(02-09-2018, 10:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: There was a LB though.....

Even though he saw more playing time than Ross, he missed games because of an injury and was suspended for a banned substance...

(02-09-2018, 12:53 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Even though he saw more playing time than Ross, he missed games because of an injury and was suspended for a banned substance...

They should have taken Barnett.

(02-09-2018, 12:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: A good DE, too. Who made a huge play in the Super Bowl.

True dat.....I guess Lawson's play kinda eases that pain, but he sure would have been a nice addition.

(02-09-2018, 01:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: True dat.....I guess Lawson's play kinda eases that pain, but he sure would have been a nice addition.

Kind of makes you wonder about the scouting reports. If I remember right they said, wasn't athletic enough even though he had great production at Tennessee. 

(02-09-2018, 01:00 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: True dat.....I guess Lawson's play kinda eases that pain, but he sure would have been a nice addition.

He certainly did. Lawson actually had 3.5 more sacks than Barnett. I just really like Barnett. It would be awesome to have both.

(02-09-2018, 01:07 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Kind of makes you wonder about the scouting reports. If I remember right they said, wasn't athletic enough even though he had great production at Tennessee. 

I honestly don't recall, but if that is the case.....I gotta disagree.  Dude broke Reggie White's numbers didn't he?

(02-09-2018, 01:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He certainly did. Lawson actually had 3.5 more sacks than Barnett. I just really like Barnett. It would be awesome to have both.

Damn right.  I liked Barnett as well.  Ah well, at least we have a combine record holder on the team.

(02-09-2018, 01:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: I honestly don't recall, but if that is the case.....I gotta disagree.  Dude broke Reggie White's numbers didn't he?


Damn right.  I liked Barnett as well.  Ah well, at least we have a combine record holder on the team.

Yes he did break Reggie White numbers. That is why I thought it was odd, for someone to say, his athleticism didn't match his production....
Just for the record though, I wanted Ross, Foster or Barnett at #9 last year.

(02-09-2018, 11:19 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Except in playoffs and only in last several years. 

Which many coaches moved on from the earlier years that are carrying these 8 years of stats. Please note that Marvin has been here longer than 8 years and Zimmer may have been the x-factor in those years. 

If there is a reason Marvin held Ross out he should explain that he was not ready, or whatever. 

Remember last season, think it was PG that said he was going to sit players and play younger ones per lack of production by vets. 

Marvin came out next day and said he had misspoken and the vets would remain in. 

He needs to learn that today's NFL is won by mixing vets with solid young players still on rookie pay scale to make best team possible.

Especially when playing millions under the cap.

Great post, completely agree Go Cards.

Marv also needs to learn to play somewhat aggressive in the 2nd halves of games. Over the last 2 years we have been by
far the worst 2nd half team in the NFL Offensively. Too bad Marv is an old dog that i don't think can learn new tricks.

Hope i am wrong.

The one real hope i have is with Pollack, if he can get this O-line run blocking well. If we can run the ball the conservative
approach could work. We have the RB's already in place.

(02-09-2018, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't be serious. 

Mike Brown with Marvin Lewis as head coach...  .527 win%..... 5 losing seasons in 15 years
Mike Brown with all other head coaches...........  .303 win%..... 11 losing seasons in 12 years

The Bengals never had the best roster in the NFL.  When they had a good roster they played well and made the playoffs.  It is amazing that you noticed all the coaches leaving but were unaware that a lot of talented players left also.  Gee I wonder why that is?

Mike Zimmer was a Defensive coordinator for 8 years and never made the playoffs once until he coached under Marvin Lewis.

Hue Jackson has been either a head coach or an offensive coordinator for three teams other than the Bengals and has never had a single winning season in six years.

Jay Gruden took over a team that was only one year removed from making the playoffs and had 2 losing seasons in his first four.  Marvin Lewis took over a team that had not had a single winning season in a dozen years and did not have a single losing season in his first four.
 

Was totally serious, and correct, I might add.  You took a discussion about the current Bengals coaching staff and turned it in to a history lesson looking back to an era where there was no cap and no rookie wage scale.  I never said they had the best roster in the NFL (although there were some media types that wrote articles about that subject).  

You try to blame the owner and not the one coach that has been here through all of it by saying that all the good players left.  Did they really?  Did they leave the Rams and Titans?  Or did their ownership FINALLY get rid of conservative, idiot coaches.  That is how I view the Bengals.  If someone like those coaches took over this roster...Too bad we won't find out.

Your criticism of Hue Jackson shows your complete lack of comprehension on the situation he is managing.  They stripped that ENTIRE team of ALL their talent and went with draft picks.  He has had ONE draft class that he has had to work with.  So, according to you, he should be winning with the heaviest rookie-laden roster in the NFL?  They are building something and at least they are sticking to the plan.  Hue had a pathetic Raiders roster on the cusp of the playoffs and they slipped RIGHT BACK IN TO THE OBLIVION when he was released.  

Your criticism of Gruden and Zimmer shows an even greater lack of understanding.  Ten times the coaches that Marv would ever be.  When you are trying to portray Zimmer, Gruden, and Hue as bad coaches when all three are still NFL Head Coaches (that is nearly 10% of ALL NFL HEAD COACHING POSITIONS...in a win-now league) is just pathetic.  

The Bengals have won in spite of Marvin.  Never because of him.  Some dominant personalities have created strengths on different sides of the ball, but Marv is not the one that comes up with the creative, aggressive play-calling and defensive schemes that is needed to compete in today's NFL.  That is why once those guys were gone, Marv was exposed.  He will fail again this year.  

(02-09-2018, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Was totally serious, and correct, I might add.  You took a discussion about the current Bengals coaching staff and turned it in to a history lesson looking back to an era where there was no cap and no rookie wage scale.  I never said they had the best roster in the NFL (although there were some media types that wrote articles about that subject).  

You try to blame the owner and not the one coach that has been here through all of it by saying that all the good players left.  Did they really?  Did they leave the Rams and Titans?  Or did their ownership FINALLY get rid of conservative, idiot coaches.  That is how I view the Bengals.  If someone like those coaches took over this roster...Too bad we won't find out.

Your criticism of Hue Jackson shows your complete lack of comprehension on the situation he is managing.  They stripped that ENTIRE team of ALL their talent and went with draft picks.  He has had ONE draft class that he has had to work with.  So, according to you, he should be winning with the heaviest rookie-laden roster in the NFL?  They are building something and at least they are sticking to the plan.  Hue had a pathetic Raiders roster on the cusp of the playoffs and they slipped RIGHT BACK IN TO THE OBLIVION when he was released.  

Your criticism of Gruden and Zimmer shows an even greater lack of understanding.  Ten times the coaches that Marv would ever be.  When you are trying to portray Zimmer, Gruden, and Hue as bad coaches when all three are still NFL Head Coaches (that is nearly 10% of ALL NFL HEAD COACHING POSITIONS...in a win-now league) is just pathetic.  

The Bengals have won in spite of Marvin.  Never because of him.  Some dominant personalities have created strengths on different sides of the ball, but Marv is not the one that comes up with the creative, aggressive play-calling and defensive schemes that is needed to compete in today's NFL.  That is why once those guys were gone, Marv was exposed.  He will fail again this year.  

Completely agree with your last paragraph. I believe Merv knew better than stick his nose in Zim's defensive scheme. Kind of why I didn't think Guenther was a bad coach, Merv just ramrodded him after Zim left. With Hue's personality, he probable let Merv know, let him do it his way.

(02-09-2018, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Was totally serious, and correct, I might add.  You took a discussion about the current Bengals coaching staff and turned it in to a history lesson looking back to an era where there was no cap and no rookie wage scale.  I never said they had the best roster in the NFL (although there were some media types that wrote articles about that subject).  

You try to blame the owner and not the one coach that has been here through all of it by saying that all the good players left.  Did they really?  Did they leave the Rams and Titans?  Or did their ownership FINALLY get rid of conservative, idiot coaches.  That is how I view the Bengals.  If someone like those coaches took over this roster...Too bad we won't find out.

Your criticism of Hue Jackson shows your complete lack of comprehension on the situation he is managing.  They stripped that ENTIRE team of ALL their talent and went with draft picks.  He has had ONE draft class that he has had to work with.  So, according to you, he should be winning with the heaviest rookie-laden roster in the NFL?  They are building something and at least they are sticking to the plan.  Hue had a pathetic Raiders roster on the cusp of the playoffs and they slipped RIGHT BACK IN TO THE OBLIVION when he was released.  

Your criticism of Gruden and Zimmer shows an even greater lack of understanding.  Ten times the coaches that Marv would ever be.  When you are trying to portray Zimmer, Gruden, and Hue as bad coaches when all three are still NFL Head Coaches (that is nearly 10% of ALL NFL HEAD COACHING POSITIONS...in a win-now league) is just pathetic.  

The Bengals have won in spite of Marvin.  Never because of him.  Some dominant personalities have created strengths on different sides of the ball, but Marv is not the one that comes up with the creative, aggressive play-calling and defensive schemes that is needed to compete in today's NFL.  That is why once those guys were gone, Marv was exposed.  He will fail again this year.  

I think a big reason why Van Pelt, Pollack and Austin all came here is cause the HC spot will be open to one of them or
Lazor when Marv leaves in a couple years. Hopefully one of these guys will be that aggressive coach we have been missing
so badly. Zimmer should be our HC right now if we did it right and we would have atleast a couple playoff wins IMHO.

(02-09-2018, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't be serious. 

Mike Brown with Marvin Lewis as head coach...  .527 win%..... 5 losing seasons in 15 years
Mike Brown with all other head coaches...........  .303 win%..... 11 losing seasons in 12 years

The Bengals never had the best roster in the NFL.  When they had a good roster they played well and made the playoffs.  It is amazing that you noticed all the coaches leaving but were unaware that a lot of talented players left also.  Gee I wonder why that is?

Mike Zimmer was a Defensive coordinator for 8 years and never made the playoffs once until he coached under Marvin Lewis.

Hue Jackson has been either a head coach or an offensive coordinator for three teams other than the Bengals and has never had a single winning season in six years.

Jay Gruden took over a team that was only one year removed from making the playoffs and had 2 losing seasons in his first four.  Marvin Lewis took over a team that had not had a single winning season in a dozen years and did not have a single losing season in his first four.
 

I didn’t realize mother Theresa coached the bengals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(02-09-2018, 03:49 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Completely agree with your last paragraph. I believe Merv knew better than stick his nose in Zim's defensive scheme. Kind of why I didn't think Guenther was a bad coach, Merv just ramrodded him after Zim left. With Hue's personality, he probable let Merv know, let him do it his way.

Sure hope Lazor follows suit and tells Marv to stay out of the playcalling and who Lazor thinks should play.

Lazor needs his freedom so we can judge him fairly.

(02-09-2018, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You try to blame the owner and not the one coach that has been here through all of it by saying that all the good players left.

Actually I did the exact opposite of this.  Mike Brown is the only one who has been here through the 26 year playoff drought.  So the only logical way to look at it is to break it down based on when Marvin was here and when he was not.

And here is what you get.

(02-09-2018, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown with Marvin Lewis as head coach...  .527 win%..... 5 losing seasons in 15 years
Mike Brown with all other head coaches...........  .303 win%..... 11 losing seasons in 12 years

Same thing with Gruden, Zimmer, and Jackson.  If you want to claim that they carried Marvin to the playoffs you have to compare what they have done with Marvin and without him.

"Zimmer, Gruden, and Jackson deserve all the credit for Marvin making the playoffs."

"So they also deserve all the blame for the playoff flops when they were here."

"No.  That is all Marvins fault.  Zimmer, Gruden, and Jackson only coached during the regular season when they were here."

(02-09-2018, 03:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I did the exact opposite of this.  Mike Brown is the only one who has been here through the 26 year playoff drought.  So the only logical way to look at it is to break it down based on when Marvin was here and when he was not.

And here is what you get.



Same thing with Gruden, Zimmer, and Jackson.  If you want to claim that they carried Marvin to the playoffs you have to compare what they have done with Marvin and without him.

"Zimmer, Gruden, and Jackson deserve all the credit for Marvin making the playoffs."

"So they also deserve all the blame for the playoff flops when they were here."

"No.  That is all Marvins fault.  Zimmer, Gruden, and Jackson only coached during the regular season when they were here."

Still, that is a mediocre record, just barely over .500 is anything but great, we should aim higher i would think.

Zimmer has won a Playoff game and when he was here we had some of the top Defenses in Franchise history.

He should of been our HC and not on the Vikings winning playoff games.

(02-09-2018, 04:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He should of been our HC and not on the Vikings winning playoff games.

"Game" not "games".  And it took an absolute miracle for him to get that win.  In his other two playoff games he has blown a 2 score lead in the fourth quarter and gotten completely blown out.

I don't mean to bash Zimmer.  I think he is a great coach.  But he is not the god some here seem to think.  His defenses stunk it up in the playoff losses here with the Bengals.

(02-09-2018, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Game" not "games".  And it took an absolute miracle for him to get that win.  In his other two playoff games he has blown a 2 score lead in the fourth quarter and gotten completely blown out.

I don't mean to bash Zimmer.  I think he is a great coach.  But he is not the god some here seem to think.  His defenses stunk it up in the playoff losses here with the Bengals.

All true, cannot disagree with any of this. But he SHOULD of been our coach years ago IMO.

Really think MB blew this one.

(02-09-2018, 04:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, cannot disagree with any of this. But he SHOULD of been our coach years ago IMO.

Really think MB blew this one.

I am not going to argue that Marvin is a better coach than Mike, but at the time Mike left we were on a playoff run.  That was not the time when most teams fire their head coach.

(02-09-2018, 04:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not going to argue that Marvin is a better coach than Mike, but at the time Mike left we were on a playoff run.  That was not the time when most teams fire their head coach.

True, but the team was in place to win. I think it would of been a smooth transition at the time.

As good as Marv's teams have been in the regular season as you and i have mentioned, they weren't getting it done when it mattered most.

(02-09-2018, 05:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As good as Marv's teams have been in the regular season as you and i have mentioned, they weren't getting it done when it mattered most.

And part of that was Zimmers playoff defense.