If you need all the mentioned factors above to go well to be just a borderline top 10 QB, you need a new QB

(11-11-2017, 09:39 PM)eoxyod Wrote: If you need all the mentioned factors above to go well to be just a borderline top 10 QB, you need a new QB

Or alternatively, if you need a top 10 QB to succeed, then you need a better supporting cast on your team. 

We need new Offensive Linemen. There is no doubt about that.

We also need a new QB if we have aspirations to win a SB. If we are satisfied with mediocrity you may as well keep the him. He's not a complete bum.

(11-11-2017, 09:52 PM)treee Wrote: Or alternatively, if you need a top 10 QB to succeed, then you need a better supporting cast on your team. 

Having a better QB allows a greater margin of error elsewhere, since you are filling one spot against about 30

(11-11-2017, 10:26 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Having a better QB allows a greater margin of error elsewhere, since you are filling one spot against about 30

Well it sure as hell can't be a pure pocket passer with what we have now.

(11-11-2017, 10:29 PM)treee Wrote: Well it sure as hell can't be a pure pocket passer with what we have now.

Fortunately we can address 2 issues at the same time

(11-11-2017, 10:55 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Fortunately we can address 2 issues at the same time

Let me guess: A certain QB from UofL?

(11-11-2017, 11:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let me guess: A certain QB from UofL?

I would take the best QB coming out of college, but I know with any of the current coaching staff they would ruin everything that makes him great. I can also take Baker

(11-11-2017, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It was 1991 and the Bengals were coming off another season in which they had failed to make the playoffs. Their 30-year-old QB was coming off his second subpar season and ownership was looking for a change. Despite pleas from their former MVP signal caller to draft for defense or help along the oline; ownership spent the number 6 overall pick in the 1992 NFL draft on a replacement for their aging QB. The Bengal’s selection at QB never started a full season for the Bengals and was out of the NFL entirely after appearing in only 33 games.  The very next pick in the draft was 5-time Pro Bowl/ 3-time All Pro CB Troy Vincent. The following pick was Pro Bowl LT Bob Whitfield who played 220 games in the NFL. The Bengals traded their proven signal caller in after the 92 season and they did not see the playoffs again until 2005 and still have not won a playoff game to date.

It is now 2017 and the Bengals are in the midst of a second straight disappointing season. Our 30-year-old QB is in the middle of his second sub-par season and many are calling for a change at QB. The Bengals appear to be in position to draft one of the top QB prospects in the 2018 draft; however, it would come at the expense of the top olinemen or needed help at DB in the draft.

My position on Andy Dalton has been clear. His poor play is his fault, he doesn't hold his players accountable, and he needs everything around him to click; but when all those things happen he is a borderline Top 10 QB in the NFL. He is still under a team-friendly contract, surrounded by talent at the skill positions, and has a fine defense that is a couple picks away from being elite.

So who wants to go QB early in 2018?

Drafting QB's is kind of a down the road investment. I agree, we need to draft guys that can come in and start right now and be an upgrade.

Plus, QB's are kind of really a low percentage pick. It's basically like wasting a pick.

(11-11-2017, 09:58 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: We need new Offensive Linemen. There is no doubt about that.

We also need a new QB if we have aspirations to win a SB. If we are satisfied with mediocrity you may as well keep the him. He's not a complete bum.

We're soo far away from a Super Bowl. Our #1 priority should be to rebuild the talent on the roster.

(11-12-2017, 12:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're soo far away from a Super Bowl. Our #1 priority should be to rebuild the talent on the roster.

That means new coaches. I’ve never seen anyone ruin raw talent like this.

This is a difficult position to be in. If we have a new coaching staff, then I feel like you let them make the call. If there is a QB available that they feel could be a top 5 QB, then you take him. It is just so hard to find a good QB and so hard to win without one. I say all of this a an avid Dalton supporter. It is much easier to upgrade the line than it is to find a top QB and I feel like we could with a couple FAs and draft picks.

Dalton is a good QB and someone that I feel like is very hard to replace. There are not a lot of good options out there and he has not earned the shit he has received from this fanbase, But, if a new staff sees someone they feel has the potential to be legit then go for it. The Browns for example have waited too long to pull the trigger on a QB because they felt the team wasn't good enough. IF a Carson Wentz is there at our pick take him, instead of trading away because our team has holes elsewhere. **** those holes, they are way easier to fill if we actually used free agency like a real team.

It is weird, as I love Dalton, but I really think you should let you football staff and people make the call on a QB. If they don't think a QB is worth whatever pick we get then stick with Dalton and take the best player available. It very well may blow up in our face, but we really wouldn't be in a different position than we are now.

Unfortunately, this franchise has an owner who meddles way to much and won't ever let the football people make their own decisions.

McGlinchey struggling against Miami's speed. He's not a sure thing Tackle in the draft either.

(11-12-2017, 12:45 AM)MrRager Wrote: This is a difficult position to be in. If we have a new coaching staff, then I feel like you let them make the call. If there is a QB available that they feel could be a top 5 QB, then you take him. It is just so hard to find a good QB and so hard to win without one. I say all of this a an avid Dalton supporter. It is much easier to upgrade the line than it is to find a top QB and I feel like we could with a couple FAs and draft picks.

Dalton is a good QB and someone that I feel like is very hard to replace. There are not a lot of good options out there and he has not earned the shit he has received from this fanbase, But, if a new staff sees someone they feel has the potential to  be legit then go for it. The Browns for example have waited too long to pull the trigger on a QB because they felt the team wasn't good enough. IF a Carson Wentz is there at our pick take him, instead of trading away because our team has holes elsewhere. **** those holes, they are way easier to fill if we actually used free agency like a real team.

It is weird, as I love Dalton, but I really think you should let you football staff and people make the call on a QB. If they don't think a QB is worth whatever pick we get then stick with Dalton and take the best player available.  It very well may blow up in our face, but we really wouldn't be in a different position than we are now.

Unfortunately, this franchise has an owner who meddles way to much and won't ever let the football people make their own decisions.

The Bengals like flash. What did they do this year? They drafted WR and RB when they needed offensive line.

I have no doubt that if a flashy QB prospect is there that they may take them. It depends on a bunch of factors though.

But they could take a QB and trade Dalton to the Redskins or Browns for more draft picks.

I'm not saying I'd do this...but they might.

(11-12-2017, 12:45 AM)MrRager Wrote: This is a difficult position to be in. If we have a new coaching staff, then I feel like you let them make the call. If there is a QB available that they feel could be a top 5 QB, then you take him. It is just so hard to find a good QB and so hard to win without one. I say all of this a an avid Dalton supporter. It is much easier to upgrade the line than it is to find a top QB and I feel like we could with a couple FAs and draft picks.

Dalton is a good QB and someone that I feel like is very hard to replace. There are not a lot of good options out there and he has not earned the shit he has received from this fanbase, But, if a new staff sees someone they feel has the potential to be legit then go for it. The Browns for example have waited too long to pull the trigger on a QB because they felt the team wasn't good enough. IF a Carson Wentz is there at our pick take him, instead of trading away because our team has holes elsewhere. **** those holes, they are way easier to fill if we actually used free agency like a real team.

It is weird, as I love Dalton, but I really think you should let you football staff and people make the call on a QB. If they don't think a QB is worth whatever pick we get then stick with Dalton and take the best player available. It very well may blow up in our face, but we really wouldn't be in a different position than we are now.

Unfortunately, this franchise has an owner who meddles way to much and won't ever let the football people make their own decisions.

This is about where I'm at...although I'm probably more frustrated. 7 years after the Palmer trade saga, we've come full circle. If an entirely new regime came in and wanted their own QB, I'd be cool with that. At the same time, I'd probably pull a Nately and root for Dalton to prove a lot of people wrong who scapegoated him all these years.

We'd also damn well better address this pathetic joke of an o-line, or we'd just be repeating the same mistake for a 3rd time (4th if you count letting the line falling apart for Boomer).

I guess you could say I don't care who the QB is...I just want to see sweeping changes this coming off-season or I'll be just about done. That's not talk.

Marvin has just been going through the emotions the last year. After you lose 7 playoff games without winning one...it zaps you of energy.

re: Dalton - I'd love to see him go to a well managed franchise and win a playoff game. He'd be good on a team like Dallas...not that they need a QB.

(11-12-2017, 01:33 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Marvin has just been going through the emotions the last year. After you lose 7 playoff games without winning one...it zaps you of energy.

re: Dalton - I'd love to see him go to a well managed franchise and win a playoff game. He'd be good on a team like Dallas...not that they need a QB.

I think he'd be good on any team with a competent line and coaching. He'd play like his 2015 self on a team like Dallas. To go from this train wreck to the best line in football? He'd be in Heaven. Throw in Zeke, Dez and Witten? Pfff...

(11-11-2017, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My position on Andy Dalton has been clear. His poor play is his fault, he doesn't hold his players accountable, and he needs everything around him to click; but when all those things happen he is a borderline Top 10 QB in the NFL. He is still under a team-friendly contract, surrounded by talent at the skill positions, and has a fine defense that is a couple picks away from being elite.

So who wants to go QB early in 2018?

"Poor play is Dalton's fault because he needs players to help him."

(11-11-2017, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well these 2 posts kind of contradict each other. Personally I thing Ced has a chance of becoming a serviceable LT it's just we leave him on an island and he's not ready for that yet. Line up strong to his side some of give him a RB to help out. Just as a young QB's confidence can be destroyed so can a young LTs and his would definately be destroyed if he spent any time in here and applied merit to comments provided. Now RG, C, and (depending on Jake's prognosis) RT can be a hard no. 

"Poor play isn't Ogbuehi's fault because they don't give him enough help."



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Just because you draft a QB in first does not mean he will be top 10 or even better than Dalton.

Personally would like OL fixed first. But hey if you can get an elite QB then grab him. They do not grow on trees.

But they also do not get you anywhere without an OL. See Andrew Luck.

Plus we will not have a high enough pick to get our choice of QB's.

If I was going to move on from Dalton. Would trade him for some sweet picks, bolster the trenches and go with AJM and see what he can do.

Think Dalton is fine and it is the OL, lack of running attack and pass protection.

But you could do a lot worse than Dalton imo.

Go get o-linemen. Two in free agency, two in the draft. Nothing will work right until we do that.