I have a question.

What are the minimum number of teams required to make an NFL trade?

(02-16-2018, 12:24 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: He screwed up by waiting till the last damn minute to make the trade.

The time to make the deal was during the draft before the season even started and if not then, you at least start the trade movements prior to the final day of the trade deadline and waiting till the last damn minute to try and make the deal final.

It is why the Patriots are winners and Mike Brown and the Bengals are losers. They sent Jimmy G off to San Fran and got it done right....meanwhile clownshoes ***** around and gets left holding nothing. The rich got richer with draft picks and this team just looks more and more inept.

The Bengals did just as much right as the Patriots.

If the time to make the trade was during the draft then why didn't the infallible Patriots trade JG then?  I'll tell you why.  Because the Patriots and the Bengals are both smarter than you.  They know when to get the most value for a player.

(02-16-2018, 12:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals did just as much right as the Patriots.

If the time to make the trade was during the draft then why didn't the infallible Patriots trade JG then?  I'll tell you why.  Because the Patriots and the Bengals are both smarter than you.  They know when to get the most value for a player.

Oh? Most value for a player?? You mean how the Bengals got exactly nothing besides....oh...wait...yup they got nothing.

They could have gotten a 2nd in the draft...

So pop quiz, what is better a 2nd round pick or nothing?

The Bengals ****** up...again.

(02-16-2018, 12:42 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Oh? Most value for a player?? You mean how the Bengals got exactly nothing besides....oh...wait...yup they got nothing.

They could have gotten a 2nd in the draft...

So pop quiz, what is better a 2nd round pick or nothing?

The Bengals ***** up...again.

You need to educate yourself about what happened with that deal.

The Bengals did nothing wrong.

(02-16-2018, 12:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You need to educate yourself about what happened with that deal.

The Bengals did nothing wrong.

They waited till the last minute to try and trade a player that they ran the risk of letting go for free, and it bit them in the ass Fred. Why you defend that useless walking corpse that runs this franchise into the ground over and over is beyond me.

This team will be good the day he dies unless Katie is as stubborn and stupid as he is. 

The Pats made the move with Jimmy G with plenty of time to spare, why...they were working on the deal before the last damn minute.

The Bengals weren't doing shit until the last few hours, the story is out there. AJM's own agent said he wasn't getting traded then...with a few hours to go he said wait...there is movement hold on.

That is the **** up. I get it..the Browns didn't file some paper, but why would you wait till the last damn minute and then blame anyone else. That shit should have been done midnight the day before the trade deadline not with 1 minute to go.

Bad planning, bad management....classic Bengals.

It has been rumored that Saschi Brown botched that trade on purpose. Furthermore, if Mike Brown waits until the last minute to trade AJM and has no other fail-safe, he puts his full faith in the Browns to ensure he gets value for the soon-to-be-departed AJM.

I bet the Browns are really laughing now that the Bengals lost the case and are receiving nothing. Wouldn't that be so nice if we could do something just like that to the Steelers?

It's no wonder why we never do many trades. We're absolutely terrible at executing them.

(02-16-2018, 01:06 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: They waited till the last minute to try and trade a player that they ran the risk of letting go for free, and it bit them in the ass Fred. Why you defend that useless walking corpse that runs this franchise into the ground over and over is beyond me.

This team will be good the day he dies unless Katie is as stubborn and stupid as he is. 

The Pats made the move with Jimmy G with plenty of time to spare, why...they were working on the deal before the last damn minute.

The Bengals weren't doing shit until the last few hours, the story is out there. AJM's own agent said he wasn't getting traded then...with a few hours to go he said wait...there is movement hold on.

That is the **** up. I get it..the Browns didn't file some paper, but why would you wait till the last damn minute and then blame anyone else. That shit should have been done midnight the day before the trade deadline not with 1 minute to go.

Bad planning, bad management....classic Bengals.

So you believe that the Bengals could have made the trade before the Browns were ready?

How is that possible?  Doesn't it take two teams to make a trade?

How do you know that the Bengals did not get the Brown to up the offer by holding out longer?  You don't.  How do you know they were not talking to other teams?  You don't.  You have no clue what happened.

I have said repeatedly that Mike Brown is the worst owner in the league.  But that does not mean you should be allowed to just make up stuff to bash him over.  He did not mess up in this case.  The Browns did.

Just more egg on this franchise's face. This definitely opens the door for more players who've been put on NFI now. You got to believe that teams will be more resistant to "stash" players there now. 

(02-16-2018, 01:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you believe that the Bengals could have made the trade before the Browns were ready?

How is that possible?  Doesn't it take two teams to make a trade?

How do you know that the Bengals did not get the Brown to up the offer by holding out longer?  You don't.  How do you know they were not talking to other teams?  You don't.  You have no clue what happened.

I have said repeatedly that Mike Brown is the worst owner in the league.  But that does not mean you should be allowed to just make up stuff to bash him over.  He did not mess up in this case.  The Browns did.

How do I know the Bengals waited....

Ummm that is actually easy. See back in the draft the Browns offered a pick for AJM then, that was news and common knowledge. See Hue wanted AJM that is also common knowledge. 

But old Mikey boy, he wanted to wait this game out, and now...now he gets nothing. 

Up the offer by waiting...cool...so quick question which of these things sucks the most.

A 2nd and 5th round pick
A 2nd and 3rd round pick
Not a damn thing.

Guess which one Mike went for by screwing around. 

The Pats do it right, that's why they have rings. When Mike and his bff on the sideline can win a damn playoff game then we'll talk about "trying to hold out for more." 

Two picks in the previous draft (the 2nd and 5th) had more value the AJM, but Mike waited. Now he gets no value. Classic Bengals.

(02-16-2018, 12:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have a question.

What are the minimum number of teams required to make an NFL trade?

An easy, and equally simplified counter to that would be:

What trade value/compensation is greater or is more valueable than zero?  (A: Any)

Sure, one can argue that it is indeed as simple as saying it takes two to tango. That you can't fault them for something out of their control, if it's just a matter of no teams having interest, or teams offering little to nothing.  And that's fair, if he true.

Looking at it reasonably though, I think most would agree that him not being traded had nothing to do with a lack of interest or value.  That doesn't have to necessarily mean that it has to be the Bengals fault.  Just simply that he has/had trade value, and that it's easily proven and argued that teams (plural) had both the need and means to offer something for him.

Did they play their hand wrong?  I don't know, nor really care enough to argue one way or another. I just know the result, getting nothing outside of a comp pic, is less than ideal. They could have got somehing more, but for whatever reason it didn't work that way. I can accept the argument of the importance of the backup position and the merits of hanging on to him, I just can't get on board with the idea that the reason could potentially be that no one wanted to deal for him. There were certainly teams who wanted him and would have gladly offered more than what we ultimately will receive. I feel pretty confident in representing that statement as a fact.

They could have traded him numerous times, and chose not to. It is what it is. I just thinking pointing to lack of interest or an unwillingness to deal from our NFL peers seems silly. They either chose not to trade him, or set their asking price higher than what the market ultimately dictated. Right or wrong, that's up to you.

PS Not really just Bengals related, but more NFL related. I think it's absolute garbage that the 5th year option is there at all. The moment rookie deals took an enormous plunge it should have went away. I can maybe understand having the ability to excise that with first rounders,the guys who are making some coin. But these guys drafted later, whether they're injured or not, whether they start, don't start, whatever, don't deserve having the rights potentially controlled that long, by a team that's paying them in 300k -900k range. If you want these guys another year teams should have to franchise tag them like everyone else.

To each their own, I just think it would have been terribly unfair to make him come back another year. Some of these guys are 22-23 years old when they come out. Couple that either or both their draft position and the average length of career, and it's just seems kind of wild to me. Guys rides pine for 5 years, makes peanuts compared to what no-name vets make, and hits free agency at 27 or 28. For most guys, and especially guys drafted where he was, that's a career.

Everything else aside, I'm just glad the guy is getting his chance. I was glad to see the decision. Always seemed like a good kid, and I he's deserving of a shot, from someone. So let him go try. If we really wanted him, we either would have played him or locked him up long-term. Or both. But we did neither, which is ok, but just means to me that we had no right dictating his future beyond the already generous 4 years that the rookie deal allows.

Both teams screwed it up. In today's world where everything is instant except for the Bengals and Browns obviously, how does a trade as close to the deadline as this one not get verified. How the hell does that happen. Either both organizations are incompetent or it truly was a botched deal in that case there was nothing Mike could have done other than raise hell with the league. If anything Mikey didn't have the balls to make a move before NE with Jimmy G. If it's true that a trade was turned down on draft day then shame on Mike. If it was some shady deal by the Browns then the league should of stepped in. Who's to say another team didn't want him and missed out because of Clevelands BS. I'm at the point where I'm just done with the Marvin/Dalton shit show and would rather trade Andy.

(02-15-2018, 11:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Greed" had nothing to do with the Browns screwing up the deal.

You have no clue what happened.  Mike Brown did nothing wrong. 

If they had traded for McCarron and he won this case wouldnt they have been able to void the deal?

(02-16-2018, 02:49 AM)bengalhoel Wrote: If they had traded for McCarron and he won this case wouldnt they have been able to void the deal?

Not sure there would have been a case. Maybe for backpay from the Bengals but I wouldn't think the trade would be voided. The Browns would just be in the same situation now having to pay up to keep him. Interesting question and curious if anyone does know the answer.

we desperately needed those picks..we blew it.

Bfine and Fred are gonna cry when mccarron and eifert are on the Steelers beating the shit out of the Bengals every game.

(02-16-2018, 05:09 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: Bfine and Fred are gonna cry when mccarron and eifert are on the Steelers beating the shit out of the Bengals every game.

Ben retiring? AJM wants to start. Hence him filing grievance against the Bengals to become an UFA...

I'm not predicting anything, but if AJM becomes dominant, you guys who are crying are going to be awfully happy the Browns botched that trade and the joke will be on them. Definitely not saying I'm glad we don't have an extra 2nd/3rd, but it is what it is. Sorry. Sucks.

Well this sucks! Yet it's the type of stuff that happens to this team. Not surprised at all.

There's one angle in all of this that I don't see anyone talking about: the arbiter of this case just ruled that the Bengals IMPROPERLY moved AJMc to the NFI list. They broke the rules. They cheated and got caught. How is that not gross and flagrant incompetence? That's pretty scummy and bush league of them too. Even ignoring everything to do with the trade, there was some high level incompetence somewhere or other if the arbiter found sufficient evidence to rule this way.

As for the trade, in 20/20 hindsight it looks very much as though the Browns might have purposefully dangled those picks and sunk it. If they DID pull that off on purpose, they are now on AJMc's good side and have effectively shafted the Bengals out of picks. They also prevented AJMc from settling in with a new team/system. That's an awful lot of leverage gained from a "mistake", is it not?

I bleeping hate the NFL. How on earth was that considered a year of service. Only here, folks. I hope Roger gets poison ivy on his butthole.