Everyone seems to like the changes so far with the exception of the obvious but it's pretty clear ML was finally givin more control. I find it alarming that a 15 year coach has finally been trusted to call some of the shots. My question is more about MB than Marvin, but let's say we win the AFC or SB within two years. Will this be all the proof you need to be convinced that MB has been the one to blame since taking over. If you like Marvin or not it doesn't matter, these next 2 years may be the most crucial in the next 25 years. I don't see him giving this amount of control to the next coach right away. Personally I think Marvin should have been gone years ago, but the current situation might be a blessing in disguise.

Mike Brown being stubborn and waiting this long to give a coach the tools they feel they need to succeed only make makes the case for a GM stronger. Also proves the narrative that Mike Brown is not committed to winning. As for Katie, I wouldn't expect anything other than what we've seen over the past 1/4 century.

(01-13-2018, 03:05 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Everyone seems to like the changes so far with the exception of the obvious but it's pretty clear ML was finally givin more control. I find it alarming that a 15 year coach has finally been trusted to call some of the shots. My question is more about MB than Marvin, but let's say we win the AFC or SB within two years. Will this be all the proof you need to be convinced that MB has been the one to blame since taking over. If you like Marvin or not it doesn't matter, these next 2 years may be the most crucial in the next 25 years. I don't see him giving this amount of control to the next coach right away. Personally I think Marvin should have been gone years ago, but the current situation might be a blessing in disguise.

Mike Brown being stubborn and waiting this long to give a coach the tools they feel they need to succeed only make makes the case for a GM stronger. Also proves the narrative that Mike Brown is not committed to winning. As for Katie, I wouldn't expect anything other than what we've seen over the past 1/4 century.

I think that Mike is deserving of plenty of blame, but the staff isn't one of them. Marvin has bringing in his own people for years, and promoting people from within the staff for years.

This offseason was very unique because every coach on the staff was without a contract and they were coming off 2 losing seasons. It gave Marvin the perfect chance to revamp the staff.

One of the issues I have (seriously, I do) is with all the ex-steeler coaches coming to town. I'm trying to talk my way off the "Trojan Horse" ledge. Thoughts reminiscent that of something I heard once about radical Muslim beliefs that the best way to defeat a country is from within (probably not close to accurate, but seriously, I heard that somewhere). So, with those 2 examples you can kinda see where the conspiracy thinking is coming from.

However, there is a little voice inside my head (believe me, there are many) which is telling me that Marvin is bringing in all these ex's as a way to plan against them. The more knowledge and experience you have from all levels of that organization, might actually help you gameplan against them and bring them down. Then again, if the general leading this wage of war on the steelers is Marvin? Well, we are screwed anyway because even with all the assistance in game planning. He's just not that good of a game planner or game manager. Hell, he's really not that good at a lot of things it takes to win. His flaws are countless.

I guess we wont know until we get through half the season next year on where we stand. I hope we are dominant and kick butt in primetime, win playoff GAMES and even make it to the SB at the end of the season. But if we make it? We can't lose this one.

Geez, I just talked our way to a SB? I have to get real and pour the koolade down the drain and open a beer and get real.

(01-13-2018, 03:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: One of the issues I have (seriously, I do) is with all the ex-steeler coaches coming to town. I'm trying to talk my way off the "Trojan Horse" ledge. Thoughts reminiscent that of something I heard once about radical Muslim beliefs that the best way to defeat a country is from within (probably not close to accurate, but seriously, I heard that somewhere). So, with those 2 examples you can kinda see where the conspiracy thinking is coming from.

However, there is a little voice inside my head (believe me, there are many) which is telling me that Marvin is bringing in all these ex's as a way to plan against them. The more knowledge and experience you have from all levels of that organization, might actually help you gameplan against them and bring them down. Then again, if the general leading this wage of war on the steelers is Marvin? Well, we are screwed anyway because even with all the assistance in game planning. He's just not that good of a game planner or game manager. Hell, he's really not that good at a lot of things it takes to win. His flaws are countless.

I guess we wont know until we get through half the season next year on where we stand. I hope we are dominant and kick butt in primetime, win playoff GAMES and even make it to the SB at the end of the season. But if we make it? We can't lose this one.

Geez, I just talked our way to a SB? I have to get real and pour the koolade down the drain and open a beer and get real.

Why on earth would the Steelers opt for a long con Trojan horse strategy when they kick our butts year in and year out as it is lol.

At the end of the day these people are professionals and they have little actual allegiance to the franchises themselves outside of their buddies who work there.

(01-13-2018, 04:06 PM)Slythe Wrote: Why on earth would the Steelers opt for a long con Trojan horse strategy when they kick our butts year in and year out as it is lol.

It's that type of thinking that makes it work!

Think about it!

(01-13-2018, 03:05 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Everyone seems to like the changes so far with the exception of the obvious but it's pretty clear ML was finally givin more control. I find it alarming that a 15 year coach has finally been trusted to call some of the shots. My question is more about MB than Marvin, but let's say we win the AFC or SB within two years. Will this be all the proof you need to be convinced that MB has been the one to blame since taking over.

Mike Brown being stubborn and waiting this long to give a coach the tools they feel they need to succeed only make makes the case for a GM stronger. Also proves the narrative that Mike Brown is not committed to winning. As for Katie, I wouldn't expect anything other than what we've seen over the past 1/4 century.

Who thinks Mike Brown is not mostly to blame? It's obvious that as the owner, he makes the decisions. It's also obvious that, no matter how much people want to stomp their feet and demand a new owner, it is not going to happen. The Browns own this team, and the Browns will always own this team, until they decide they don't want to anymore, and that will never happen while MB is alive (and possibly Katie). And, when they do decide to sell it, Cincinnati can kiss the team goodbye. 
Might just as well complain about the weather, neither will change because people complain..... and, FWIW, I definitely think MB desperately wants a World Championship, he just doesn't know how to get it and is too proud to admit it and give up control.

(01-13-2018, 03:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: One of the issues I have (seriously, I do) is with all the ex-steeler coaches coming to town. I'm trying to talk my way off the "Trojan Horse" ledge. Thoughts reminiscent that of something I heard once about radical Muslim beliefs that the best way to defeat a country is from within (probably not close to accurate, but seriously, I heard that somewhere). So, with those 2 examples you can kinda see where the conspiracy thinking is coming from.

However, there is a little voice inside my head (believe me, there are many) which is telling me that Marvin is bringing in all these ex's as a way to plan against them. The more knowledge and experience you have from all levels of that organization, might actually help you gameplan against them and bring them down. Then again, if the general leading this wage of war on the steelers is Marvin? Well, we are screwed anyway because even with all the assistance in game planning. He's just not that good of a game planner or game manager. Hell, he's really not that good at a lot of things it takes to win. His flaws are countless.

I guess we wont know until we get through half the season next year on where we stand. I hope we are dominant and kick butt in primetime, win playoff GAMES and even make it to the SB at the end of the season. But if we make it? We can't lose this one.

Geez, I just talked our way to a SB? I have to get real and pour the koolade down the drain and open a beer and get real.

Trojan Smojan.... these coaches don't have loyalty to Crapsburgh, they are out to make money. They do that by coaching taking their respective teams deep into the playoffs and advancing their careers as coaches... from position coaches to Co-ordinators, from Co-ordinators to HC's. You don't do that by losing. If anything, the knowledge they bring ABOUT Pitt will be helpful...

(01-13-2018, 04:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Who thinks Mike Brown is not mostly to blame? It's obvious that as the owner, he makes the decisions. It's also obvious that, no matter how much people want to stomp their feet and demand a new owner, it is not going to happen. The Browns own this team, and the Browns will always own this team, until they decide they don't want to anymore, and that will never happen while MB is alive (and possibly Katie). And, when they do decide to sell it, Cincinnati can kiss the team goodbye. 
Might just as well complain about the weather, neither will change because people complain..... and, FWIW, I definitely think MB desperately wants a World Championship, he just doesn't know how to get it and is too proud to admit it and give up control.

If he's too damn stupid/stubborn to ask for help when it's painfully obvious he needs it, then he deserves to leave this life without a championship, as he most assuredly will.  I won't feel a bit sorry for him or his family when he does, just for all the dedicated fans who lived and died with this team over the decades and who never got to celebrate a championship.  I see a couple sometimes in the club lounge, they must be in their 80s, and you know they've been around this franchise since day one.  It really pisses me off to think that stupid, foolish old man has robbed them of ever seeing a championship.  **** him.  

(01-13-2018, 03:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think that Mike is deserving of plenty of blame, but the staff isn't one of them. Marvin has bringing in his own people for years, and promoting people from within the staff for years.

This offseason was very unique because every coach on the staff was without a contract and they were coming off 2 losing seasons. It gave Marvin the perfect chance to revamp the staff.

A convenient excuse to re-up Marvin. YIKES!

(01-13-2018, 04:30 PM)Derrick Wrote: A convenient excuse to re-up Marvin. YIKES!

 Like Paul Dehner said, "The biggest draw in retaining Marvin Lewis was his ability to fill out an impressive staff" and "he's almost always been able to pull talented staffs".

People can disagree about how talented Marvin's staffs have or haven't been, but they were Marvin's staffs.

(01-13-2018, 04:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:  Like Paul Dehner said, "The biggest draw in retaining Marvin Lewis was his ability to fill out an impressive staff" and "he's almost always been able to pull talented staffs".

People can disagree about how talented Marvin's staffs have or haven't been, but they were Marvin's staffs.

Yeah but was he the one keeping Paul Alexander, or was that Brown's BS?  As we have seen an outdated scheme mixed with subpar players can doom a staff no matter how talented. 

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves, then Mervin will leave, and not before.” -Dark magic lady, Game of Thrones

(01-13-2018, 08:13 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Yeah but was he the one keeping Paul Alexander, or was that Brown's BS?  As we have seen an outdated scheme mixed with subpar players can doom a staff no matter how talented. 

That's the point I was trying to get at. Some seem to think that Marvin has just now gained the ability to pick/control his own staff, but the reality is that Marvin has always brought in his own guys. 

Even in the case of Alexander, I think it was a combination of both. Marvin promoted him when he got hired in 2003 because Buffalo wanted to interview him, and he talked about that a few years later - which I posted in one of the other threads - about how important Alexander was to him, and Mike's always loved him some Alexander and has always been very content with him.

Like I said earlier, Mike deserves blame for a lot of things, but the coaching staff isn't one of them.

(01-13-2018, 03:58 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: One of the issues I have (seriously, I do) is with all the ex-steeler coaches coming to town. I'm trying to talk my way off the "Trojan Horse" ledge. Thoughts reminiscent that of something I heard once about radical Muslim beliefs that the best way to defeat a country is from within (probably not close to accurate, but seriously, I heard that somewhere). So, with those 2 examples you can kinda see where the conspiracy thinking is coming from.

However, there is a little voice inside my head (believe me, there are many) which is telling me that Marvin is bringing in all these ex's as a way to plan against them. The more knowledge and experience you have from all levels of that organization, might actually help you gameplan against them and bring them down. Then again, if the general leading this wage of war on the steelers is Marvin? Well, we are screwed anyway because even with all the assistance in game planning. He's just not that good of a game planner or game manager. Hell, he's really not that good at a lot of things it takes to win. His flaws are countless.

I guess we wont know until we get through half the season next year on where we stand. I hope we are dominant and kick butt in primetime, win playoff GAMES and even make it to the SB at the end of the season. But if we make it? We can't lose this one.

Geez, I just talked our way to a SB? I have to get real and pour the koolade down the drain and open a beer and get real.

There are quite a few coaches that come from the western PA area. They do alot of coaching clincs and the high schools teach excellent fundemental football. I live in the tri state area just south of the PA border and the high schools hire coaches from the western PA area alot.

(01-13-2018, 08:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's the point I was trying to get at. Some seem to think that Marvin has just now gained the ability to pick/control his own staff, but the reality is that Marvin has always brought in his own guys.

Even in the case of Alexander, I think it was a combination of both. Marvin promoted him when he got hired in 2003 because Buffalo wanted to interview him, and he talked about that a few years later - which I posted in one of the other threads - about how important Alexander was to him, and Mike's always loved him some Alexander and has always been very content with him.


Like I said earlier, Mike deserves blame for a lot of things, but the coaching staff isn't one of them.

Eh.  I still like to believe that move, and many more with Alexander, came with Mike Brown looming in the shadows.

No way a position coach staffer goes that many years with such futile productivity.

You're probably correct in all other areas though.

When Marvin leave ?

When Hell freezes over !

Pulling for him and his new staff to prove MB has held Bengals back for years with a big season.

(01-13-2018, 10:46 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Pulling for him and his new staff to prove MB has held Bengals back for years with a big season.

Might be the only way for Marvin to save his legacy.

(01-13-2018, 10:46 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Pulling for him and his new staff to prove MB has held Bengals back for years with a big season.

Is there any proof Marvin was even givin more control to pick his staff. We all know Mike doesn't like change, who's to say Mike isn't the one to make the demands. You still want to coach Marvin, well you've had 15 years, I'll pay you 4 million again but I'm picking the coordinators.

A successful franchise wouldn't allow a 15 year coach with his record not under contract make demands. Insane just thinking about this.

Once again get out your old Zager and Evans record.. In the year 2525......