(11-21-2017, 01:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Dalton has now played 8 games under Lazor:

147 of 230 (63.9%)
1764 yards (7.67 YPA)
16 TDs
4 INTs
103.2 rating (would be tied for 5th with Aaron Rodgers)
4 TDs per INT

Yes, but those stats are inflated due to our running game and less than 2 yards per rush by running backs.  Any QB could put us these numbers behind this awesome OL. The defense has also been stellar on 3rd down helping us run a lot more offensive plays than most teams. 

Fact - Bengals dead last by 40 less than team #31 -so they are not just bad, but bad against thebad
Fact - Bengals dead last 32nd in T.O.P. at only 26.54 a game (with 1 OT game)

Reality - The offense needs to extend drives by improving on 3rd down while the defense has struggled getting off the field and creating 3 and outs. It is very hard to get an offens ein rhythm sitting on the bench too long.

Dalton is having a very good year in spite of all of these negative facts.

(11-21-2017, 11:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Brady has been getting sacked a lot this year (23 times/Dalton 27), and he’s still having an MVP caliber season.

Who the heck is comparing Dalton to Brady ????  actually what QB can you really compare to Brady ?? probably none,, he as good as it gets All Time.. but the point of my thread is accurate.. Dalton has moved up the QB board since first two games without a running game or much protection. 

There’s a lot to like about Andy Dalton but what impresses me is how he can fit himself into almost any offensive scheme and make it work. At TCU, Andy ran a read-option/Ohio River* hybrid then he quickly mastered the Jay Gruden, Hue Jackson, and Bill Lazor offenses in Cincinnati — and we have to admit Bill’s schemes are works in progress. Ken Zampese doesn’t count because he was a hot mess.

Bill Lazor doesn’t have the luxury of any sort of rushing attack, so it’s up to Andy to get the ball to receivers on timing routes and quick slants. Thankfully he and Bill have come up with a band-aid offense which relies on play action, timing, and bunched up receivers.

Andy is tough. He takes a beating every game and gets up and runs the next play.


*I refuse to call it the West Coast Offense because it was invented here.

(11-21-2017, 01:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The lack of a running game is a killer, no denying that. Stafford seems to be overcoming it though. Lions are 6-4.

Lions - Rank (28th), 3.4 avg, 80. 8 yds/g

Bengals- Rank (32nd), 3.0 avg, 68. 0 yds/g

Stafford has had a QB rating of 100 or more 4 times in his last 8 games, Andy has 5.

Stafford has 13 td's and 4 picks and is 4-4 in his last 8 games, Andy has 16 td's and 4 picks and is 4-4.

Since replacing Zampese, Andy seems to be overcoming it just as well as Stafford.

(11-21-2017, 02:28 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Stafford has had a QB rating of 100 or more 4 times in his last 8 games, Andy has 5.

Stafford has 13 td's and 4 picks and is 4-4 in his last 8 games, Andy has 16 td's and 4 picks and is 4-4.

Since replacing Zampese, Andy seems to be overcoming it just as well as Stafford.

.......well......Stafford doesn't have AJ Green.

(FWIW, Abdullah is getting me good numbers in FF)

(11-21-2017, 02:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: .......well......Stafford doesn't have AJ Green.

(FWIW, Abdullah is getting me good numbers in FF)

Abdullah has only 104 yards less than Mixon, Hill and Gio --- combined. 

The problem imagining Brady in a Bengals uniform is that people are assuming he'd play the exact same way he has for the Patriots and the GOAT coach. Here he'd be playing for Marvin and Zampese/Lazor with the 32nd ranked run game...consistently struggling to get into manageable 3rd down situations. Dalton is often having to use the pass as a substitute for the run, so we're not stuck on 3rd and 11 constantly.

Nobody is saying Dalton = Brady, but Brady wouldn't look like Brady in this situation with this ownership, coaches, line and rush "attack". If some would open their minds, they'd realize this. Brady has only been sacked 40+ times twice, finishing 6th and 17th in passer rating those years. Of course, he had a great run game to take pressure off of him in both of those seasons.

Brady's 2 worst run games were in 2015 (89.9 yards, 3.7 YPC) and 2005 (94.5 yards, 3.4 YPC). Our run game is averaging 68.0 yards on 3.0 YPC. Does that put our run game in perspective?

A line this bad is a burden Brady has never dealt with. He's never been sacked at this rate. He's never had a run game even close to this bad. He's never played for Mike Brown, Marvin and PA. Now imagine him dealing with all of that at once. In a vaccum, I'm definitely taking Brady over Dalton. But I'd take Dalton on the Pats over Brady on the Bengals. The situations are worlds apart, which makes it an unfair comparison.

(11-21-2017, 02:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Abdullah has only 104 yards less than Mixon, Hill and Gio --- combined. 

Yeah I waived Abdullah. He does get a rushing or receiving TD here and there.

I have McCoy, Lamar Miller, and Peterson as my 3rd back.

My WR's are AJ Green, Mike Evans, Tyreke Hill, and Jeffery.

One of Jeffery, Miller, or Peterson ride the bench each week.

(11-21-2017, 02:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: .......well......Stafford doesn't have AJ Green.

(FWIW, Abdullah is getting me good numbers in FF)

Better #2 WR (Marvin Jones) and slightly better run game make up that difference though.

(11-21-2017, 03:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I waived Abdullah. He does get a rushing or receiving TD here and there.

I have McCoy, Lamar Miller, and Peterson as my 3rd back.

My WR's are AJ Green, Mike Evans, Tyreke Hill, and Jeffery.

One of Jeffery, Miller, or Peterson ride the bench each week.

He's been good for 11 or so points a week as a flex/third back.  Been a good pick up off a trade for Dak Prescott as the "other guy" involved.

(11-21-2017, 03:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Better #2 WR (Marvin Jones) and slightly better run game make up that difference though.

I guess I forgot the 

(11-20-2017, 03:24 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And that matters. 
Just like Billings delayed potential greatness when he switched #75 for 99. 

A players real number is life. 

Ask Michael Jordan and Ken Griffey Jr.

(11-21-2017, 04:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: I guess I forgot the 

Andy Dalton has been in the league 7 years and there's one thing I've learned in each of those years:

It's always something besides Andy Dalton that keeps him from being elite.


WTS, Andy has been a very good game manager this year. He allows are D to win the games; they just haven't done it enough.

(11-21-2017, 02:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: .......well......Stafford doesn't have AJ Green.

(FWIW, Abdullah is getting me good numbers in FF)

no he has Tate and Jones

(11-21-2017, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Andy Dalton has been in the league 7 years and there's one thing I've learned in each of those years:

It's always something besides Andy Dalton that keeps him from being elite.


WTS, Andy has been a very good game manager this year. He allows are D to win the games; they just haven't done it enough.

good point.. what QB in the last 7 years would you consider elite ??  I say zero.. i like Wilson a lot but I don;t consider him elite.. do you ??

Stafford.. nope.. Luck nope... etc

I have these QBs at elite " Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, " that is it.. so yes I don't see Dalton as Elite but outside of 4 teams.. 28 other teams can say the same thing.. 

(11-21-2017, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Andy Dalton has been in the league 7 years and there's one thing I've learned in each of those years:

It's always something besides Andy Dalton that keeps him from being elite.


WTS, Andy has been a very good game manager this year. He allows are D to win the games; they just haven't done it enough.

Game manager has a bad motive about it. 

Dalton doesn't have the firepower or line that Big Ben has. Ben has Brown (Best statistical receiver in the NFL), Bell (Best running back in the NFL), Juju Schuster (Best rookie WR), Martavis Bryant (and they barely use him), and a solid offensive line that creates holes. 

Yet, Dalton and him have identical touchdowns, Dalton has two less picks and is short of Big Ben by about 300 yards...

But then again, I'd be hard pressed to call Big Ben elite. 

Ben’s still elite, imo. Numbers aren’t everything in football. He’s clutch when it matters.

(11-22-2017, 01:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ben’s still elite, imo. Numbers aren’t everything in football. He’s clutch when it matters.

Fair. 

That is until you get into an argument with a Brady fan, Patriots fan, LeBron fan, etc.

Numbers tell enough of a story, and in any discussion, numbers should be considered as a side of an argument. I'll agree they should never tell the whole story.


Also, 800th post!

(11-21-2017, 12:28 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Don't look now but after a horrible start with Ravens and Texans.. Andy has moved up the board in two important QB rankings.

he is tied for 9th in TD's with 16 and  15th QB Rating  with 90.00 in the NFL now... not bad after a zero TDs, and 52 rating after first two games plus having the worst running attack in the league and tied for 5th in being Sacked

Wow. He's really on a tear.