcome (e.g. reducing the player's chance of developing CTE.)

Or Brad's the first person to think of scanning their brains.

We could put this to the Occam's Razor test. All the doctors and researchers never thought of scanning someone's brain for CTE until Brad. Or, they did think of it and brain scans aren't diagnostic for CTE.

Like how many licks to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop, I guess we'll never know.