Preach !

With the quick short passing game thr offense is running I think Malone might fit better than Cody Core. Malone was pretty good at using his body to box out defenders in college and showed he could do it in the preseason.

(10-05-2017, 05:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: How about the fact that he runs 23 MPH (GPS measured) with him uniform on?  Faster than AJ Green and the fastest time registered on the Bengals?  And he is 6'3" and 210lbs?  

I am not "defending him".  I am suggesting we see more of him over the incredibly average Brandon Lafell.  You know, Brandon Lafell, who has played a ton of snaps and four games and has....drumroll.... 10 catches for 76 yards.  

Wow.  What a #2.  I see why you are defending him.  

DHB is fast too. 
He's had drop issues all preseason. His routes are largely bad. He rounds them off and doesn't attack the ball. He's 6'3 210 but plays like 5'10 and 175. 

Where did I defend Lafell?
I didn't nice try there with the strawman.

(10-05-2017, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: With all due respect, exactly what chemistry have we seen between Lafell and Dalton?  He sure has had enough snaps...

My hope is to get Lafell and Boyd rotating in the slot and Core to get more time at X, and share that with Ross when he is healthy.  

Why we wait to develop these guys is beyond me.  The only logical explanation is Lafell is being paid more and that pisses me off to no end.  

That was exactly my point, Lafell should be playing much better with all these snaps with Dalton.

I am with you on giving some other WR's a shot to see what they have whether it is Core or Malone.

Both are talented, Core is more physical and can block while having that deep speed.

Malone is better at using his body to catch the ball which might help out Dalton more but one of the
problems in the running game has been poor blocking by the WR's and Lafell has been very poor in
this aspect.

(10-05-2017, 01:28 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Lafell is a better fit for the current offense. Lafell is an excellent blocker. Can get a contested catch more effectively knows how to adjust to hot routes.

If thise were true Lafell would have more than 75 yards and no TD's in 4 games.

Plus he has been a very poor blocker in the run game this year.

It is a what have you done for me lately league.

(10-05-2017, 05:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: DHB is fast too. 
He's had drop issues all preseason. His routes are largely bad. He rounds them off and doesn't attack the ball. He's 6'3 210 but plays like 5'10 and 175. 

Where did I defend Lafell?
I didn't nice try there with the strawman.

Keeping a guy like Core on the bench is defending Lafell because that is who he would replace....

He's had drop issues?  Please elaborate all knowing NFL scout...

(10-05-2017, 10:24 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Keeping a guy like Core on the bench is defending Lafell because that is who he would replace....

He's had drop issues?  Please elaborate all knowing NFL scout...

Watching him drop passes in the preseason is claiming to be an all knowing scout?
How is that so? I was just stating an observation. He had issues catching the ball. 

No, it's not. It's saying Cody Core isn't that good. I think Lafell is also bad. I don't think either guy is good. 

(10-05-2017, 10:26 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Watching him drop passes in the preseason is claiming to be an all knowing scout?
How is that so? I was just stating an observation. He had issues catching the ball. 

No, it's not. It's saying Cody Core isn't that good. I think Lafell is also bad. I don't think either guy is good. 

No, please elaborate the games and drops he had...this should be good. 

(10-05-2017, 10:29 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: No, please elaborate the games and drops he had...this should be good. 

I don't have Gamepass. But I know he had issues with the ball. As did Malone. 
You don't get many chances in PS. So ya gotta make them work. Which is why neither can unseat an awful Lafell. 

(10-05-2017, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Why we wait to develop these guys is beyond me.  The only logical explanation is Lafell is being paid more and that pisses me off to no end.  

If it makes you feel any better LaFell has been a lot better at playing football in the past 2 seasons than Core has.

(10-05-2017, 05:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: How about the fact that he runs 23 MPH (GPS measured) with him uniform on?  Faster than AJ Green and the fastest time registered on the Bengals?  And he is 6'3" and 210lbs?  

I am not "defending him".  I am suggesting we see more of him over the incredibly average Brandon Lafell.  You know, Brandon Lafell, who has played a ton of snaps and four games and has....drumroll.... 10 catches for 76 yards.  

Wow.  What a #2.  I see why you are defending him.  

So?  He was a lot faster than Treadwell at Ole Miss, and wasn't that productive in college, either.  The NFL is littered with guys like Core.  He's a big guy with a fast 40 that isn't a good route runner, lacks short area burst and quickness, and is a body catcher which negates his frame advantage by shrinking his catch radius dramatically and limits his ability to make contested catches.  You're trying to make Cobi Hamilton into AJ Green.

If you're not happy with LaFell, that's fair.  However, there's no logical reason as to why Core should be getting those snaps over Boyd, Erickson, or Malone based on what we've seen.  Why the love fest for Cody Core?  All those guys outperformed him in the preseason and Boyd and Erickson have outperformed him in the regular season.  Malone and Erickson have clocked faster 40's.

Reality is, Marvin's job is on the line, and for once, we're seeing them actually give young guys like Mixon, Willis, Glasgow, Lawson, etc playing time early in the season.  If Core gives us the best chance to win, he'd be out there more.  And again, there can be other things at play.  Is he running the right routes and making the right hot reads?  It would be pretty foolish to play him more if he isn't.  Does Dalton not have any faith in him?  He's failed to come down with a lot of catchable balls.  If you're running an offense, you want your QB to trust his reads and not second guess them because they don't trust the receiver to make the catch. 

(10-05-2017, 10:26 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Watching him drop passes in the preseason is claiming to be an all knowing scout?
How is that so? I was just stating an observation. He had issues catching the ball. 

No, it's not. It's saying Cody Core isn't that good. I think Lafell is also bad. I don't think either guy is good. 

Just an observation but you don't seem to think anybody is really good on the Bengals lately lol

Core has more talent than Lafell bottomline, he is just as big, but is faster with more physicality.

He has room to grow, same with Malone. Just give one of these guys a shot is all SHRacer and i are asking.

Dalton has missed Lafell being open a couple times but still, he doesn't get much seperation often.

(10-06-2017, 03:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just an observation but you don't seem to think anybody is really good on the Bengals lately lol

Core has more talent than Lafell bottomline, he is just as big, but is faster with more physicality.

He has room to grow, same with Malone. Just give one of these guys a shot is all SHRacer and i are asking.

Dalton has missed Lafell being open a couple times but still, he doesn't get much seperation often.

They're a 1-3 team whose only win came against the Browns who were without their two best defensive players and the lost in OT to a Packers team playing without THEIR two best defensive players and patchwork OL. They aren't a talented team, especially on the offensive side of the ball. 

Core does not have better talent. Talent doesnt mean athleticism. 
He isn't physical. he plays small. 

Give them a shot when they prove they can do it. 
Core doesn't get separation outside of blown coverage on vert routes. 

There's so much more to it. 

(10-06-2017, 04:11 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: They're a 1-3 team whose only win came against the Browns who were without their two best defensive players and the lost in OT to a Packers team playing without THEIR two best defensive players and patchwork OL. They aren't a talented team, especially on the offensive side of the ball. 

Core does not have better talent. Talent doesnt mean athleticism. 
He isn't physical. he plays small. 

Give them a shot when they prove they can do it. 
Core doesn't get separation outside of blown coverage on vert routes. 

There's so much more to it. 

Disagree with a lot of this...

1 - We beat down the Browns worse than anyone else by far, has to speak for something, they are an NFL team afterall.

2 - The Packers still have the best QB in the league in my honest opinion, never going to be easy to beat that team in their
house ever. They still had Jordy Nelson and Ty Montgomery on Offense and Clay Matthews on Defense. If it wasn't for Marv
telling our OC to take our foot off the gas and a missed kick we beat a great team in their place.

3 - The O-line is not talented, that is our problem and you know it. AJ Green, Gio, Mixon are all very talented.

4 - Core does have more upside than Lafell, he is faster and blocks more physical. Hell, that is why Simmons wanted him in
the first place, he can be a physical blocker and i have seen him block well. Just needs a chance. Lafell has shown he isn't
cutting it clearly. Give Core or Malone a shot and see what they can do. They cannot prove it until they get a shot man.

(10-04-2017, 08:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Last year, with injuries to AJ Green, Gio Bernard, and Tyler Eifert, the Bengals were left with a dearth of weapons on the offensive side of the ball.

We got a few glimpses of what Core could do toward the end of the season.  Coming in to this season, during spring practices, all we heard was his speed, ability to separate, and his outstanding work ethic.  He was a little nicked up at the midpoint of the preseason, but had three receptions for 39 yards in two games.

Fast forward to the regular season.  0 catches.  Yet, Brandon Lafell is trotted out there every game for the majority of snaps, despite a serious inability to generate separation.  I don't mean to dog Lafell...he is a fine #3 (or, our new "Sanu", with Tyler Boyd) but no one is generating vertical speed opposite AJ Green.  This was a huge problem last year and Core is not getting his opportunities now.  

Is he being punished for dropping the long pass against the Ravens in week 1?  Is he being punished because Dalton overthrew him down the sidelines in the same game?  At least he was open on both of those plays.  

I haven't seen his name on any injury report and I saw him almost every time be the first one down the field on punt coverage.  

Anyone know why this guy isn't getting more snaps?  With Ross still out, now is his chance to show what he can do.

idk why

but I have notice a couple of daltons misfires to Lafell where he over threw him   (I thought to myself it looked like he was throwing that for Core and lafell isn't that fast)


Would love to see more Core and Malone... hell even some Ross would be nice. I'm guessing as the weeks go on and Lazor builds his playbook we will start seeing more plays built for some of these other guys. and With Core the OL doesn't give much time for deeper routes to work.

(10-06-2017, 03:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just an observation but you don't seem to think anybody is really good on the Bengals lately lol

Core has more talent than Lafell bottomline, he is just as big, but is faster with more physicality.

He has room to grow, same with Malone. Just give one of these guys a shot is all SHRacer and i are asking.

Dalton has missed Lafell being open a couple times but still, he doesn't get much seperation often.

Nate, I gotta disagree here man. If there's one bengals coach who is fairly well thought of both on the boards and around the NFL I would have to think Urban is one. The fact that Core hasn't played much makes me think that Core is an athletic guy with a lot of speed who doesn't have the qualities needed to be a game day many snap getting WR. Especially considering that this year a lot of young players and rookies are getting playing time, I would say that if Urban thought Core was worth playing as a 2nd or 3rd WR, we would have seen it. The fact that we have not tells me that Core is not there yet. I'm not saying Core can't develop into that in the future (I've consistently said Core will polish into form next year, so I didn't want him cut back when we were talking about how many receivers should be kept).

Remember that this is the same Urban who didn't have a problem playing 5th rounder Marvin Jones as basically the second receiver (either MJ's first or second year, I don't remember which). So, Core not getting snaps is a Core problem not a coach problem.

And (not that you're doing it), don't use the argument that this is Marv's decision over Urban, when Marv is ok playing Willis and Lawson over MJ. That would not be a consistent argument.

(10-06-2017, 04:42 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Nate, I gotta disagree here man. If there's one bengals coach who is fairly well thought of both on the boards and around the NFL I would have to think Urban is one. The fact that Core hasn't played much makes me think that Core is an athletic guy with a lot of speed who doesn't have the qualities needed to be a game day many snap getting WR. Especially considering that this year a lot of young players and rookies are getting playing time, I would say that if Urban thought Core was worth playing as a 2nd or 3rd WR, we would have seen it. The fact that we have not tells me that Core is not there yet. I'm not saying Core can't develop into that in the future (I've consistently said Core will polish into form next year, so I didn't want him cut back when we were talking about how many receivers should be kept).

Remember that this is the same Urban who didn't have a problem playing 5th rounder Marvin Jones as basically the second receiver (either MJ's first or second year, I don't remember which). So, Core not getting snaps is a Core problem not a coach problem.

And (not that you're doing it), don't use the argument that this is Marv's decision over Urban, when Marv is ok playing Willis and Lawson over MJ. That would not be a consistent argument.

True enough about Urban, he sure seems to know what he is doing and Core may not be there yet.

Problem with all of this is it doesn't seem Lafell is anything special this year either and i have been a Lafell supporter
in the past. When a player is not up to snuff i always call them out, i don't have any bias for a struggling player.

And whether it is Urban or Marv's decision this seems all too consistent that it takes too long for the coaches to see
a player struggling and bench him for the other guy. This happened last year with Og and when we desperately
needed a deep threat it took too long to dress Core. He came in and played well when he got a shot last year.

Same old song and dance.

(10-06-2017, 04:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Disagree with a lot of this...

1 - We beat down the Browns worse than anyone else by far, has to speak for something, they are an NFL team afterall.

2 - The Packers still have the best QB in the league in my honest opinion, never going to be easy to beat that team in their
house ever. They still had Jordy Nelson and Ty Montgomery on Offense and Clay Matthews on Defense. If it wasn't for Marv
telling our OC to take our foot off the gas and a missed kick we beat a great team in their place.

3 - The O-line is not talented, that is our problem and you know it. AJ Green, Gio, Mixon are all very talented.

4 - Core does have more upside than Lafell, he is faster and blocks more physical. Hell, that is why Simmons wanted him in
the first place, he can be a physical blocker and i have seen him block well. Just needs a chance. Lafell has shown he isn't
cutting it clearly. Give Core or Malone a shot and see what they can do. They cannot prove it until they get a shot man.

1. Not really.

2. You're right. But we had a 21-7 jump and still couldn't do anything on offense in the second half without Mike Daniels and Nick Perry. That's bad. It isn't good. That's when you SHOULD be able to put up 30 points against a bad defense without it's best players. 

3. You say it as if I have defended them? Mixon and Gio are heavily reliant on the OL (bad) and QB (not good enough). AJ is reliant on the QB. Lafell is bad. Core isn't better than Lafell. Boyd has been bad. Erickson looks like our second best WR. Kroft is meh. Eifert and Ross don't count until they can actually play. Hill is bad. 3 good players doesn't make the offense talented. 

4. If he blocked better than Lafell right now, he'd play. Lafell has been detrimental to the run game as much as any OL. You prove it in practice. If you have drops, or round routes off in practice you won't play. It's that simple. 

(10-06-2017, 05:31 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 1. Not really.

2. You're right. But we had a 21-7 jump and still couldn't do anything on offense in the second half without Mike Daniels and Nick Perry. That's bad. It isn't good. That's when you SHOULD be able to put up 30 points against a bad defense without it's best players. 

3. You say it as if I have defended them? Mixon and Gio are heavily reliant on the OL (bad) and QB (not good enough). AJ is reliant on the QB. Lafell is bad. Core isn't better than Lafell. Boyd has been bad. Erickson looks like our second best WR. Kroft is meh. Eifert and Ross don't count until they can actually play. Hill is bad. 3 good players doesn't make the offense talented. 

4. If he blocked better than Lafell right now, he'd play. Lafell has been detrimental to the run game as much as any OL. You prove it in practice. If you have drops, or round routes off in practice you won't play. It's that simple. 

Cool man, i still place most of the blame on Marv and PA.

Atleast these 2 can be replaced. Doubt the scouting department gets any bigger in the Offseason.

In the end you have to coach these players up. You get what you get and talent is in the eye of the beholder.

Og was a first rounder, Fisher a 2nd rounder, Bodine was picked by PA etc

MLJ was a 5th rounder but Urban coached him into a decent WR. He might be able to do the same with Core or Malone.

Lafell is what he is, a solid experienced vet who cannot get much seperation.

(10-04-2017, 11:02 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I think in the short/medium term we still may not see a lot of him. I would assume that's not a reflection on him but more where we are at right now.

My belief is that Lazor is probably trying to limit playbook and scheme because of the OLine issues and trying to not get too fancy, over ambitious right now. 

We've seen a lot of short drops, passes coming out quick, RB's in the flat...he said his priority as OC was getting Andy back in rhythm and he has achieved that in the first 2 weeks.

We've barely gone vertical thus far (I remember one deep jump ball to AJ and that is about it) and since Lazor has come in we have not been having to chase quick scores.  

At some point that is going to have to change and we will need to open it up, hope our OLine can keep a clean pocket for more than a second and hopefully then Core gets a chance to show up.

PS : is Core a YAC type threat??? or is his speed focussed on deep routes??  if its the former then I would not be averse to seeing him maybe getting some of Boyd's targets as whilst Boyd is solid he's not gonna break a long one  (watch him now do exactly that this weekend )

Or be suspended.

(10-06-2017, 06:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool man, i still place most of the blame on Marv and PA.

Atleast these 2 can be replaced. Doubt the scouting department gets any bigger in the Offseason.

In the end you have to coach these players up. You get what you get and talent is in the eye of the beholder.

Og was a first rounder, Fisher a 2nd rounder, Bodine was picked by PA etc

MLJ was a 5th rounder but Urban coached him into a decent WR. He might be able to do the same with Core or Malone.

Lafell is what he is, a solid experienced vet who cannot get much seperation.

Coaching isn't some magic cure all. There's no fairy dust to sprinkle on them.
Ogbuehi was never going to be good. He just wasn't. He wasn't actually good at TAMU. 
Fisher was always a project. They screwed up jerking him around between LT, RT, TE and FB. 
Bodine was never going to be more than what he is. 

MLJ was always talented though. That's the difference. Round is largely irrelevant. The NFL clearly has issues with identifying talent. They always have. It's a nepotism driven league so you don't actually get the best of the best. With a few exceptions. Watch MLJ in college. It's all there. Urban might have helped refine it and hone it, but the talent was there. 
what talent was there for Ogbuehi? Bodine? 

They just haven't drafted good football players on that side of the ball.