While most football fans will always picture him as a 49er, former Bengal Justin Smith decided to hang up his cleats today.

(05-18-2015, 05:35 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: While most football fans will always picture him as a 49er, former Bengal Justin Smith decided to hang up his cleats today.

What the Hell happened in SanFran?

(05-18-2015, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What the Hell happened in SanFran?

That team looks a lot worse on paper right now than they have in recent memory.

(05-18-2015, 06:29 PM)djs7685 Wrote: That team looks a lot worse on paper right now than they have in recent memory.

At least they have an undefeated head coach to replace one of the best coaches in all of football.

(05-18-2015, 06:34 PM)MrRager Wrote: At least they have an undefeated head coach to replace one of the best coaches in all of football.

Now that is loyalty to your coach, what ever he was doing to the organization apparently the players agreed. To bad management decided one of the best/hottest(no *****)/great football minds was not the direction they wanted to go for the futrue.

(05-18-2015, 07:13 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: Now that is loyalty to your coach, what ever he was doing to the organization apparently the players agreed. To bad management decided one of the best/hottest(no *****)/great football minds was not the direction they wanted to go for the futrue.

As my favorite GM in the NBA likes to say "Opportunity isn't a lengthy visitor"....their window of opportunity is officially closed.

I always liked Justin Smith. I thought he would have been better as a pass rushing DT in our system, though.

(05-18-2015, 09:38 PM)treee Wrote: I always liked Justin Smith. I thought he would have been better as a pass rushing DT in our system, though.

I think he would have been better at either position if he had the same pharmacist that he obtained as soon as he moved out west. He added something like 30lbs of muscle in one offseason and became one of the best 3-4 ends in the league.

I felt cheated.

Wonder if he moves back to Cincinnati... maybe hits up the old bars?

(05-19-2015, 01:09 AM)B=======D Wrote: Wonder if he moves back to Cincinnati... maybe hits up the old bars?

I met him, Rich Braham, Matt O'Dwyer and several other linemen out at Fort Mitchell Sports bar back in '02.

Those guys were always out on Sundays after the game.

7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

I always enjoyed watching him with us. Good career. Glad he's retiring on his own terms and not watching him just disappear.

(05-19-2015, 01:43 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I met him, Rich Braham, Matt O'Dwyer and several other linemen out at Fort Mitchell Sports bar back in '02.

Those guys were always out on Sundays after the game.

thats awesome man. Ive never really met anybody out on the town but I live in Cbus. About 6 yrs ago I took my 3 yr old to training camp when we were still in Georgetown and it was day 1 of camp. Georgetown is a dump but we didnt have a sharpie so we stopped at I think it was the Kmart right as you get off the exit. We go in both wearing chad johnson jerseys and swear to god he was in there getting stuff for the dorm room. He came over and met my son and said hello. I almost forgot the Sharpies after that. oh wait this was about Justin Smith. Never met him. Back to the regular scheduled programming....

(05-19-2015, 01:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

Yes, fans expected more sacks from a #4-overall pick. He was seen by many as a disappointment.

(05-19-2015, 01:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

It was also a different position. The 3-4 end has a bit different responsibilities compared to a 4-3 end. He was a solid pass-rusher here, but had a good motor and never gave up on the play. I could be wrong, but I believe one year he led the team in tackles (the Bengals), which is rare for a DE. However, he became bigger and stronger in SF and helped to form an incredible defense. Remember, the 49ers weren't that good when he went there.

I felt like he was solid, and really thought they had a stud after his rookie year. He seemed to regress a bit after that and never really made the jump to the next level until he was in San Francisco. The Niners, for some strange reason, seem to use our defensive castoffs properly (Smith, Brooks, Skuta). Smith did put on some serious muscle as a Niner (hmmmm).

(05-19-2015, 01:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

Bresnahan was the most vanilla DC when it came to using players.
Zimmer (and now PG) love the sub-packages and kicking DE's around.

Smith would have been viewed similarly if he played under Zimmer here

(05-19-2015, 04:02 AM)Toy Cannon Wrote: Yes, fans expected more sacks from a #4-overall pick.  He was seen by many as a disappointment.

I think that's unfortunate. MJ has averaged 5.3 sacks as a Bengal and Dunlap has averaged 7.1, yet those guys are loved by the fans. I think guys like Wilkinson and Justin Smith were doomed by their draft status. Both were very good players, but they couldn't match the (perhaps unreasonable) expectations of the fan base. Fwiw, Justin is 2nd on the Bengals all-time sack list. If he'd spent his entire career with the Bengals, he'd be 1st with 87 sacks. Eddie Edwards would be 2nd with 47.5.

(05-19-2015, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It was also a different position.

I get that, but ultimately he was producing exactly the same. I guess for a 3-4 DE those numbers are slightly more impressive, but 67 tackles and 6+ sacks for a 4-3 DE is still very good production. The 49ers had a solid foundation when Justin arrived and they were on their way up.

(05-19-2015, 12:02 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Smith did put on some serious muscle as a Niner (hmmmm).

Justin was listed at 285 on the 49ers official site, and that's pretty close to what he weighed here.

(05-19-2015, 01:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Smith would have been viewed similarly if he played under Zimmer here

Agreed. If Smith put up the same numbers for an elite defense, I think he'd have more fans around Cincy.

(05-19-2015, 01:48 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 7 years with Bengals: averaged 67 tackles and 6.2 sacks
7 years with 49ers: averaged 59 tackles and 6.2 sacks

He actually had the same exact sack total (43.5) in Cincy and SF. Justin Smith was just as good here as he was in SF.

The only thing that changed was perception. Here he was stuck on below average defenses with teams that barely contended.

In SF, he was on an elite defense with teams that went deep in the playoffs. Also, people didn't appreciate him here because he didn't meet sky high expectations.

The big difference is where he was getting his sacks. In a 4-3, as a defensive end, you better be able to get consistent pressure and sacks. He was never that guy here, and not worth the money.

In a 3-4, his sack totals were pretty good, hence the reason why he was viewed as a better player in SF.

People always forget that they tried him out at LB and he didn't live up to the contract. When they moved him inside, he was much better.

(05-19-2015, 04:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The big difference is where he was getting his sacks.  In a 4-3, as a defensive end, you better be able to get consistent pressure and sacks.  He was never that guy here, and not worth the money.

In a 3-4, his sack totals were pretty good, hence the reason why he was viewed as a better player in SF.

People always forget that they tried him out at LB and he didn't live up to the contract.  When they moved him inside, he was much better.

Then why do so many people love Michael Johnson? Who is essentially a poor man's Justin Smith as a 4-3 DE.
His best years as a Bengals aren't on Smith's level, and Smith did it with none of the talent (Geno and Dunlap) on the DL to help him out.
Yet people love him.

It's because fans expected a 10+ sack guy from Smith and that wasn't him. Fan expectations and poor coaching ruined his perception around Cincinnati.
If they had used him they way they used DEs later on (especially under Zimmer) and fans had more access to his Mizzou tape, fan perception of him would be much, much different.