(04-03-2018, 01:17 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: So every season I make an installment of this...fantastic series giving logical arguments and sound predictions concerning which players we need to move on from. My infamous Jeremy Hill thread before the 2016 season comes to mind.

This year it's Dunlap and here's why...

Geno has dominated more consistently than Dunlap. The dirty secret is that we're probably only going to keep one. That's for Geno.

Jordan Willis and Carl Lawson and possibly one D end this draft will step up.

Most importantly, Dunlap is most likely to pull a Carson. If you look through social media post 2015, he's made a lot of passive aggressive jabs at the bengals. He probably doesn't want to come back anyway unless we overpay him.

If Willis is ready, you can cut MJ this year and use his cap money to pay for Dunlap (help). It would be a very dumb move to remove a class act on and off the field.

(04-03-2018, 09:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not totally agree on the Dunlap thing and for those saying we can keep both; it's not our M.O.

Hall or Joseph
Chad or TJ
Whit or Z (Browns sucker punched us)

I will say that choices early in this year's draft will be quite telling.

I do totally disagree with the Hill thing. He did not turn out to be an ass. He remained a hard worker, played through injury, and really took the post-season fumble personally. He did not fumble once that year and I believe he was tops in the league in TDs. Even at the start of last year he was not an ass, Some can argue that he took care of #1 when the writing was on the wall, but I don't remember anything adverse. 

Which part about Dunlap don't you agree about?

I can see Truck's point about Willis and Lawson. They may not be able to replace him, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if we went D-end this draft.

There's a chance he doesn't want to be here and pull a Carson. Did you hear about his "I don't know the plan" tweet after Whitworth/Zeitler/Burkhead leaving?

Then, there was this gem on his Instagram last season: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/9/15/16314662/carlos-dunlap-hints-frustration-bengals-start 
His Super Bowl love aspirations: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/06/carlos-dunlap-wants-game-changing-play-super-bowl-brandon-graham/

Guy wants to win. And I get the feeling that he doesn't think Cincy will get him there. Keep in mind i'm not saying this is true. I'm only saying what I think Dunlap thinks. 

They won't resign both players.

(04-03-2018, 09:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not totally agree on the Dunlap thing and for those saying we can keep both; it's not our M.O.

Hall or Joseph
Chad or TJ
Whit or Z (Browns sucker punched us)

I will say that choices early in this year's draft will be quite telling.

I do totally disagree with the Hill thing. He did not turn out to be an ass. He remained a hard worker, played through injury, and really took the post-season fumble personally. He did not fumble once that year and I believe he was tops in the league in TDs. Even at the start of last year he was not an ass, Some can argue that he took care of #1 when the writing was on the wall, but I don't remember anything adverse. 

Last season Hill had elective surgery for a phantom injury so that he could avoid risking actual injury and get sigend in the off-season. He totally, 100% quit on the Bengals when the writing was know the wall that his playing time was cut and he wasn't being resigned.

He proved to be an ass and was hot garbage with the exception of 9 games his rookie year. As for all of the short yardage TDs... that one season... That's the easiest TD/play in football. Dude sucked hard and then quit when it was to his advantage. Worthless player in the end.

Sig Bet? Hill will have less than 350 all purpose yards for NE in 2018.

If they cut Mike Johnson, which they should, then they have plenty of $ to resign both Geno and Carlos. They are both excellent players. Unfortunately their wall is approaching. I think we've seen their best on the field already.

(04-03-2018, 09:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Getting rid of Dunlap would be really not smart. Plus, they have already said they are working on deals to extend both him and Geno. Geno will be hugely expensive, Dunlap not so much. He already got his big deal.....

Dunlap has not gotten his big deal. His big contract was 5 years at $39.3 Mil He'll make $7.3 Mil this season, his highest paid year to date. This past off season the Bucs gave a one-handed JPP a 3 year $35.7 mil contract and he'll name over $5 mil more than Carlos this year. Hell Vinny Curry cannot carry Carlos' jock and just signed 3 years at $23 mil.

Los will want to be paid and rightly so. 

(04-03-2018, 09:59 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Which part about Dunlap don't you agree about?

I can see Truck's point about Willis and Lawson. They may not be able to replace him, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if we went D-end this draft.

There's a chance he doesn't want to be here and pull a Carson. Did you hear about his "I don't know the plan" tweet after Whitworth/Zeitler/Burkhead leaving?

Then, there was this gem on his Instagram last season: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/9/15/16314662/carlos-dunlap-hints-frustration-bengals-start 
His Super Bowl love aspirations: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/06/carlos-dunlap-wants-game-changing-play-super-bowl-brandon-graham/

Guy wants to win. And I get the feeling that he doesn't think Cincy will get him there. Keep in mind i'm not saying this is true. I'm only saying what I think Dunlap thinks. 

That I don't know the plan tweet was dead on.

(04-03-2018, 10:02 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Last season Hill had elective surgery for a phantom injury so that he could avoid risking actual injury and get sigend in the off-season. He totally, 100% quit on the Bengals when the writing was know the wall that his playing time was cut and he wasn't being resigned.

He proved to be an ass and was hot garbage with the exception of 9 games his rookie year. As for all of the short yardage TDs... that one season... That's the easiest TD/play in football. Dude sucked hard and then quit when it was to his advantage. Worthless player in the end.

Sig Bet? Hill will have less than 350 all purpose yards for NE in 2018.

If he even makes the team ? NE isn't in love with players/contracts and loyalty the way MB is !

(04-03-2018, 10:02 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Last season Hill had elective surgery for a phantom injury so that he could avoid risking actual injury and get sigend in the off-season. He totally, 100% quit on the Bengals when the writing was know the wall that his playing time was cut and he wasn't being resigned.

He proved to be an ass and was hot garbage with the exception of 9 games his rookie year. As for all of the short yardage TDs... that one season... That's the easiest TD/play in football. Dude sucked hard and then quit when it was to his advantage. Worthless player in the end.

Sig Bet? Hill will have less than 350 all purpose yards for NE in 2018.

Which was the "one" season that Hill excelled in TDs? Dude had 29 TDs 3 seasons. No doubt his play diminished  in 2017 but he was never an "ass" as the OP suggested. Hell even when Marvin threw him under the bus he didn't retaliate; unlike John Ross. 

(04-03-2018, 10:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Dunlap has not gotten his big deal. His big contract was 5 years at $39.3 Mil He'll make $7.3 Mil this season, his highest paid year to date. This past off season the Bucs gave a one-handed JPP a 3 year $35.7 mil contract and he'll name over $5 mil more than Carlos this year. Hell Vinny Curry cannot carry Carlos' jock and just signed 3 years at $23 mil.

Los will want to be paid and rightly so. 

My point is not that Dunlap won't be expensive, it is that he already received his life changing money.... almost 40 million dollars. That takes the urgency out of the situation. Yes, he is going to want to get paid, and the Bengals will pay him, as they should. But, he also has been around and seen his friends like MJ leave for more money and greener pastures, and be miserable. He is happy here, he will get a deal done with the team. I have no doubt....

(04-03-2018, 10:20 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If he even makes the team ? NE isn't in love with players/contracts and loyalty the way MB is !

I actually had "gets cut or....", but then felt like it was redundant. He's not getting 350 for NE if they cut him.

Hell, with my luck lately the Emperor will have him running like Corey Dillon. And you know what.... Good on Hill if he does that!

(04-03-2018, 10:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Which was the "one" season that Hill excelled in TDs? Dude had 29 TDs 3 seasons. No doubt his play diminished  in 2017 but he was never an "ass" as the OP suggested. Hell even when Marvin threw him under the bus he didn't retaliate; unlike John Ross. 

He didn't say "an ass", he said Hill "was ass".  As in, he sucked ass. :andy:

(04-03-2018, 10:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Which was the "one" season that Hill excelled in TDs? Dude had 29 TDs 3 seasons. No doubt his play diminished  in 2017 but he was never an "ass" as the OP suggested. Hell even when Marvin threw him under the bus he didn't retaliate; unlike John Ross. 

Here's where I'm coming from....

In 2014 Hill had 9 TDs in basically 9 games of full time action and put in 1100+ yards (5.1 per) with 27 catches. AWESOME


I was referring to 2015 where he had less than 800 yards (3.6 per) and 11 TDs with a longest run of 38. He also only had 15 receptions. That's a massive drop off from 2014. Except for the short yardage TDs, which was what I was referring to with the... 9 games of greatness early and then garbage after.

- Then he had a dumpy 2016. 9 TDs, sure, but the avg per stunk (again) and he looked awful in general. The guy just didn't work out and was a poor performer two years in. Row, except for 1 stat... TDs, which I was saying seemed to come in shorter yardage plays... The easiest TD to get.

- 2017 was worse, followed by him quitting half way through the year and putting himself on IR and leaving the team even though he had no significant injury that warranted that.

That is why I think he's an ass and played. Like ass. I don't hate the guy for the decline in production after his 9 game rookie explosion - that happens and the Bengals moved on after giving him 4 seasons to recapture his magic. I do blame him for the playoff loss in 2015 and his quitting in 2017. I find that to be a tell tale sign of who he is.

(04-03-2018, 11:16 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's where I'm coming from....

In 2014 Hill had 9 TDs in basically 9 games of full time action and put in 1100+ yards (5.1 per) with 27 catches. AWESOME


I was referring to 2015 where he had less than 800 yards (3.6 per) and 11 TDs with a longest run of 38. He also only had 15 receptions. That's a massive drop off from 2014. Except for the short yardage TDs, which was what I was referring to with the... 9 games of greatness early and then garbage after.

- Then he had a dumpy 2016. 9 TDs, sure, but the avg per stunk (again) and he looked awful in general. The guy just didn't work out and was a poor performer two years in. Row, except for 1 stat... TDs, which I was saying seemed to come in shorter yardage plays... The easiest TD to get.

- 2017 was worse, followed by him quitting half way through the year and putting himself on IR and leaving the team even though he had no significant injury that warranted that.

That is why I think he's an ass and played. Like ass. I don't hate the guy for the decline in production after his 9 game rookie explosion - that happens and the Bengals moved on after giving him 4 seasons to recapture his magic. I do blame him for the playoff loss in 2015 and his quitting in 2017. I find that to be a tell tale sign of who he is.

Fair enough, we'll just have to disagree, I always seem to support the RBs more than most. I think I was the only Ced Benson fan left on the board by the time he left.

Let's make this thread about Carlos and I apologize for any derailment.  

(04-03-2018, 10:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Dunlap has not gotten his big deal. His big contract was 5 years at $39.3 Mil He'll make $7.3 Mil this season, his highest paid year to date. This past off season the Bucs gave a one-handed JPP a 3 year $35.7 mil contract and he'll name over $5 mil more than Carlos this year. Hell Vinny Curry cannot carry Carlos' jock and just signed 3 years at $23 mil.

Los will want to be paid and rightly so. 

I project him at around 9-11 million a year range putting him between Cameron Wake and Cameron Jordan. I think that is a fair price to pay him and I don't think it hinders us from paying Geno. With Andy coming out and saying he expects to play out his contract which is a steal we have flexibility for a couple years to front load it.

(04-03-2018, 08:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If it’s a choice between him and Geno you do.

Well maybe you don't pay Dre Kirkpatrick 10 million a year.

If the choice was between Dre and Los......... what would that choice be?

(04-03-2018, 04:34 AM)Shady Wrote: I'd be happy with Tevan Bryan in the first round.

Tevan Bryan sounds kinda like a project. According to nfl.com he's athletically gifted, but doesn't have a feel for the game yet. Not much production in terms of sacks yet as a result, but lots of potential. 

Sounds like a second round pick to me. If he drops to us there maybe. I don't want a project in the first round.

(04-03-2018, 08:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: Dude is 29 not sure why people want to move on. He was the 23rd rated edge defender last season by PFF get pass rusher (not great) plays the run well and gets into passing lanes when he doesn't get to the QB. He isn't going to break they bank and the draft this year is simply bad at DE. Willis will be the heir to Michael Johnson, but Lawson will never be a base formation DE so we have no heir and frankly I wouldn't trust Willis and rookie next season to man the ship.

I don't want to move on from him yet. But he is 29. I'd like to see us sign him for 3 years, 8 or 9 mil per year. Gives us time to find his replacement. We don't lose him until he's 32 or 33 years old. It'd be nice to find someone in the draft this year, but like you said, it's a bad draft for defensive end, unless your picking in the top 5. 

Will we keep both? I don't know. Could we keep both? Absolutely and we should. Geno obviously shouldn't go anywhere but neither should Dunlap. He is a top flight Defensive End and that shouldn't just be allowed to walk out the door. How many times have the Bengals made this mistake before??? Choosing Hall or Joseph when they could have paid both. Deciding they could only get back one of Kirkpatrick, Whitworth, or Zeitler when they absolutely should have and could have paid Whitworth and Zeitler (let Kirkpatrick walk). The line was awful last year and now we have to invest in trades and likely an early draft pick just to replace those guys a year later. Keep Geno and Dunlap even if it means franchise tagging one of them next year.

THE Bigzoman Wrote:If you look through social media post 2015, he's made a lot of passive aggressive jabs at the bengals. He probably doesn't want to come back anyway...

I noticed that, too. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? I wouldn't want to see him leave, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised to see 'Los go to greener pastures where he might be happier. Or richer. Or something.