(03-23-2018, 01:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: People keep pointing out that there haven't been 2 centers taken in the top 45 in a long time.

Well, there hasn't been 2-3 centers that are thought of as 1st round (Price, Daniels) and 2nd round talent (Ragnow) in quite some time.

There are several teams that could use a center - Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami, Washington etc.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Price and Daniels both go in round 1.  IF the Bengals don't take a center in round 1, Ragnow will go at 45 with a team trading up to get him.  EVERYONE knows that the Bengals need a starting caliber center.  Hell, I wouldn't be shocked to see a team trade up to 20 to take one in front of us.

Some valid points.

However, I will point out that BUF might wait somewhat on a C now that they have Bodine.
Washington has Chase Roullier as their starting C. Roullier was the 19th ranked C last year and started 7 games for them. So WAS may also wait on a C.
You're right though that MIA and BAL need a C.

MIA picks 11 and BAL picks 16, so C might be too pricey for them at those picks.
MIA would obviously pick before the Bengals in the 2nd round though and therefore have another shot at C before 46, but BAL would have to trade up to get into the top 45.

If no Price, Ragnow, or Daniels at 46 ends up actually being true, I'd be ok with Mason Cole in Rd 3.
And if he happened to not be available in Rd 3, there are still a few C's in FA that are available that could at least bridge a 1-2 year gap.

(03-23-2018, 01:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: People keep pointing out that there haven't been 2 centers taken in the top 45 in a long time.

Well, there hasn't been 2-3 centers that are thought of as 1st round (Price, Daniels) and 2nd round talent (Ragnow) in quite some time.

There are several teams that could use a center - Baltimore, Buffalo, Miami, Washington etc.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Price and Daniels both go in round 1.  IF the Bengals don't take a center in round 1, Ragnow will go at 45 with a team trading up to get him.  EVERYONE knows that the Bengals need a starting caliber center.  Hell, I wouldn't be shocked to see a team trade up to 20 to take one in front of us.

When you put it like this sounds like we better take Price or Ragnow at 21 or we will have to trade up in the 2nd for one of them.

Either way we need to get one of these guys cause you are correct, everyone knows we need a Center.

(03-23-2018, 02:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Some valid points.

However, I will point out that BUF might wait somewhat on a C now that they have Bodine.
Washington has Chase Roullier as their starting C. Roullier was the 19th ranked C last year and started 7 games for them. So WAS may also wait on a C.
You're right though that MIA and BAL need a C.

MIA picks 11 and BAL picks 16, so C might be too pricey for them at those picks.
MIA would obviously pick before the Bengals in the 2nd round though and therefore have another shot at C before 46, but BAL would have to trade up to get into the top 45.

If no Price, Ragnow, or Daniels at 46 ends up actually being true, I'd be ok with Mason Cole in Rd 3.
And if he happened to not be available in Rd 3, there are still a few C's in FA that are available that could at least bridge a 1-2 year gap.

More great points. Roullier looked good for Washington last year when i saw him fill in and it was against a damn good Defense
too, either Minnesota or Seattle, cannot remember right now. I agree with you that they will probably wait on a Center.

Also would like Cole but i do like Price and Ragnow much better for us, would rather have one of them.

A little surprised that no one else decided to post any other draft profiles of Ragnow. He's easily my second choice, as far as being a good fit for what this team needs in a Center, given our particular division. Being a SEC guy, he's had plenty of experience facing large guys in his face.

I realize he didn't do any drills at the combine, due to recovery from ankle surgery. However, the only measurements given are height and weight. Interesting that he didn't allow arm and hand measurements..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/frank-ragnow?id=2559824

Quote:Strengths Has good size and overall power for the position. Solid snap to step quickness and doesn't waste time getting to his spot. Quick to get into defenders as a down blocker. Has adequate bend into contact at point of attack. Will drive block from insteps and can generate some movement through force. Does a really nice job of locating his second block target early in the rep. Transitions from first to second block with good timing and pop. Has plus feel for angles up to linebackers and does a good job of sifting and finding targets on short pulls. Block finisher with a desired level of toughness. Has strong hands to cinch defender's frame and ride blocks out. Able to drop tail and anchor against bull rushers and will find work when uncovered. Has starting experience at guard as well as center.

Weaknesses Is an average athlete and can be a little heavy footed in space when tasked with sudden redirection against moving targets. Needs to drop pad level as move blocker. Post-contact base can be a little inconsistent causing occasional balance issues. On the ground a little more than he needs to be. Has tendency to maul with wider hands when trying to get his man turned and sealed at the point of attack. Can improve his feel for twists coming. May struggle against quick-twitch opposition. Will be coming off of season-ending high ankle injury that will need to be vetted by combine doctors.
Draft Projection Rounds 2-3

Sources Tell Us "He's a tough guy and a leader in that locker room. He's got the personality that you want your center to have and he's got good strength. I see him as an early starter in the league." - NFC area scout
NFL Comparison Nick Martin

Bottom Line Three-year starter and team captain who brings a desired level of physical demeanor to the field each game. Ragnow won't wow you with foot quickness or athleticism, but he takes smart angles to his blocks and shouldn't be limited by scheme. His size, power, and anchor is a big plus as is his ability to swing over to guard if needed. Ragnow could struggle to stay connected to blocks against athletic interior linemen with quick hands, but his baseline play is equal to a solid NFL starter.

(03-23-2018, 03:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A little surprised that no one else decided to post any other draft profiles of Ragnow.  He's easily my second choice, as far as being a good fit for what this team needs in a Center, given our particular division.  Being a SEC guy, he's had plenty of experience facing large guys in his face.

I realize he didn't do any drills at the combine, due to recovery from ankle surgery.  However, the only measurements given are height and weight.  Interesting that he didn't allow arm and hand measurements..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/frank-ragnow?id=2559824

He did at the Senior Bowl. 33 1/4 inch arms and a 79 1/2 inch wingspan.

(03-23-2018, 04:05 PM)Synric Wrote: He did at the Senior Bowl. 33 1/4 inch arms and a 79 1/2 inch wingspan.

At 6'5" that's pretty average.  For comparison, I'm barely 6'2" and I have a wingspan of 76.25" with 10" hands. 

Those are still decent measurements to play center.  What I like most about him is he is described as being tough, and a strong leader in the locker room.

(03-23-2018, 03:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A little surprised that no one else decided to post any other draft profiles of Ragnow.  He's easily my second choice, as far as being a good fit for what this team needs in a Center, given our particular division.  Being a SEC guy, he's had plenty of experience facing large guys in his face.

I realize he didn't do any drills at the combine, due to recovery from ankle surgery.  However, the only measurements given are height and weight.  Interesting that he didn't allow arm and hand measurements..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/frank-ragnow?id=2559824

Thanks for this Sunset.   Here is an excerpt from NFL Draft Scout:

STRENGTHS

Possesses exceptional size for the center position with broad shoulders, long thick limbs and an even distribution of weight, including a powerful base.  Ragnow shows good snap to step quickness, firing shotgun snaps accurately and latching onto opponents in one fluid motion, showing the coordination of hands and feet of an NFL veteran.  From his accurate hand placement to easy knee bend to efficient path in finding and finishing targets at the second level, Ragnow shows textbook technique.  He is powerful – jolting opponents with strong hands and even occasionally rag-dolling them – and is made more so because of his knee bed and core flexibility, which allows him to anchor effectively against bull rushers.  His length and balance help him recover on the few snaps in which a defender slipped by him initially with Ragnow showing the hand-eye coordination to supply hits to the legal sides and hips of opponents, without drawing the ire of referees.  Ragnow keeps his head on a swivel and looks to help his teammates, closing quickly to provide immediate help but not wasting time with blocks already won.   Other than the high ankle sprain which cut his senior season short, Ragnow has shown excellent durability throughout his career, playing 42 games overall, starting the final 33.  – Rob Rang 1/14/2018

WEAKNESSES

Ragnow shows functional athleticism on the field but may not test well, showing less than ideal straight-line speed to reach deep targets when blocking at the second level.  Undersized defensive tackles can give him trouble and Ragnow will resort to extending his legs wide to limit the gap between himself and the guard, leaving him slightly off-balance.  He played in a relatively OL -friendly scheme based on downhill rushing and the quarterback getting the all out quickly, which may not be the case in the NFL.  Teams will want to get a closer look at Ragnow’s surgically repaired ankle.

COMPARES TO: Alex Mack, Falcons… 

IN OUR VIEW: …best suited to playing center…in a power-based scheme but is athletic and instinctive enough to handle a zone attack, as well.

http://nfldraftscout.com/

(03-23-2018, 05:18 PM)3wt Wrote: Thanks for this Sunset.   Here is an excerpt from NFL Draft Scout:

STRENGTHS

Possesses exceptional size for the center position with broad shoulders, long thick limbs and an even distribution of weight, including a powerful base.  Ragnow shows good snap to step quickness, firing shotgun snaps accurately and latching onto opponents in one fluid motion, showing the coordination of hands and feet of an NFL veteran.  From his accurate hand placement to easy knee bend to efficient path in finding and finishing targets at the second level, Ragnow shows textbook technique.  He is powerful – jolting opponents with strong hands and even occasionally rag-dolling them – and is made more so because of his knee bed and core flexibility, which allows him to anchor effectively against bull rushers.  His length and balance help him recover on the few snaps in which a defender slipped by him initially with Ragnow showing the hand-eye coordination to supply hits to the legal sides and hips of opponents, without drawing the ire of referees.  Ragnow keeps his head on a swivel and looks to help his teammates, closing quickly to provide immediate help but not wasting time with blocks already won.   Other than the high ankle sprain which cut his senior season short, Ragnow has shown excellent durability throughout his career, playing 42 games overall, starting the final 33.  – Rob Rang 1/14/2018

WEAKNESSES

Ragnow shows functional athleticism on the field but may not test well, showing less than ideal straight-line speed to reach deep targets when blocking at the second level.  Undersized defensive tackles can give him trouble and Ragnow will resort to extending his legs wide to limit the gap between himself and the guard, leaving him slightly off-balance.  He played in a relatively OL -friendly scheme based on downhill rushing and the quarterback getting the all out quickly, which may not be the case in the NFL.  Teams will want to get a closer look at Ragnow’s surgically repaired ankle.

COMPARES TO: Alex Mack, Falcons… 

IN OUR VIEW: …best suited to playing center…in a power-based scheme but is athletic and instinctive enough to handle a zone attack, as well.

http://nfldraftscout.com/

Nice, those are the guys that used to be the CBS team.  Always good to see multiple sets of eyes, all saying essentially the same things about a player.  Like I said earlier, Ragnow is easily my second choice for Center of the Bengals.  I would be completely comfortable with the team putting their trust in him.

Thanks guys for all the info on my guy Ragnow.

Seriously think he fits precisely what we need, plays best against bigger interior players. Works best in a run first Offense
with a QB that gets the ball out fast. Is powerful with strong hands and can even rag doll Defenders at times...

Stayed healthy for his entire career besides the high ankle sprain and he will be good to go right off the bat unlike Price
who would be missing OTA's from what i hear.

Thanks again Sunset, Synric and 3wt.

Ragnow was healthy for Arkansas Pro day. He might not be there for the Bengals second round pick.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-2018-pro-day-football-ragnow-allen

Quote:Ragnow performed very well in most of the drills. His vertical (33’6″) and broad (9’7″) were personal bests. He also ran the 40-yard dash in 4.98 seconds. The only area he underperformed was on the bench press where he get 27 reps at 225 pounds. He said 36 is his personal best.

Most of the day for Ragnow was about proving he’s healthy after his ankle injury that costs him the second half of his senior season. He didn’t get to do much of anything at the NFL Combine last month, so the pro day was important in showing he’s healthy. He definitely did that, especially with those jumping numbers.

The Cowboys, Giants, Panthers and Seahawks seemed to pay particularly close attention to Ragnow, though pretty every team there was at least somewhat interested. The Cowboys’ representative never left his side.

A scout in attendance Monday said Ragnow is trending strongly towards being a second-round pick. It’s unlikely he climbs all the way into the first round, but he is clearly very well thought of by a lot of teams.

(03-27-2018, 11:01 AM)Synric Wrote: Ragnow was healthy for Arkansas Pro day. He might not be there for the Bengals second round pick.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-2018-pro-day-football-ragnow-allen

Bummer.   Giants' interest make this too high for us to trade up.

If we want an impact center it will have to be in the first or very high in the 2nd - and I doubt even that will be enough to get Ragnow now.   That's a mighty fast 40 for a man as big as he is.

And then there's his tape. 

So long

(03-27-2018, 03:32 PM)3wt Wrote: Bummer.   Giants' interest make this too high for us to trade up.

If we want an impact center it will have to be in the first or very high in the 2nd - and I doubt even that will be enough to get Ragnow now.   That's a mighty fast 40 for a man as big as he is.

And then there's his tape. 

So long

And that's why I keep saying that the top 3 centers will be off the board by pick #45.

(03-27-2018, 11:01 AM)Synric Wrote: Ragnow was healthy for Arkansas Pro day. He might not be there for the Bengals second round pick.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-2018-pro-day-football-ragnow-allen

(03-27-2018, 03:32 PM)3wt Wrote: Bummer.   Giants' interest make this too high for us to trade up.

If we want an impact center it will have to be in the first or very high in the 2nd - and I doubt even that will be enough to get Ragnow now.   That's a mighty fast 40 for a man as big as he is.

And then there's his tape. 

So long

(03-27-2018, 03:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: And that's why I keep saying that the top 3 centers will be off the board by pick #45.

Well, thats it then, i don't want to go any other way than Price or Ragnow at 21 now.

(03-27-2018, 04:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, thats it then, i don't want to go any other way than Price or Ragnow at 21 now.

I think if we are really targeting a C, if all 3 are on the board at #21 (which at least 2 of them should be) - I'm guessing that the Bengals trade down a little bit.

Although, with all of the picks that we have, it wouldn't hurt to move up a little in the first round and get the guy we really want (not necessarily a C).

We could also do the same in round 2 - I think the odds of that happening are long as the Bengals love to have a ton of picks.

(03-27-2018, 04:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, thats it then, i don't want to go any other way than Price or Ragnow at 21 now.

Which I don't see happening.  As Hammerstripes said, the Bengals don't like to trade up except in the later rounds and haven't taken a center in the top two rounds since Rimmington - more than a generation ago.

We'll see.   There is a different OL coach and a different mindset down at PBS.  And Lazor wants big players for his offensive line.

But both Owczarski and Hobson have indicated that taking a center or a linebacker in the first round is unlikely.   But the emphasis is more on the linebacker.   So who knows.

But the more I hear about Ragnow - and the little film I have seen of him makes me want him.   And the need to both amp up the running game and protect Dalton in the interior are both keys to us improving this offense.

I'm just hoping this is not the year they decide to go with another DB.   With Jones gone that is a distinct possibility.

And here's an interesting thing.   I was listening to Ross Tucker's podcast with Fran Duffy (Eagles film guru).  They were talking about offensive linemen for about 30 - 35 minutes, and they talked a lot about Ragnow, a little about Daniels and didn't say boo about Billy Price...

Just thought there would be some sort of mention about the dude.

(03-28-2018, 12:14 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think if we are really targeting a C, if all 3 are on the board at #21 (which at least 2 of them should be) - I'm guessing that the Bengals trade down a little bit.

Although, with all of the picks that we have, it wouldn't hurt to move up a little in the first round and get the guy we really want (not necessarily a C).

We could also do the same in round 2 - I think the odds of that happening are long as the Bengals love to have a ton of picks.

I could definately see us trading back and grabbing one of them and would be all for it.

Better than picking another player that is not BPA and hoping to have a trade partner for one of them in the 2nd IMHO.

(03-29-2018, 01:05 PM)3wt Wrote: Which I don't see happening.  As Hammerstripes said, the Bengals don't like to trade up except in the later rounds and haven't taken a center in the top two rounds since Rimmington - more than a generation ago.

We'll see.   There is a different OL coach and a different mindset down at PBS.  And Lazor wants big players for his offensive line.

But both Owczarski and Hobson have indicated that taking a center or a linebacker in the first round is unlikely.   But the emphasis is more on the linebacker.   So who knows.

But the more I hear about Ragnow - and the little film I have seen of him makes me want him.   And the need to both amp up the running game and protect Dalton in the interior are both keys to us improving this offense.

I'm just hoping this is not the year they decide to go with another DB.   With Jones gone that is a distinct possibility.

Yeah, i doubt we take a Linebacker at 21 unless Edmunds falls which is highly unlikely. Center has been spoke about though
by the Spin but he is always wrong so that sucks. Ragnow is pretty much tied with Price in my eyes and after his Pro-Day and
knowing that he will be ready come OTA's ahead of Price i am almost leaning his way now.

(03-29-2018, 01:09 PM)3wt Wrote: And here's an interesting thing.   I was listening to Ross Tucker's podcast with Fran Duffy (Eagles film guru).  They were talking about offensive linemen for about 30 - 35 minutes, and they talked a lot about Ragnow, a little about Daniels and didn't say boo about Billy Price...

Just thought there would be some sort of mention about the dude.

That is interesting, usually i am not as big on OSU guys as i am not a Buckeye fan, but Price really stood out to me in a great
way when i watched them last year. Made some devastating run blocks opening up holes that went for long TD's, he has great
strength and movement and is a good pass protector. The pectoral injury must be the reason they were not talking about him.

(03-29-2018, 02:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I could definately see us trading back and grabbing one of them and would be all for it.

Better than picking another player that is not BPA and hoping to have a trade partner for one of them in the 2nd IMHO.


Yeah, i doubt we take a Linebacker at 21 unless Edmunds falls which is highly unlikely. Center has been spoke about though
by the Spin but he is always wrong so that sucks. Ragnow is pretty much tied with Price in my eyes and after his Pro-Day and
knowing that he will be ready come OTA's ahead of Price i am almost leaning his way now.


That is interesting, usually i am not as big on OSU guys as i am not a Buckeye fan, but Price really stood out to me in a great
way when i watched them last year. Made some devastating run blocks opening up holes that went for long TD's, he has great
strength and movement and is a good pass protector. The pectoral injury must be the reason they were not talking about him.

Made no sense to me.   Tucker and his cadre of guests are usually spot on - but he has a pretty tight time slot, so maybe there was little enough change with him that he was not deemed necessary to comment on.   Most sites have Price anywhere from 1st to 2nd, so I would think that's where he will go.   I'd be very happy for him to be a Bengal.

(03-29-2018, 02:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I could definately see us trading back and grabbing one of them and would be all for it.

Better than picking another player that is not BPA and hoping to have a trade partner for one of them in the 2nd IMHO.


Yeah, i doubt we take a Linebacker at 21 unless Edmunds falls which is highly unlikely. Center has been spoke about though
by the Spin but he is always wrong so that sucks. Ragnow is pretty much tied with Price in my eyes and after his Pro-Day and
knowing that he will be ready come OTA's ahead of Price i am almost leaning his way now.


That is interesting, usually i am not as big on OSU guys as i am not a Buckeye fan, but Price really stood out to me in a great
way when i watched them last year. Made some devastating run blocks opening up holes that went for long TD's, he has great
strength and movement and is a good pass protector. The pectoral injury must be the reason they were not talking about him.

Ragnow is also more experienced at C compared to Price and is a safer prospect. Bengals also attended Arkansas Pro Day so the interest is there.
Given the gaping hole at C, I think the Bengals might prefer Ragnow due to earlier availability on the field, well-roundedness against both the run and pass, and three years of experience at the position (in the SEC no less).
It actually wouldn't surprise me if the Bengals took him at 21 although I'd consider it a "slight" reach. But I'd rather reach a bit for a guy like Ragnow than gamble he won't be available at 46 if he's my favorite C prospect.

(03-29-2018, 04:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ragnow is also more experienced at C compared to Price and is a safer prospect. Bengals also attended Arkansas Pro Day so the interest is there.
Given the gaping hole at C, I think the Bengals might prefer Ragnow due to earlier availability on the field, well-roundedness against both the run and pass, and three years of experience at the position (in the SEC no less).
It actually wouldn't surprise me if the Bengals took him at 21 although I'd consider it a "slight" reach. But I'd rather reach a bit for a guy like Ragnow than gamble he won't be available at 46 if he's my favorite C prospect.

I would be happy taking Ragnow at 21.   But 99% sure that would never happen.