(09-05-2017, 11:53 AM)BMK Wrote: Seriously?? They can tag him for the next 2 years for less money than they were willing to pay him. His only recourse is to hold out completely and make absolutely nothing...which of course he won't do. But even if he did, the steelers have won without him in the past and it would give them an extra 12 million dollars lying around to play with.

The steelers are in control here. This is why players generally hate the franchise tag and why it will be a major issue in the next CBA between the union and the league.

Steelers are in control in the money sense, but it causes a cancer in the locker room when all the players are tired of his antics, and not to mention that now he's even more likely to be injured since he hasn't been in camp (I understand that he'll have been working out on his own, but there's a big difference between being in live drills with other NFL players and drills on your own).

Also, it creates almost a slave-mode of operation, which, again, your "model franchise" wouldn't ever do if they held themselves to their own standards.

Pittsburgh's organization holds on to cancers and players that break the rules/law or have attitudes that go against their organization's philosophy/mindset/morals because it keeps them winning, and then people ignore that the entire franchise is trash.

(09-05-2017, 04:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Steelers are in control in the money sense, but it causes a cancer in the locker room when all the players are tired of his antics, and not to mention that now he's even more likely to be injured since he hasn't been in camp (I understand that he'll have been working out on his own, but there's a big difference between being in live drills with other NFL players and drills on your own).

Also, it creates almost a slave-mode of operation, which, again, your "model franchise" wouldn't ever do if they held themselves to their own standards.

Pittsburgh's organization holds on to cancers and players that break the rules/law or have attitudes that go against their organization's philosophy/mindset/morals because it keeps them winning, and then people ignore that the entire franchise is trash.

You are the poster boy for confirmation bias. 

(09-05-2017, 05:42 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: You are the poster boy for confirmation bias. 

Explain which part or parts are bias and how.

(09-05-2017, 08:08 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Explain which part or parts are bias and how.

LOL...This question is clear evidence that no explanation is necessary.  I don't expect you to understand why that is either. 

(09-05-2017, 08:37 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: LOL...This question is clear evidence that no explanation is necessary.  I don't expect you to understand why that is either. 

Typical Steelers fan can throw out shade with no backing, just like their entire complexity of superiority.  

However, I'll play and explain why it's not just bias hate:

(09-05-2017, 04:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Steelers are in control in the money sense, but it causes a cancer in the locker room when all the players are tired of his antics, and not to mention that now he's even more likely to be injured since he hasn't been in camp (I understand that he'll have been working out on his own, but there's a big difference between being in live drills with other NFL players and drills on your own).

It causes a cancer because all of the other players are working their asses off and Bell's not there because he's bitching about being the highest paid running back in the league.  There's important players who are making a fraction of what he's bitching about, and they haven't been suspended for weed or hurt for 17 of a possible 64 games.

Explain how that's showing bias.

(09-05-2017, 04:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Also, it creates almost a slave-mode of operation, which, again, your "model franchise" wouldn't ever do if they held themselves to their own standards.

Steelers are holding him captive and making him play on their terms or nothing.

Explain how that's not a slave-mode of operation and how that's showing bias.

(09-05-2017, 04:32 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Pittsburgh's organization holds on to cancers and players that break the rules/law or have attitudes that go against their organization's philosophy/mindset/morals because it keeps them winning, and then people ignore that the entire franchise is trash.

Your QB rapes women.

Bell smokes pot but it's ok because he's a great back.

Martavis Bryant was suspended an entire year but the Steelers' fans and organization will be ok with it as long as he produces.

So please tell me how any of that is just me being bias?

(09-05-2017, 09:02 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Typical Steelers fan can throw out shade with no backing, just like their entire complexity of superiority.  

However, I'll play and explain why it's not just bias hate:

It causes a cancer because all of the other players are working their asses off and Bell's not there because he's bitching about being the highest paid running back in the league.  There's important players who are making a fraction of what he's bitching about, and they haven't been suspended for weed or hurt for 17 of a possible 64 games.

Explain how that's showing bias.

Steelers are holding him captive and making him play on their terms or nothing.

Explain how that's not a slave-mode of operation and how that's showing bias.


Your QB rapes women.

Bell smokes pot but it's ok because he's a great back.

Martavis Bryant was suspended an entire year but the Steelers' fans and organization will be ok with it as long as he produces.

So please tell me how any of that is just me being bias?

LOL...Did you just quote yourself a whole bunch of times?  

(09-05-2017, 08:08 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Explain which part or parts are bias and how.

Explanations don't matter to people who rely exclusively on confirmation bias. You don't even understand that most of the time I'm not even trying to prove you wrong, but rather that the facts don't warrant the absolute certainty you display.

But, it would appear that you cannot allow yourself to not know everything. So why would I keep fighting against the nonsense of someone who has deluded himself that he's never wrong?

(09-01-2017, 08:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: .... he's holding your "model franchise" by the nuts and controlling what they do, which goes against everything that your "model franchise" stands for.

(09-05-2017, 09:02 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Steelers are holding him captive and making him play on their terms or nothing.

 Holy crap, you totally contradicted yourself. Doesn't make a bit of sense. You can't have it both ways.  Pick one.

Also, you keep referring to the steelers as if they hold themselves up as a "model franchise' or some sort of standard bearer. I don't see it. Could you please give the SPECIFIC EXAMPLES you're referring to where they have sold themselves to the rest of the league as a "model franchise", above the other organizations in the league?

(09-06-2017, 11:27 AM)BMK Wrote:  Holy crap, you totally contradicted yourself. Doesn't make a bit of sense. You can't have it both ways.  Pick one.

Also, you keep referring to the steelers as if they hold themselves up as a "model franchise' or some sort of standard bearer. I don't see it. Could you please give the SPECIFIC EXAMPLES you're referring to where they have sold themselves to the rest of the league as a "model franchise", above the other organizations in the league?

You're wasting your time.  He'll just respond with circular reasoning and confirmation bias, then tell you that you have no logic. 

(09-01-2017, 09:32 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Keeping one of the best players in the league in his prime on your team for two extra years while simultaneously being the only team allowed to work out a long term deal with him during that time sounds like a pretty reasonable move for a team that wants to win more Super Bowls.  

Yeah Pitt is at a huge advantage being able to keep him locked down through the FT. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them let him walk and invest in building out the rest of the team. Given this is most likely Ben's last year before retirement, they are going to need some funds to stay competitive in the near future...

Ben is such a difference maker - it truly is remarkable how the Steelers go from a great team to a .500 team the minute he steps off the field, even with the other two Bs.

The Steelers' big 3 each are headcases in their own special way.

But the front office will continue putting up with them as long as they produce.

The Steeler Way.

Of course, the Bengals hold onto Pacman and Burfict, so something about glass houses and throwing rocks.

(09-06-2017, 09:35 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: LOL...Did you just quote yourself a whole bunch of times?  

To elaborate on each point and give you a chance to address each one individually.  That one was pretty obvious.

Steelers fans are getting slower and slower these days.........

(09-06-2017, 09:43 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Explanations don't matter to people who rely exclusively on confirmation bias.  You don't even understand that most of the time I'm not even trying to prove you wrong, but rather that the facts don't warrant the absolute certainty you display.  

But, it would appear that you cannot allow yourself to not know everything.  So why would I keep fighting against the nonsense of someone who has deluded himself that he's never wrong?

They don't display absolute certainty, but they all seem pretty obvious, except to delusional people like Steelers fans who ignore it, as long as they keep on winning.  

(09-06-2017, 11:27 AM)BMK Wrote:  Holy crap, you totally contradicted yourself. Doesn't make a bit of sense. You can't have it both ways.  Pick one.

Also, you keep referring to the steelers as if they hold themselves up as a "model franchise' or some sort of standard bearer. I don't see it. Could you please give the SPECIFIC EXAMPLES you're referring to where they have sold themselves to the rest of the league as a "model franchise", above the other organizations in the league?

False.  They're both holding each other captive, making it a lose-lose situation.  

Brown's making them franchise him and not signing the deal, but also not showing up until September, and that's making them look bad, causing drama, and not getting the team to have valuable reps with him, which it's not like they can do much.

The Steelers are holding him captive by franchise tagging him and not allowing him any other options.

Someone with a traumatic brain injury teaching logic to a Steelers fan.......  not surprising 

(09-06-2017, 11:30 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: You're wasting your time.  He'll just respond with circular reasoning and confirmation bias, then tell you that you have no logic. 

Please explain how my above explanation is wrong.

(09-06-2017, 11:30 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: You're wasting your time.  He'll just respond with circular reasoning and confirmation bias, then tell you that you have no logic. 

Lol, you called that one 2hrs and 40 minutes before it happened. But then again, anyone could've called it. 

(09-06-2017, 03:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To elaborate on each point and give you a chance to address each one individually.  That one was pretty obvious.

Steelers fans are getting slower and slower these days.........

No matter how much you polish a turd Brad, it's still a turd.     You just tried to polish 3 turds.  Stop playing with turds.   

(09-06-2017, 04:09 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: No matter how much you polish a turd Brad, it's still a turd.     You just tried to polish 3 turds.  Stop playing with turds.   

Typical Steelers fans response: ignore all logic when they have no answer and throw out another attempt at an insult to draw attention away from the fact that they have nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion.

[quote='BFritz21' pid='421013' dateline='1504721026']
 They're both holding each other captive, making it a lose-lose situation.  

 Holding each other captive??  Do you you even read what you write?? That's how you're trying to justify totally contradicting yourself?  

Brown's making them franchise him and not signing the deal, but also not showing up until September, and that's making them look bad, causing drama, and not getting the team to have valuable reps with him, which it's not like they can do much.

 Brown didn't 'make' the steelers FT him, that was a foregone conclusion months ago. Like any other player in this situation, the hope was to reach a long term deal before the deadline, but it didn't happen. So the Steelers are now paying him less than what they would be if he would have accepted their offer. The conventional wisdom, even on these boards, is the steelers would only look bad, in this case, if they HAD paid him what he wanted. They didn't, and most would agree, rightly so. What little I've seen on Sports Center, NFL Channel, etc, is that he's back with the team, and now that preseason is over, they're glad to have him back. They know the business. Most veterans would have gladly skipped preseason too if they had the opportunity. You think Edelman and others wish they could have skipped preseason? He'll be starting on Sunday...bank on it.  Will he get hurt? Maybe. Just like every other player in the NFL might get hurt.

So yeah, you're wrong about that. 

The Steelers are holding him captive by franchise tagging him and not allowing him any other options.

He absolutely does have other options. He has the option to not play for the team at all. Strictly his choice. Keep in mind that the franchise tag is something that was voted on and agreed to by the players at the last CBA.

 He could have signed a VERY lucrative deal and been set for life, but he turned it down in favor of the tag. His choice. So no, they are in no way 'holding him captive'. It was his choice.

So you're wrong about that, too



Please explain how my above explanation is wrong.

See bolded responses above.

(09-06-2017, 03:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Please explain how my above explanation is wrong.

You are simultaneously the only person on this board that needs an explanation and the only one who would refuse to accept it once given.

(09-06-2017, 06:11 PM)BMK Wrote:

(09-06-2017, 03:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  Holding each other captive??  Do you you even read what you write?? That's how you're trying to justify totally contradicting yourself?  

Explain how that's false?  You just throw out bullshit insults and empty rhetoric and pass it off as informed knowledge.

The Steelers are holding Bell captive by franchising him and not giving him other options.  Bell is holding them captive by forcing their hand to franchise him while also not showing up for the preseason, which creates a cancer in the locker room and will also increase Bell's injury probability.

I read what I write......  try and keep up.


Brown's making them franchise him and not signing the deal, but also not showing up until September, and that's making them look bad, causing drama, and not getting the team to have valuable reps with him, which it's not like they can do much.

 Brown didn't 'make' the steelers FT him, that was a foregone conclusion months ago. Like any other player in this situation, the hope was to reach a long term deal before the deadline, but it didn't happen. So the Steelers are now paying him less than what they would be if he would have accepted their offer. The conventional wisdom, even on these boards, is the steelers would only look bad, in this case, if they HAD paid him what he wanted. They didn't, and most would agree, rightly so. What little I've seen on Sports Center, NFL Channel, etc, is that he's back with the team, and now that preseason is over, they're glad to have him back. They know the business. Most veterans would have gladly skipped preseason too if they had the opportunity. You think Edelman and others wish they could have skipped preseason? He'll be starting on Sunday...bank on it.  Will he get hurt? Maybe. Just like every other player in the NFL might get hurt.

So yeah, you're wrong about that. 

lol.......  he didn't "make them"?  what do you call not signing a more-than-fair contract?  What do you call holding out?  


If it was a foregone conclusion that he'd play under the franchise tag, then why were they even trying to negotiate a long-term deal.  Bell didn't want to play under the franchise tag and forced the Steelers hand by franchise tagging him.

Every other player in the NFL doesn't get hurt like Bell does and doesn't have glass knees.

I'm absolutely right about that.

The Steelers are holding him captive by franchise tagging him and not allowing him any other options.

He absolutely does have other options. He has the option to not play for the team at all. Strictly his choice. Keep in mind that the franchise tag is something that was voted on and agreed to by the players at the last CBA.

 He could have signed a VERY lucrative deal and been set for life, but he turned it down in favor of the tag. His choice. So no, they are in no way 'holding him captive'. It was his choice.

So you're wrong about that, too

Did Bell specifically agree on the franchise tag?

But the deal wasn't what he thought he deserved, and that's why they're holding him captive.  If every player in the NFL accepted offers the team thought was fair, there would never be any contract disputes.

He's being held captive from making what he thinks he's worth.

So no, I'm 100% right.

(09-06-2017, 07:34 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: You are simultaneously the only person on this board that needs an explanation and the only one who would refuse to accept it once given.

You keep saying that while refusing to give any explanation.
I don't buy explanations that can be easily refuted or that don't make any sense.  Steelers fans, on the other hand, eat anything their fed without questioning the credibility or quality, as long as it shines a positive light on the Steelers.

(09-06-2017, 08:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You keep saying that while refusing to give any explanation.
I don't buy explanations that can be easily refuted or that don't make any sense.  Steelers fans, on the other hand, eat anything their fed without questioning the credibility or quality, as long as it shines a positive light on the Steelers.

The fact that you can't even see that this statement would apply to you with a simple word change is why it's not worth debating with you.  

(09-06-2017, 08:57 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: The fact that you can't even see that this statement would apply to you with a simple word change is why it's not worth debating with you.  

False.

I can see positive things the Steelers do, but I just don't think that you can ignore the problems just because they win.

Watch this and listen to a native of Pittsburgh point out a lot of the same things that I do, plus more.

Again, though, Steelers fans are impossible to debate with objectively, as the above video points out.