(11-23-2017, 01:49 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin Lewis in Prime Time 2nd half scoring stats:

These are games started after 7PM playoffs not included, we already know he's been waxed there.

Overall Record 9 wins 21 loses. Of ML's 9 wins only 3 have come against teams that finished that season above .500 - 06 Ravens/13-3
14 Broncos/12-4  16 Dolphins/10-6

Marvin Lewis lead teams have scored 7 or less points after halftime in 16 prime time games !

Marvin Lewis lead teams have a record of 1 - 6 vs. the Steelers in PT. The lone win being in 2013.

We've been outscored 310 to 264 after half time in PT.

When you break down stats like this it just looks ugly.  If you were an owner and you looked at this resume, would you keep someone around for 15 years?

(11-23-2017, 02:17 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: When you break down stats like this it just looks ugly.  If you were an owner and you looked at this resume, would you keep someone around for 15 years?

Only in Bengal land would a head coach with this mountain of evidence, can't win against your main rival, can't win in playoffs, can't win under the bright lights, can't adjust in game to counter your opponents and score in 2nd half, still have a job.

In 2015 after the 8-0 start we played 4 playoff bound teams in the back half of the season. The Texans, Cardinals, Steelers, and Broncos. We lost all four games !

We were outscored 68 - 33 in the 2nd half and OT in those games. We scored a grand total of 3 points in the 3rd qtr. of those games.

(11-21-2017, 11:53 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Our post half time stats in the ML era are pretty much abysmal ! There's outliers here and there, couple good runs/seasons. But taken overall we suck in crunch time !

Lewis' philosophy has always been, start fast and then play old school fundamental football; run the ball, play field position and defense. Unfortunately (kind of a weird thing to say about winning) it's worked enough that it's cemented as his philosophy. Unfortunately again (this time not weird) is that i don't believe he's capable of adjusting and playing any different on a regular basis.

Like you said, there are outliers where they threw the ball and came back in the 2nd half to win games, but not enough to consider him someone that can adjust and coach his team to play any other way than what his philosophy allows. 

For the life of me, i can't figure out why he doesn't do something simple like treat the start of the 2nd half like the start of the game. 

If you can script the first 15-25 plays of the game, you can do the same thing to start the 2nd half. It takes away the necessity of having to "adjust" and come up with plays you think will work and it keeps you from being predictable in the 2nd half, while the opposition has watched what you did well and adjusted from the 1st half. 

Maybe the thought has never dawned on him? The Bengals aren't exactly innovative. 

In 2016 we played 7 teams who made the playoffs that season, we won a total of one of those games - the Miami Dolphins whom aren't exactly a top tier NFL team. I also added in the Broncos since they finished 9 - 7, here's how we did against those top teams in the 2nd half. 8 games total

In 6 of those games we scored 3 points or less in the 3rd qtr. We were out scored 23 to 38 in the 3rd qtrs.

We were outscored 98 to 60 in the 2nd half of those games. 14 of those 60 2nd half points came in like the last 10 minutes (garbage points) against the cowboys !

Our record in those 8 games against "good teams" was 1 -7

Marvin Lewis has been owned in the 2nd half of every game he's played against good/playoff team over last (what amounts) to two seasons.

(11-21-2017, 11:40 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin Lewis has coached 241 Bengal games to date.

In 100 of those games, yes one hundred, we have scored 7 points or less after half time. What is that 40% ? little more ?

In 26 of those games we've been shut out in the 2nd half.

This is the real quote. Over 40% of the time we score only a TD or less after half. Bunch of BS. I can't believe the QB wouldn't be talking shit about this in closed doors or out in the open.

(11-23-2017, 09:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Lewis' philosophy has always been, start fast and then play old school fundamental football; run the ball, play field position and defense. Unfortunately (kind of a weird thing to say about winning) it's worked enough that it's cemented as his philosophy. Unfortunately again (this time not weird) is that i don't believe he's capable of adjusting and playing any different on a regular basis.

Like you said, there are outliers where they threw the ball and came back in the 2nd half to win games, but not enough to consider him someone that can adjust and coach his team to play any other way than what his philosophy allows. 

Bengals used to look good when the offense was in hurry up and it "appeared" Dalton had more rhythm and control over the play calling. 

(11-21-2017, 12:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: In 15 seasons we only have positive 2nd half scoring in 5 seasons.

04 +17
07 +18
11 +48
13 +51
15 + 35

Funny we've done better in 2nd half scoring under Dalton. Sorry I forgot - he stinks

We're not going to be on the plus side this season. Right now we're -48

In 08 we were -155 !

You’re probably right. Dalton needs to go straight to the Hall of Fame. It probably has zero to do with his star receiver having 1000 yard seasons every year since he’s been in the NFL except the year he was injured. If Green wasn’t here, Dalton is so good that would have been any Joe Smo WR getting 1000 yard seasons and consecutive Pro Bowls.

(11-21-2017, 11:00 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Bengals have never scored an OT touchdown under Marvin.

This one stands out to me. Wow.

(11-21-2017, 11:40 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin Lewis has coached 241 Bengal games to date.

In 100 of those games, yes one hundred, we have scored 7 points or less after half time. What is that 40% ? little more ?

In 26 of those games we've been shut out in the 2nd half.

This one stands out even more. That's pathetic.

(11-23-2017, 02:17 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: When you break down stats like this it just looks ugly.  If you were an owner and you looked at this resume, would you keep someone around for 15 years?

You're assuming Mike has high standards. Mike has very low standards for success.

(11-24-2017, 02:37 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: You’re probably right.  Dalton needs to go straight to the Hall of Fame.  It probably has zero to do with his star receiver having 1000 yard seasons every year since he’s been in the NFL except the year he was injured.  If Green wasn’t here, Dalton is so good that would have been any Joe Smo WR getting 1000 yard seasons and consecutive Pro Bowls.

Lol like Palmer didn't have a WR having 1000 yards every season and a better #2 and run game to boot.

Chad was just as good as AJ Green, I don't care what anyone says. Even if you disagree, it was damn close. Plus Housh, Henry and Rudi.

Funny how no one ever discredited Carson for having weapons when his weapons were better than Andy's.

(11-23-2017, 02:17 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: When you break down stats like this it just looks ugly.  If you were an owner and you looked at this resume, would you keep someone around for 15 years?

Hopefully one (or several) of you will combine all of these Marvin Lewis - 2nd half scoring stats  replies into one long, mind-boggling list and mail it to the Bengal's Front Office.

Frankly, I have made a game of sending my opinions to Mikey, regularly and often, just to see the "boilerplate" blah, blah, that come back. At least some peon in the FO makes the effort to reply.

(11-24-2017, 02:37 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: You’re probably right.  Dalton needs to go straight to the Hall of Fame.  It probably has zero to do with his star receiver having 1000 yard seasons every year since he’s been in the NFL except the year he was injured.  If Green wasn’t here, Dalton is so good that would have been any Joe Smo WR getting 1000 yard seasons and consecutive Pro Bowls.

Because as we all know, if it weren't for Green, Dalton would have exactly 0 yards as he's completely incapable of completing passes to anyone.

(11-24-2017, 05:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Because as we all know, if it weren't for Green, Dalton would have exactly 0 yards as he's completely incapable of completing passes to anyone.

Oh ya, they knew going into the draft they had to get AJ Green or Dalton would be useless ! 

I can think of one game in the Marvin Lewis era where the team kept the pedal to the metal through the fourth quarter: 2009 against da Bears.

(11-24-2017, 08:55 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I can think of one game in the Marvin Lewis era where the team kept the pedal to the metal through the fourth quarter:  2009 against da Bears.

As the saying goes "they're few and far between". 

And that's the point of this thread really. It's not just a convenient narrative used against Marvin, It's very true ! Marvin regularly gets out coached, out planned, out adjusted after half time. The frequency with which it happens against good teams, in the playoffs, prime time etc. is even worse.

Marvin's conservative, play not to lose style is very real and one of the main reasons we get beat when it matters most !

(11-24-2017, 03:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This one stands out to me. Wow.


This one stands out even more. That's pathetic.


You're assuming Mike has high standards. Mike has very low standards for success.


Lol like Palmer didn't have a WR having 1000 yards every season and a better #2 and run game to boot.

Chad was just as good as AJ Green, I don't care what anyone says. Even if you disagree, it was damn close. Plus Housh, Henry and Rudi.

Funny how no one ever discredited Carson for having weapons when his weapons were better than Andy's.

Funny...both of these “great” wrs that Palmer had went elsewhere and didn’t do jack shit. Palmer had a better o-line 2005-2006 and no where near as good of defense as Andy had. Andy has had way more of a team built around him than Palmer ever had. Carson could have easily won a playoff game with any of the teams that Andy had in the playoffs.

(11-25-2017, 02:57 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Funny...both of these “great” wrs that Palmer had went elsewhere and didn’t do jack shit.  Palmer had a better o-line 2005-2006 and no where near as good of defense as Andy had.  Andy has had way more of a team built around him than Palmer ever had.  Carson could have easily won a playoff game with any of the teams that Andy had in the playoffs.

You do realize that Chad had 2 of his best seasons with Jon Kitna at QB...right? And Housh had 79 catches for over 900 yards in Seattle. 

With that, I'm done responding. This isn't an Andy thread.

(11-25-2017, 04:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You do realize that Chad had 2 of his best seasons with Jon Kitna at QB...right? And Housh had 79 catches for over 900 yards in Seattle. 

With that, I'm done responding. This isn't an Andy thread.

That’s fine don’t respond. Jon Kitna had a great offensive line. Yes it’s not an Andy thread but we can’t stick our heads in the sand and pretend like Marvin Lewis’s 2nd half stats have zero to do with the guy piloting the ship on offense. People complain about how terrible Marvin Lewis and staff are at everything yet think they’ve got the single most important position on the field correct. A few years from now when Andy is gone (without a single playoff win) people will look back and realize how silly it was thinking Andy has what’s needed to take us all the way. I hope I’m proven wrong and we get a new coaching staff and that they keep Andy and he plays up to all the Andy apologists hype.

(11-25-2017, 01:47 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: That’s fine don’t respond.  Jon Kitna had a great offensive line.  Yes it’s not an Andy thread but we can’t stick our heads in the sand and pretend like Marvin Lewis’s 2nd half stats have zero to do with the guy piloting the ship on offense.  People complain about how terrible Marvin Lewis and staff are at everything yet think they’ve got the single most important position on the field correct.  A few years from now when Andy is gone (without a single playoff win)  people  will look back and realize how silly it was thinking Andy has what’s needed to take us all the way.  I hope I’m proven wrong and we get a new coaching staff and that they keep Andy and he plays up to all the Andy apologists hype.

You need to also realize that from 2003 - 2010 one Andy Dalton was not the QB of the Bengals and Marvin Lewis led Bengal Teams did even worse in 2nd half scoring than with Dalton. We had two playoff loses that are mirror images of the Dalton era loses.

We lost to the Steelers the same way we do now under Dalton. We lost in prime time the same way, we lost when it really counted before Dalton.

Fact is the problem hasn't been Dalton, nor was it Palmer. But ignore the evidence and I'll stick my head back in the sand.

(11-21-2017, 12:21 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin Lewis has been our head coach for 15 seasons now, as you know. Including playoffs he's coached 241 games. These stats include playoff games and overtime scoring.

In those games we have been outscored in the 2nd half 2,736 - 2,465 ! A 271 point deficit.

We've been outscored in the 2nd half in playoff games 96 to 29. We've averaged scoring 4.1 points after halftime while giving up 13.7 points. We were shut out in the 2nd half in four of the playoff games and scored 7 or less in two more.

So far this season we've been outscored 102 to 54 in the 2nd half ! We've been shut out in the 2nd half three games so far this season. And scored 7 points or less in seven games.

But we all know halftime adjustments are media fantasy, right ?  

More eyeopeners to follow:

WOW! Those are whopping bad numbers.

Other teams make adjustments as the game goes on, we all know that. I guess there will be times when the team reaches in its bag of tricks and can't find anything it thinks will work, but with a HC with 15 years on the job you would think they'd at least have a decent sized bag of tricks by now.