(11-09-2017, 01:43 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agreed on Williams he’s not great in coverage. He always has his head down trying to make a big hit vs just wrapping up. Plus we just kinda just gave him a new contract and staring spot based off a small sample size of playing time mostly at nickle  linebacker. While were on the safety subject what is up with George  Iloka ? Maybe I’m crazy but when we lost Marvin Jones to Detroit us resigning Iloka helped soften the blow because I thought he was one of the better young, upcoming safeties in the league. When I watch the games I forget he’s even on the team sometimes, he makes very few big plays. Not sure if he just looked better playing next to Reggie Nelson ?

Yes.

(11-09-2017, 05:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Don't matter if he's injured or not, he's usually so far out of position, or blowing assignments over the top, we may as well ahve Ogbuehi back there.

He actually grades out at the bottom of average on PFF. (72.5 or the #54 safety.)

Iloka grades out at 78.5 or the #30 best safety.

Neither are great...but they're not bad either.

Vigil actually grades out equal to Ogbuehi. 41.0. Actually Ogbuehi grades out at 41.1.

Yes Vigil is worse than Ced.

This is too bad, about Derron Smith.  He was a guy that I had liked, and had hopes for, since he was first selected by the Bengals.  Honestly, I thought that they should have given him more playing time, as I remember him flashing well, in limited action. 

I guess he must have looked at being cut, and brought back the PS, as a big slap in the face.  I certainly hope that the team management takes the message well, and improves going forward.

Welp another aspiring player that should be on our 53 man roster, and that we tried to stash on the PS only to get scooped up by another team.

I thought a Smith/Iloka backfield was better than Williams/Iloka.

(11-09-2017, 06:14 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: There were several blown coverages. The only one off the top of my head with Williams was one to Lewis down the sideline 

The play I'm thinking of was a throw into the red zone about the hash mark....Williams was way off the receiver...and looked like he slipped to boot.

(11-09-2017, 10:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He actually grades out at the bottom of average on PFF. (72.5 or the #54 safety.)

Iloka grades out at 78.5 or the #30 best safety.

Neither are great...but they're not bad either.

Vigil actually grades out equal to Ogbuehi. 41.0. Actually Ogbuehi grades out at 41.1.

Yes Vigil is worse than Ced.

Interesting....never would have thought that from watching.  I guess I'm spoiled from the Nelson days.

(11-09-2017, 01:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I can't say I blame him for just quitting. He was behind Williams and was better at playing the ball. Williams is a 1 trick pony that is just a head hunter that gets out of position on every single passing play.

This.  Williams may be more physical but he misses his target more than he hits it.  Smith had good ball instincts and was a better deep safety than Williams, but....well, you know the rest....which one was being paid?

(11-09-2017, 01:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Derron is a ballhawk and could of started here and played well and might of made some gamechanging plays.

Shawn is not this type of player, sometimes you should gamble on playmakers over run stoppers.

This was dumb by us, smart by Derron. Bet we see him making plays on another team soon, pick 6 for Derron.

That bolded part is the antithesis of Marvin's MO.  He wants solid, not flash, and he doesn't go for big plays.  The problem is...Williams is barely a solid starting safety.

(11-09-2017, 10:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I guess he must have looked at being cut, and brought back the PS, as a big slap in the face.  I certainly hope that the team management takes the message well, and improves going forward.

Yeah, sure. They'll learn the message just like they learned the importance of signing quality free agents or the imporatnce of the interior of the offensive line or the importance of making adjustments mid-game (or at halftime). 

(11-09-2017, 01:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: You mean kind of like, Reggie Nelson?? 

Yep, should of kept him over Shawn no doubt. Heck should of kept Derron maybe over Shawn.

Ballhawks are much rarer than run stopping Safeties.

(11-10-2017, 09:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That bolded part is the antithesis of Marvin's MO.  He wants solid, not flash, and he doesn't go for big plays.  The problem is...Williams is barely a solid starting safety.

Will be nice moving on from this MO.

(11-09-2017, 01:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Derron is a ballhawk and could of started here and played well and might of made some gamechanging plays.

Shawn is not this type of player, sometimes you should gamble on playmakers over run stoppers.

This was dumb by us, smart by Derron. Bet we see him making plays on another team soon, pick 6 for Derron.

Yeah , like Williams dropping a pick six early in that Jags game that could have changed the game.  Im sick of these safeties. Ever since Reggie Nelson left our safety play has been horrible. So what do you do when your play is horrible? 

Other teams: Look for help on practice squad or FA
Bengals: Play horrible people and hope for the best

(11-10-2017, 02:13 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Yeah , like Williams dropping a pick six early in that Jags game that could have changed the game.  Im sick of these safeties. Ever since Reggie Nelson left our safety play has been horrible. So what do you do when your play is horrible? 

Other teams: Look for help on practice squad or FA
Bengals: Play horrible people and hope for the best

O come now, you know the mantra here, "We just gotta play better"....

(11-10-2017, 02:13 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Yeah , like Williams dropping a pick six early in that Jags game that could have changed the game.  Im sick of these safeties. Ever since Reggie Nelson left our safety play has been horrible. So what do you do when your play is horrible? 

Other teams: Look for help on practice squad or FA
Bengals: Play horrible people and hope for the best

Hopefully we don't see this anymore when Marv leaves, cause you are spot on here Bengalhoel.

I actually thought that maybe Shawn might be solid after Reggie left but it was a much bigger loss than i thought.

It is a passing league and you need your Safeties to make gamechanging plays when they get a chance.

Dropping pick 6's is a big no no. Have to make best of these opportunities that don't come around often.

I remember when Marvin got here...he'd sign guys he coached with the Ravens and guys like Dhani Jones that were out on the street and they'd be upgrades and stabilize us.

Now it appears that Williams might not go Sunday....

(11-10-2017, 05:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Now it appears that Williams might not go Sunday....

FEJ! And probably Shaw as backup safety, which I always thought was his ideal fit anyway.

Now wait a minute, he y'all go being inconsistent again. Look back through the posts, and you'll see there was no bigger supporter of Reggie Nelson than I was, he was my favorite player. But now that they let the vet go to play Williams, you're complaining. You can't criticize Lewis, (who I despise and hate to defend), for refusing to play younger players, then criticize him when the younger player turns out to be nowhere near the player the vet was. It's just hypocritical.

(11-10-2017, 07:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Now wait a minute, he y'all go being inconsistent again. Look back through the posts, and you'll see there was no bigger supporter of Reggie Nelson than I was, he was my favorite player. But now that they let the vet go to play Williams, you're complaining. You can't criticize Lewis, (who I despise and hate to defend), for refusing to play younger players, then criticize him when the younger player turns out to be nowhere near the player the vet was. It's just hypocritical.

At the time i liked that he was doing this, i mean i was not in panic mode when Reggie left, then Shawn
shown that he was not near as good as Reggie. At some point the coaches need to be able to recognize
something special in a player or not. The talent evaluation here has always been questionable.

All i ever want, is for the best players to start which sadly does not happen all the time here.

(11-10-2017, 07:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: At the time i liked that he was doing this, i mean i was not in panic mode when Reggie left, then Shawn
shown that he was not near as good as Reggie. At some point the coaches need to be able to recognize
something special in a player or not. The talent evaluation here has always been questionable.

All i ever want, is for the best players to start which sadly does not happen all the time here.

Reggie Nelson is a special kind of player, we were fortunate that Zimmer was smart enough to snap him up from the scrap heap, and cast him in his proper role.  (on a tangent note, one thing that I always admired about Zimmer was his ability to see a good player, and get the most out of him)

With that said, Reggie Nelson is a tough act to follow.  Especially when you factor in the change in Secondary coach, at the same time it was Williams' turn to be the man.  Now, Williams was always slow to develop, he never "burst" onto the scene, at any point.  However, I did hope that he had matured enough to hold down the position while guys like Derron Smith and Josh Shaw made their way to the ranks.