(12-12-2017, 03:47 PM)Benton Wrote: It takes a back time to settle into a rhythm. Sometimes when teams try to balance the load, it's like they're stifling someone heating  up and forcing someone playing cold. I'd look to alternate their play based off who is heating up that day.

That may mean Mixon gets around 80% of the touches each game for a couple weeks, and then Gio gets 70% for a couple. But not a set 'you're only playing every third down' or 'you're the starter.'

I don't think it has to be in stone, just go with who is making plays that day.

Completely agree with all of this, both these backs are looking good right now. Give the one who is getting that rhythm
going the rock the majority of the time. I have no favorites here but i also agree with Sunset here that Mixon needs reps
more-so than good ole Gio, especially in pass pro and now that we are out of the Playoffs.

(12-12-2017, 03:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As the others have mentioned, the "hot hand" is both of them lately.  The difference has been that running lanes have finally been opening, for whomever has the ball in their hands.

If Joe is to be the featured back, going forward, then he needs the experience and the pass pro reps.  We already know exactly what Gio can do, I'm just happy he made the full recovery with his knee.

:andy:

(12-12-2017, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So O-lineman are not players and have nothing to do with the RB's success?

Makes no sense.

They are playing about equal right now just like Shake said. Give them carries accordingly.

Sure they have a bit to do with it. How many of Walter Peyton's olinemen are in the HOF?

Seems equal load was something folks were opposed to earlier in the year. But now Gio outperforms Joe and folks want to take the ball out of his hands.

IMO, Gio has earned and should get the bulk of the carries.

Id rather see them split time at this point, with more of the kid Hill in there as well. Fewer plays each have, fewer chances of an injury happening. Then they can be both ready to go next year.

But lets say they are a playoff team and this is the final stretch for said playoffs, I would go a bit more Mixon as the primary rb. HOWEVER, I would get Gio out there as a receiver as much as possible even if Mixon is in the backfield. That means Gio would get more snaps overall, but some would be out of the slot so to speak. Not using Gio in the passing game is criminal with who they have out there right now.

(12-12-2017, 03:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Debatable.

Mixon had 34 touches for 207 yards and a TD in less than a game and a half.
Gio had 32 touches for 226 yards and 0 TDs in 2 full games.

Better yards per touch for Gio, but didn't handle the load Mixon did and didn't score, either. I know you value TDs with Hill, so surely you value them here as well.

Looks about equal to me.

I have zero idea how anyone could look at those numbers and say "debatable". Mixon's 1 TD does give him some credit; but I not sure it makes an advantage of 1 yard more per touch a "toss up". But your opinion of "about equal" has been noted.

(12-12-2017, 04:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Have zero idea what state I am twisting. Did you want me to make up carries for GIO? I can only use what is provided. And from the stats provided Gio has and is doing a much better job than Joe when allowed to take the bulk of the carries.


Not sure what I am wrong about; as I have said all year the Joe should have to earn the starting role and that Gio has performed better. I think it was someone on these boards that told me Gio only had a higher YPC than Mixon because he doesn't have as many touches and if Gio were to ever have to carry the load his YPC would "drop like a rock".

Yep, silly me cannot admit to being wrong.

Eh, you clearly have your favorites Bfine and you like to play favorites. Gio is one of your favorites right now and there
is nothing wrong with that. I like both of these backs but in my eyes Mixon is the rarer talent and if he continues to run
well as Shake has shown he has been running well lately, he should get the bulk.

Depends on who is the hot RB at the time though.

To not mention the O-line is perplexing, they are the REAL reason why these backs are running well right now.

They had no holes till the Browns game when they started to run block more aggressively. Hard for me to blame Mixon
before that game. Have to look at how the O-line is blocking now along with how these backs are running. It is not just
one or the other, there is more to it than that.

(12-12-2017, 04:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, you clearly have your favorites Bfine and you like to play favorites. Gio is one of your favorites right now and there
is nothing wrong with that. I like both of these backs but in my eyes Mixon is the rarer talent and if he continues to run
well as Shake has shown he has been running well lately, he should get the bulk.

Depends on who is the hot RB at the time though.

To not mention the O-line is perplexing, they are the REAL reason why these backs are running well right now.

They had no holes till the Browns game when they started to run block more aggressively. Hard for me to blame Mixon
before that game. Have to look at how the O-line is blocking now along with how these backs are running. It is not just
one or the other, there is more to it than that.

My favorite is the one that is performing better.

Why was Gio's YPC so much better that Mixon's before the Cleveland game if the Cleveland game was a turning point? It cannot be because Gio got fewer carries as that goes entirely against what I was told earlier in the year when I thought GIo should be getting the carries.

But it's typical Marvin, starting the Rookie over the vet until it's too late.

(12-12-2017, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My favorite is the one that is performing better.

Why was Gio's YPC so much better that Mixon's before the Cleveland game if the Cleveland game was a turning point? It cannot be because Gio got fewer carries as that goes entirely against what I was told earlier in the year when I thought GIo should be getting the carries.

But it's typical Marvin, starting the Rookie over the vet until it's too late.

I definately agree with that. The one that is performing better should get the most snaps.

Right now they are pretty equal though as the stats show that Shake provided.

Gio's YPC wasn't good either before the Cleveland game.

Actually starting the Rookie over the Vet is not something we see a lot of under Marv and i actually agree with
it to a point with Gio coming off of injury and Hill also not having a good YPC. Mixon is good in the passing game
just like Gio but has the size to dish out some punishment.

I have been calling for more of both of these backs out there at the same time all year. Both can line up in the
Slot Receiver position, thought this would be a great way to get both of them more snaps and keep the Offense
from being too predictable.

(12-12-2017, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My favorite is the one that is performing better.

Why was Gio's YPC so much better that Mixon's before the Cleveland game if the Cleveland game was a turning point? It cannot be because Gio got fewer carries as that goes entirely against what I was told earlier in the year when I thought GIo should be getting the carries.

But it's typical Marvin, starting the Rookie over the vet until it's too late.

If your favorite was simply whoever is performing better, why weren't you creating threads trumpeting Mixon after the Browns game? You were big on Hill when the season started and now you're big on Gio. I don't think you've said a positive word about Mixon all year long. It is what it is.

As for the line, I'm not sure why you're so stubborn on this.

Gio before Browns game? 3.5 YPC. 
Gio since? 5.6 YPC

Mixon before Browns game? 2.9 YPC
Mixon since? 4.9 YPC

Both went from varying levels of "bad" to "excellent". I don't care who starts or who gets the most carries. I'd just like to see you admit the line was seemingly the problem all along. The numbers certainly suggest as much. Both backs have seen an increase in YPC of at least 2 yards per tote. That's incredible. If it's not the line, I'd love to hear what you think it is.

(12-11-2017, 10:55 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Ever since Fan in Kettering mentioned the change in blocking scheme both backs have had nice running room. I’d like to see 60/40 Mixon/Gio, or somewhere around there.

Good coaching would play them appropriately. Just not in Cincy.

I have thought that Bernard should get the larger amount of carries for years, yet they’ve still kept Hill in there no matter how much he was stinking up the run game.

No reason to think it won’t happen with Mixon too, especially since Mixon looks to be a lot better than Hill.

I would be happy with seeing Bernard get 50% or more of our RB touches, but I don’t think it’ll happen.

(12-12-2017, 10:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If your favorite was simply whoever is performing better, why weren't you creating threads trumpeting Mixon after the Browns game? You were big on Hill when the season started and now you're big on Gio. I don't think you've said a positive word about Mixon all year long. It is what it is.

As for the line, I'm not sure why you're so stubborn on this.

Gio before Browns game? 3.5 YPC. 
Gio since? 5.6 YPC

Mixon before Browns game? 2.9 YPC
Mixon since? 4.9 YPC

Both went from varying levels of "bad" to "excellent". I don't care who starts or who gets the most carries. I'd just like to see you admit the line was seemingly the problem all along. The numbers certainly suggest as much. Both backs have seen an increase in YPC of at least 2 yards per tote. That's incredible. If it's not the line, I'd love to hear what you think it is.

So both before and after the Cleveland game Gio was averaging over 1/2 yard per carry more than Mixon while all along I suggest Gio may have been the better choice and "I'm stubborn"? Classic.

I think I've mentioned numerous times why I think it is, but as you would love to her it; I'll share it again and type slowly: I think in the 2017 NFL football season that Gio Bernard would have been a better choice to get the majority of the carries than Joe Mixon. Once Gio has been given the bulk of the carries he has excelled. Even though some "non-stubborn" board member assured me his numbers would drop like a rock.  

My opinion has not changed since the start of the season.  I gave Joe many props after the Cleveland game and defended him against the "well it was just Cleveland crowd". Do you know anybody who said something along those lines?

(12-12-2017, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But it's typical Marvin, starting the Rookie over the vet until it's too late.

That doesn’t seem like Marvin at all. If anything, he seems to leave veteran players in too long when his younger guys could potentially have a bigger impact.

(12-12-2017, 10:46 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: That doesn’t seem like Marvin at all. If anything, he seems to leave veteran players in too long when his younger guys could potentially have a bigger impact.

Yeah, I just don't do those ninja thingys. 

(12-11-2017, 11:18 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Mixon with the bulk of the carries he has a 230 pound frame. Gio needs touches cause he is a play maker but his 210 pound frame cant carry the bulk of the carries throughout the year. I love both backs and they need to release the guy they just signed and bring up Jarveon Williams from our practice squad.

Marshawn Lynch: 215 lbs
Ray Rice: 206 lbs
LeSean McCoy: 210 lbs
Chris Johnson: 203 lbs
Maurice Jones-Drew: 210 lbs
Thomas Jones: 212 lbs
LaDainian Tomlinson: 215 lbs


Being 210 isn't really an eliminating factor on being able to carry the bulk of the carries. It's all based on the individual player. Those are all fairly recent examples, too. If I wanted to go even a little over a decade further back I could point out that Barry Sanders was 200 lbs and had 300+ carries 5 straight years to finish his career.

(12-12-2017, 10:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So both before and after the Cleveland game Gio was averaging over 1/2 yard per carry more than Mixon while all along I suggest Gio may have been the better choice and "I'm stubborn"? Classic.

I think I've mentioned numerous times why I think it is, but as you would love to her it; I'll share it again and type slowly: I think in the 2017 NFL football season that Gio Bernard would have been a better choice to get the majority of the carries than Joe Mixon. Once Gio has been given the bulk of the carries he has excelled. Even though some "non-stubborn" board member assured me his numbers would drop like a rock.  

My opinion has not changed since the start of the season.  I gave Joe many props after the Cleveland game and defended him against the "well it was just Cleveland crowd". Do you know anybody who said something along those lines?

So what do you make of this: 

Gio before Browns game? 3.5 YPC. 
Gio since? 5.6 YPC

Mixon before Browns game? 2.9 YPC
Mixon since? 4.9 YPC

Still seems you're dancing around the o-line topic and just want to focus on the backs as if they're somehow independent and don't rely on blocking. As if the above numbers aren't extremely telling. Maybe both Gio and Mixon both figured out how to "get skinny" at the exact same time. 

(12-12-2017, 11:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Marshawn Lynch: 215 lbs
Ray Rice: 206 lbs
LeSean McCoy: 210 lbs
Chris Johnson: 203 lbs
Maurice Jones-Drew: 210 lbs
Thomas Jones: 212 lbs
LaDainian Tomlinson: 215 lbs


Being 210 isn't really an eliminating factor on being able to carry the bulk of the carries. It's all based on the individual player. Those are all fairly recent examples, too. If I wanted to go even a little over a decade further back I could point out that Barry Sanders was 200 lbs and had 300+ carries 5 straight years to finish his career.

Currently, half of the top 10 RBs in the NFL (yards) come in at 215 or less. 

(12-12-2017, 10:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If your favorite was simply whoever is performing better, why weren't you creating threads trumpeting Mixon after the Browns game? You were big on Hill when the season started and now you're big on Gio. I don't think you've said a positive word about Mixon all year long. It is what it is.

As for the line, I'm not sure why you're so stubborn on this.

Gio before Browns game? 3.5 YPC. 
Gio since? 5.6 YPC

Mixon before Browns game? 2.9 YPC
Mixon since? 4.9 YPC

Both went from varying levels of "bad" to "excellent". I don't care who starts or who gets the most carries. I'd just like to see you admit the line was seemingly the problem all along. The numbers certainly suggest as much. Both backs have seen an increase in YPC of at least 2 yards per tote. That's incredible. If it's not the line, I'd love to hear what you think it is.

The blocking scheme has most certainly helped (and maybe opponents, who knows) but that's still...


Before Browns: Gio +0.6 YPC
Since: Gio +0.7 YPC

The difference between the two RBs is still about the same, and still handily in Gio's favor. BJGE in '13, Hill in '15, and now Mixon in '17. Doing better than them, but still stuck as second fiddle. I still think if Gio had gone to the Saints or Patriots, he'd be a slightly lesser LeSean McCoy running-wise, with Darren Sproles-like receiving.

(12-12-2017, 10:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I just don't do those ninja thingys. 

For someone that uses sarcasm in posts frequently, I can be bad at picking up on it.  Considering that it's you, I feel even more shameful that I didn't get it.

(12-11-2017, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: .......as our feature back when he returns?

Early in the season folks were mad that Mixon wasn't getting enough carries; heck, I think Mixon even complained about it publicly.

In Benard's 2 complete games as feature back Gio has 24 carries for 139 yards (5.8 YPC)

In Mixon's 11 complete games as our feature back Joe has 150 carries for 484 yards (3.2 YPC)

So what think we going forward?

Think Mixon should definitely be the starter still with how he was running the last 2 games

But GIO has to get more touches than he was.  (I think they might have been using him sparingly to make sure he was healthy...  but hes proven capable)

(12-11-2017, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: .......as our feature back when he returns?

Early in the season folks were mad that Mixon wasn't getting enough carries; heck, I think Mixon even complained about it publicly.

In Benard's 2 complete games as feature back Gio has 24 carries for 139 yards (5.8 YPC)

In Mixon's 11 complete games as our feature back Joe has 150 carries for 484 yards (3.2 YPC)

So what think we going forward?

Blocking in general has been better as of late, so I'm not getting sucked in to the YPC thing. What I will say is I think the plan from now going forward until Gio is gone should be Mixon as the lead and Gio his spell with a 60/40 or 70/30 split.