(03-16-2018, 02:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Guy is just a walking tragedy. All the talent in the world and a head for the game but just can’t get out of his own way. ***** sucks.

Vontaz is a tad......dense but is a damn good linebacker we can not easily replace.
WTF? You need to COACH stuff... do NOT get suspended for  PEDS, for personal fouls. THINK.

(03-16-2018, 03:47 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Its not the 4 game suspension that is going to hurt us. Its coming in out of shape fat and being slow the next 4 games or more after the suspension that's going to kill us.

He is going to play in preseason, mini camps, OTAS, and training camp.

Maybe it was a selfish act. Maybe he selfishly wanted to get rid of the what might very well have been blinding headaches, so he took a prescribed medicine. And maybe he neglected to file the paperwork. He was concussed, after all. Maybe one of the myriad of teammates, coaches, trainers and administrators around him could have seen to it.

Awhile back, I got a concussion. I went right back to work the next day, though I shouldn't have. I remembered most things, couldn't remember some. Every day for a week, I brought home a big bag of dog food. By the third day, my wife was dragging me to the ER. By the fourth day, the cashier at the pet food joint said to me, "Boy, you must have a lot of dogs." Then, I started coming home, dog food in hand, and telling her in great detail how I got fired. I work for myself.

Point is, he might not have even been in his right mind. Somebody around him failed him.

(03-16-2018, 05:12 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe it was a selfish act.  Maybe he selfishly wanted to get rid of the what might very well have been blinding headaches, so he took a prescribed medicine.  And maybe he neglected to file the paperwork.  He was concussed, after all.  Maybe one of the myriad of teammates, coaches, trainers and administrators around him could have seen to it.

Awhile back, I got a concussion.  I went right back to work the next day, though I shouldn't have.  I remembered most things, couldn't remember some.  Every day for a week, I brought home a big bag of dog food.  By the third day, my wife was dragging me to the ER.  By the fourth day, the cashier at the pet food joint said to me, "Boy, you must have a lot of dogs."  Then, I started coming home, dog food in hand, and telling her in great detail how I got fired.  I work for myself.  

Point is, he might not have even been in his right mind.  Somebody around him failed him.

I feel like you keep trying to twist things I'm saying about Burfict. I do not feel this act was a selfish one. I never said he was trying to cheat and I never said this was done intentionally. I agree that someone should've helped him. This really could be something so small as not filing the right paperwork. It doesn't make him a monster, shit happens. It does cost him time again. It hurts the team again.

I played football. I've had concussions. Like you, I don't remember things or they're fuzzy. I really do understand all of that.

What's selfish is the extra stuff he does that's unnecessary. The ball taps, the ankle twists, kicking guys in a pile, stepping on players arms, smacking someone in the facemask. All of that is selfish when you've been fined and suspended multiple times yet continue to do it.

(03-16-2018, 05:20 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I feel like you keep trying to twist things I'm saying about Burfict. I do not feel this act was a selfish one. I never said he was trying to cheat and I never said this was done intentionally. I agree that someone should've helped him. This really could be something so small as not filing the right paperwork. It doesn't make him a monster, shit happens. It does cost him time again. It hurts the team again.

I played football. I've had concussions. Like you, I don't remember things or they're fuzzy. I really do understand all of that.

What's selfish is the extra stuff he does that's unnecessary. The ball taps, the ankle twists, kicking guys in a pile, stepping on players arms, smacking someone in the facemask. All of that is selfish when you've been fined and suspended multiple times yet continue to do it.

He stopped doing all that stuff.   The league had to resort to very questionable incidents to find a way to suspend him.  Now, they've got nothing, suddenly they have this.  Stinks to high heaven.  

(03-16-2018, 04:50 PM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: I rarely post on here, though I'm particularly passionate about this situation:

Vontaze Burfict is exactly the kind of player I've felt this team has needed for decades. I truly enjoy watching his elite football IQ in action, and the intensity he brings to the team. In my mind there's no way you trade him or cut him until he proves to be genuinely malicious to the team or others, or his play diminishes enough to be beaten out for a roster spot.

I know it's chic to hype the cliche about availability being the best ability. Except for missing time with the injuries that are inevitable from his high impact style of play, most of his suspensions are incredibly dubious. It really shouldn't be up for debate that the league has a clear bias for the Steelers, and the fact that he was suspended for so many games to start a new season for the hit on Brown from a previous year's wild card game was absurd. (Regardless if he bag tagged or twisted ankles earlier in his career.)

The absurdity escalated in orders of magnitude with the suspension after a shoulder block in the preseason to a guy running a route across his face well within 5 yrds of the line of scrimmage (subjective defenseless player rules be damned.) An ejection for a casual brush of a hand to a referee looking for an excuse to further this narrative of Vontaze as the league's ultimate villain caps of this shameless slant against the Bengals.

In my mind, there's no doubt whatsoever that the league is looking to derail the once-in-multiple-generations talent we have on our team in Burfict; he and the Bengals are the biggest threat to a cruisy Steeler season (not Baltimore, and certainly not Cleveland, whom the Steelers have been gifted to finish the season against each and every year (bar one) since the league instituted division games to finish a season - the AFCN being the ONLY division with that kind of static scheduling across the league, and it's not even close in comparing how little our schedule rotates to other divisions, begging to ask the question, "who benefits from such an under-the-radar arrangement?"...automatic 2nd bye week for the Goodell's HR Managers, the Rooney family.)  

And now with this latest episode of one-for-the-thumb on the scale, the reality could be that a totally premeditated and illegal hit on Vontaze by Boo-Hoo Scheister-Smith could potentially sideline him for a quarter of another season, and that's a reality that is sickening. Add more nausea in that the Steelers, League, sports media, and most fans erroneously believe that Vontaze maliciously ended Bell's season twice, and they all gleefully contend he deserves what's coming to him. Putrid.

Unfortunately, an alarming number of our fans don't seem to recognize that if the ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl, you best believe that Burfict's play at LB will be monumental in any such scenario where that could, in theory, you know, maybe happen. You don't get rid of a guy of that caliber for what could very well be another BS and/or bogus suspension brought on by a BS punk illegal hit by a squad that has clearly sought to influence the league in previous suspensions of the same guy for hits that weren't even close to the level of the dirty shot Vontaze took in the Steelers game last year.

His contract is manageable, and even if the league decides to once again railroad us and help the Shittsburgh gravy train get rolling early for one more ride for the Stealer B's, there's no draft pick or replacement linebacker out there that could provide even a fraction of what Vontaze does when he's in there - fat or otherwise, suspended or not. You just take what you get, when you can get it or the league allows, and you calculate that his game changing plays and mind will indeed show up at some point, and just provide enough magic to get us the ultimate prize one of these fine days. At the bare minimum, he's one helluva a 7th Lb'er. I'm taking that all day long, even if it's just twice on Sundays.

I'll never forget how Burfict, Pacman, and Hill rewarded Mike Brown for taking a chance on them with his once in a generation, first career playoff win against Pittsburgh a few years ago.

Four game suspension saves us $1.7 million we can use to sign another free agent.

Haven't read all 4 pages, but no way in hell do we release Burfict over this. Our defense sucked without him.

According to the Bengals website, all of the Raider trade talks was BS.


http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Reports-Bengals-stay-close-to-find-Tez-tag-team-partner-in-Preston-Brown-Tez-faces-PED-suspension/74a1c3de-b69f-491f-92f3-83d6ffa4c42a

(03-16-2018, 04:35 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Off the top of my head, nothing comes to mind which is both a PED and used for concussions.

And players take PEDs when they are injured to heal faster and during the off season because there is less chance of getting selected for a random drug test. Whoever is feeding him that answer needs to STFU because that excuse is about as transparent as they come.

Agree with you. Their are very few athletes that fail drug tests and admit they knowingly took drugs. The majority of the time they make up all these ridiculous stories of how they might have had a positive test and this sounds like one of them to me. Burfict is prone to making boneheaded desicons before with hits now with PEDS. How many excuses are we gonna make for this guy ?

(03-16-2018, 05:03 PM)McC Wrote: Beautifully and reasonably said.  Welcome aboard.  Please stick around.  You know how we hate one and done.

Also, you can tell how much the Steelers respect your game by the lengths they will go to remove you.

Hey thanks for that. I've enjoyed reading these boards for years, and the thanks extends to everyone who makes this place an outlet for us all - passive or otherwise. Will try to pull my weight and make a contribution to the conversation a bit more. 

We're all fans, which by definition means fanatical. I lean more towards nuance, brainstorming, and deeper dives in my debate. Will try not to make any waves too tedious. 

...and totally get your point on Steeler strategy: their tactics come from respect and/or fear, but either way, the Rooney's are hell bent on being bailed out when required. 

(03-16-2018, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Four game suspension saves us $1.7 million we can use to sign another free agent.

Haven't read all 4 pages, but no way in hell do we release Burfict over this.  Our defense sucked without him.

this...the guy means more to this team than anyone 

(03-16-2018, 05:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'll never forget how Burfict, Pacman, and Hill rewarded Mike Brown for taking a chance on them with his once in a generation, first career playoff win against Pittsburgh a few years ago.

We didn't win, but we are not even in the playoffs without Hill, Burfict, and Jones.

(03-16-2018, 05:26 PM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: Hey thanks for that. I've enjoyed reading these boards for years, and the thanks extends to everyone who makes this place an outlet for us all - passive or otherwise. Will try to pull my weight and make a contribution to the conversation a bit more. 

We're all fans, which by definition means fanatical. I lean more towards nuance, brainstorming, and deeper dives in my debate. Will try not to make any waves too tedious. 

...and totally get your point on Steeler strategy: their tactics come from respect and/or fear, but either way, the Rooney's are hell bent on being bailed out when required. 

Yeah man, post some more.  It's always nice getting fresh perspectives.

(03-16-2018, 05:23 PM)McC Wrote: He stopped doing all that stuff.   The league had to resort to very questionable incidents to find a way to suspend him.  Now, they've got nothing, suddenly they have this.  Stinks to high heaven.  

Really? Against the Steelers last season he kicked their FB in the head and later in the game looked over his shoulder to see the FB coming his way and then flung his hands out to hit him in the head. Plus there was the Titans game last year when he stepped on a players arm and then got ejected for touching the ref. I'm sure there's more, but those were both last season and both off the top of my head.

(03-16-2018, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Four game suspension saves us $1.7 million we can use to sign another free agent.

Haven't read all 4 pages, but no way in hell do we release Burfict over this. Our defense sucked without him.

It definitely won’t be as good without him but are defense is usually without him due to suspension from dumb hits, injury and now PEDS. At some point enough is enough, he is unreliable.

(03-16-2018, 05:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We didn't win, but we are not even in the playoffs without Hill, Burfict, and Jones.

I seem to remember the Bengals making the playoffs without those three on the team.

Vontaze Burfict makes Stanley Wilson seem reliable by comparison.

(03-16-2018, 05:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'll never forget how Burfict, Pacman, and Hill rewarded Mike Brown for taking a chance on them with his once in a generation, first career playoff win against Pittsburgh a few years ago.

Hey there - real quick to start - your name is one of my favorites around here - can never read it without doing it in a Robin Williams/Good Will Hunting voice where he and Matt Damon are having a Taster's Choice moment between guys.

Not sure exactly where you're going with your comment though, except to expect that it comes from the same seemingly bottomless pit of frustration we all probably share from that playoff game. Lot of blame to go around, and I agree there were 3 easy plays/incidents to point to when ticking them off a long list.

But I will contend that Burfict's play was simply incredible that game, and absolutely instrumental in getting us to the point it should have been over. 

For a personal backstory - I was on crutches, and watching the game on a small tablet with a sketchy internet connection halfway around the world, and as soon as Vontaze picked off Pig Ben and took the party to the tunnel, I was gimp-sprinting on adrenaline up and down a hallway at an ungodly hour with the time change, alternating f bombs, who deys, and nature boy whoooo's....such a great feeling to see a big time play like that in such a big game.

I personally have zero problem with the play he made on Brown a little later, having to saddle back up on the field after the unfortunate fumble by Hill. Vontaze is a warrior, and he's going to bring it, and leave it out there. You smack Brown in case he comes down with the ball (the new rules are beyond lame, essentially allowing the refs/league to decide if a receiver should be given the chance to catch, or not catch, a ball without getting popped either way, when it suits them.) 

These plays are bang-bang, and Brown moved into the hit, intentionally or not, and at that point, the game was put in the refs hands (something that will NEVER benefit the Bengals in that scenario.) This was confirmed a few minutes later with the failure to call offsetting penalties on Porter/PacMan. (And just to let us know where we are in the pecking order, recall the league's deference to Pissburgh even later in the year with the fine against Munchak for pulling Reggie's hair quietly rescinded.) 

At any rate, I completely get any disgust for that wildcard game, and certainly the Bengals deserve a healthy amount of heat from the fans for some of their performance, but in regards to whether or not Burfict's current value to the team is in doubt because of this potential suspension, I don't follow where you stand from your comment above. 

Would you feel he can make a positive contribution, even in limited action, beyond what the last LB on the team could do (think Nickerson or Dimanche in past years...)? I'm sure you can tell, I definitely do.



 

Can he be dumb enough not to have a doctor ensure the medicine he takes is allowable in the NFL ?

It's gotten to the point where personally I'm ready to say enough is enough. Good riddance to Adam Jones. Now I'm not ready to cut Burfict and have him get signed by one of our rivals, but I believe it's time that the Bengals suspend him on their own for conduct detrimental (whether this means an actual suspension or just a benching for some games in addition to the NFL levied suspension, is up to whatever the CBA allows them). I wasn't sure if he is smart enough to get what has been going on for the last few years, but I'm starting to lean towards he probably just isn't ever going to "get it". This internal suspension would be my final chance to see if there's any type of action that can impress upon him the tightest rope he is walking in regards to his career, but if that doesn't do it I'm not sure anything else will. It might already be too late. I know how valuable he is to the defense, and that is the only reason he gets one more chance (in the scenario that I laid out). The defense will suffer big time without him, but I worry if no serious steps are taken, VB will be out of the league soon, and the defense will have to play without him anyway.

Now I will wait and see how his appeal goes, but just based on what I've heard, this excuse of "I was hurt and not playing so I can't be gaining a competitive advantage by taking something" just shows a total lack of intelligence (especially for a fifth or whatever year veteran). I hope that the excuse that I just wrote is not what he actually plans to claim, and I hope this is just a misunderstanding that he can clear up with the NFL and get his suspension overturned, but based on his attitude and the perception of the NFL towards him I'm not optimistic. And for him to think that anything but choirboy behavior is an option for him just emphasizes that he doesn't get it. Fair or not, that's the situation in which he finds himself. I'm neither saying it's fair or otherwise. It's also possible that Marvin has coddled him to the point that Vontaze doesn't have the chance to "get it", but I will give Marvin more credit than that, unless it is shown otherwise (this is only about Marvin's mentoring of VB, not about anything else).