(09-02-2015, 04:01 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Simple question. Answer the poll.

Thank you

Obviously Andy has the better odds, so its a loaded question. Still guess who I voted for?

(09-02-2015, 09:25 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: In my time as a football fan, I've never seen more hype surrounding a 5th round QB from a fanbase.  I don't know if it's because Alabama was so good during his time there, him and his wife are well known, or that some hate Andy Dalton so much.  It just doesn't make sense to me for people to be that much more hopeful for AJ McCarron than they were for Donald Hollas (4), John Walsk (7), Scott Covington (7), Casey Bramlet (7) and Jeff Rowe (5).

Someone explain it to me, why do we spend so much time on this guy?  As much as some homers hyped Dan Lefevour, I'd have to guess he saw about a 1/4 the talk that McCarron does.  Why?

You hit the nail on the head buddy. It's because people like me watched him dominate at Alabama and many analysts thought he was a 2nd round caliber QB coming out. Also he's stayed in the press mainly due to his GF and many people are not that high on Andy right now. Not to mention AJ has the primetime showmanship that so many people wish Dalton could show. 

So yeah its like the perfect storm for backup QB hype. 

(09-02-2015, 01:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: This paragraph sums it up. McCaron is that lotto ticket everyone is hoping turns out to be a winner, when in reality we all know chances are it won't happen.

Can we all agree that AJM is probably better than LeFevour and the guy that puked last year though?

I think AJM will be a good backup QB, but I don't have enough to go on yet. I do think it's silly if people are going to pencil him in as a starter though. He hasn't shown much, but everything we've seen from him in college, practice, and preseason tells me that he's probably at least a little better than the other backup QBs that Jungle Noise has hyped in the past.

Dalton is the easy choice. Thanks to his solid play over the last 4 years, he will have a starting gig in the NFL for a long time. Whether or not you think QB's should get credit for wins, teams will look at the fact that Dalton was the QB of a team that made the playoffs 4 years in a row. I'm sure a team like the Bills would be THRILLED to have Andy Dalton as their QB right now.

As for Dalton's future with the Bengals, a lot rides on this season. I think he rebounds with a healthy group around him, but I'm not sure any QB will win a playoff game with Marv at the helm.

As for McCarron, I like what I've seen so far. I've mentioned that his poor interviews combined with preexisting injury possibly caused him to slip, but who knows? I do know he's looked better than any 5th round QB I've seen. I like how he keeps his eyes downfield when dealing with pressure. I like that when he rolls away from pressure, he makes sure to set his feet before throwing. His leadership qualities seem to be as advertised. His accuracy has been good.

That said, we've only seen McCarron make 32 preseason throws. It's kinda tough to predict his NFL future based on that.

I can only make a case for one side of the argument.

People fell in love with Fitzbeard in the 2008 preseason also.


No way you can make a case for a guy that has played slightly less than 1 preseason game and have not taken 1 snap during a meaningful game.
The sample size is not even big enough make an argument.

(09-02-2015, 10:14 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think AD is a lot better than some of our fans think.

I hope AJ and AD have great NFL careers. I see 2 guys with similar skill sets, I think they both are talented, but neither have elite talent like Rodgers, Brady, Luck or others.

I think the part some fans ignore is AD is a smart QB and guys like Griffin who are much more talented physically lack the brain power so in the end, they fail even with more natural ability physically.

Just wanted to point out some errors in your post. Griffin has a very high football IQ. His problem is he's been Klingerized.

Now on to our players,
AD and AJ seem to both have about the same physical skills. And that's where that comparison ends.
Let's get this out the way now.
AD is an average to slightly below average qb and doesn't show signs of being much more than average.
AJ is slightly below average, but shows signs that he can be better than average.

So we have 2 QB's that seem to be equal with one being the Vet that's done good things already and has a leg up in that department over the the new guy (which is the way it should be until the new guy gets his chance).

AJ seems to have better ball placement
AJ seems to have better pocket awareness
AJ seems to have better route anticipation
AD hasn't shown much progression since season 2.

Of course for now, it's AD's job to lose, but if he gets hurt or is playing very badly, Marvin shouldn't hesitate to insert AJ into the line up.

(09-02-2015, 01:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: This paragraph sums it up. McCaron is that lotto ticket everyone is hoping turns out to be a winner, when in reality we all know chances are it won't happen.

Yea well if McCarron is a lottery ticket then betting on Dalton is like confidently strutting up to the roulette wheel and putting $5 on black and $4 on red just to play it safe.

(09-02-2015, 04:01 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Simple question. Answer the poll.

Thank you

Compare the four year veteran to the guy with zero real game experience?  In that other thread, you said nobody can tell anything about McCarron because he hasn't played a regular season game.  Maybe the question isn't so simple.  With one of them, there is four years of tape.  With the other, none, which means to pick AJ, it has to be speculation.

(09-02-2015, 02:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: .AD is an average to slightly below average qb and doesn't show signs of being much more than average.
AJ is slightly below average, but shows signs that he can be better than average.

I disagree with your first sentence. Dalton has shown many times that he has the ability to be a great QB. Look at all the games with over 100 QB rating he's had in his career. His problem is that he's inconsistent and when he has a bad day, he has a BAD day. However, if he were to be more consistent (something he started out last season doing), then he'd easily be considered an above average QB, if not a great one.

As to your 2nd statement, how? What has AJM done to show he can be better than average? 'Cause, honestly,it'll take more than playing well against a bad defense in the preseason to do that. I'm not saying he can't. He definitely looks promising, but you can't make ANY definitive statements about AJM with only 2 preseason games under his belt.

(09-02-2015, 09:25 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Well, to be fair, Andy Dalton has had more success as a starting QB than Rey Mauluga has had as a LB.  This was a guy, who at one point, graded out to be the very worst starting LB in the NFL.  Not to mention that the success rate for 3rd LB's (where Dawson was taken) is much higher than that of 5th round QB's.  I do get where you're going with this though, but I just wanted to point out that the comparison is not apples to apples.

In my time as a football fan, I've never seen more hype surrounding a 5th round QB from a fanbase.  I don't know if it's because Alabama was so good during his time there, him and his wife are well known, or that some hate Andy Dalton so much.  It just doesn't make sense to me for people to be that much more hopeful for AJ McCarron than they were for Donald Hollas (4), John Walsk (7), Scott Covington (7), Casey Bramlet (7) and Jeff Rowe (5).

Someone explain it to me, why do we spend so much time on this guy?  As much as some homers hyped Dan Lefevour, I'd have to guess he saw about a 1/4 the talk that McCarron does.  Why?

People saw AJ do good things, noticed, liked it and said as much.  Don't know why that bothers you.  That's the hype, in a nutshell.  Yes, there are people doing this, what you've done, exaggerating the amount of praise he's gotten.  This has become a phenomenon in its own right.

It's like anything else--maybe an extremist or two says something and suddenly, there's some mythical hype train rolling.

In reality, most people have been pretty low key, which is what they usually are.  He played well, it's acknowledged and that's about the end of it until the exaggerators jump in.

It's like homers vs. haters, there's a few of each and the rest are in between.

(09-02-2015, 02:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Just wanted to point out some errors in your post. Griffin has a very high football IQ. His problem is he's been Klingerized.

Now on to our players,
AD and AJ seem to both have about the same physical skills. And that's where that comparison ends.
Let's get this out the way now.
AD is an average to slightly below average qb and doesn't show signs of being much more than average.
AJ is slightly below average, but shows signs that he can be better than average.

So we have 2 QB's that seem to be equal with one being the Vet that's done good things already and has a leg up in that department over the the new guy (which is the way it should be until the new guy gets his chance).

AJ seems to have better ball placement
AJ seems to have better pocket awareness
AJ seems to have better route anticipation
AD hasn't shown much progression since season 2.

Of course for now, it's AD's job to lose, but if he gets hurt or is playing very badly, Marvin shouldn't hesitate to insert AJ into the line up.

The only disagreement I have is with the statement that RG3 has high football IQ. He may talk eloquently and seem like a smart guy but his football IQ is full ******. Watching him for 3 years while in DC was maddening even though I didn't care for the redskins. 

(09-02-2015, 01:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: This paragraph sums it up. McCaron is that lotto ticket everyone is hoping turns out to be a winner, when in reality we all know chances are it won't happen.

But what if it did happen?  

Those thoughts creep into everyone's mind though I think. Even the most diehard Dalton supporters.  

It really just comes down to the 4 playoff loses in a row I think.  I'm not blaming Dalton for everything that happened, but he never carried the team in any of those games and we are going to have to have him do that for at least 1 game to get to the Super Bowl.  
I think he is capable of doing it, but he just has not thus far.

(09-02-2015, 03:40 PM)McC Wrote: People saw AJ do good things, noticed, liked it and said as much.  Don't know why that bothers you.  That's the hype, in a nutshell.  Yes, there are people doing this, what you've done, exaggerating the amount of praise he's gotten.  This has become a phenomenon in its own right.

It's like anything else--maybe an extremist or two says something and suddenly, there's some mythical hype train rolling.

In reality, most people have been pretty low key, which is what they usually are.  He played well, it's acknowledged and that's about the end of it until the exaggerators jump in.

It's like homers vs. haters, there's a few of each and the rest are in between.

I don't know if you listen to much local talk radio but I've heard a lot of people yammering about how AJ needs to get a shot.  It was the point where Lance felled compelled to address it on his blog, here: http://www.espn1530.com/onair/lance-mcalister-7818/bengals-repeat-after-me-there-is-13902264/

So, I'm sorry, I don't think I'm exaggerating anything.  I'm not sure or not if you follow the chatter outside of the bubble that is Jungle Noise but I assure you it's more than just a few people.  And I'm not sure I've seen this amount of "hype" surround a later round pick QB ever in my 30 plus years of watching the Bengals.  It seems different to me this time.  I think that may because so many have doubts about Dalton that they're desperate to look for an heir apparent, mixed with the recent success of Alabama.

As far people seeing "good things" from him, and that's it in a nutshell.  Again, we've seen "good things" from plenty of QB's in the preseason.  I just can't ever remember so many wanting to late round pick to have a chance to start.  It has nothing to do with it bothering me that he's done well and everything to do with it striking me as unusual.

This thread is just another "Andy debate" magnet. And really nothing either side says will sway the other side.

As to us getting past our playoff issue, QB play has been WAY down the list in the cause column. Far more of an issue has been:

a) Defensive Line getting blown off the ball like boys leading to zero pass pressure, neat pockets and astronomical run yardage given up.

b) Offensive Line (especially the interior) getting owned by the opposing defense in the playoffs. End result is run gets stuffed and pass plays have little time to develop and QB has no pocket to step up into.

c) Mystifying scheme and other coaching calls on our side.

These are way more important. If our lines would even just hold their own in a playoff game I think we would have wins by now but they don't - they both get blown off the ball with ease.

(09-02-2015, 02:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yea well if McCarron is a lottery ticket then betting on Dalton is like confidently strutting up to the roulette wheel and putting $5 on black and $4 on red just to play it safe.

Can't argue with that one. Dalton is the guy you know will keep you competitive and have his half dozen games where he looks like a stud, but you know he isn't the answer moving forward. It sucks but it's the truth.

Can't we just agree that the team is stuck until they piss away their integrity a la Indianapolis and tank a season to land the next sure fire QB?

All these threads are irrelevant since Dalton and McCarron are essentially the exact same guy.

(09-02-2015, 11:56 AM)Okeana Wrote: If you ask who has the better upside.  I think at this point we have to say AJ, but he's an unknown factor and dalton isn't.  I however won't answer the poll because its irrelevant

Why is it not releveant? These are the 2 QBs we have on our roster...many fans disagree regarding how good McCarron will be so I decided to ask the fans how favorably they compare him to a guy like Dalton.

Is it a tough question to answer based upon his limited sample size.....sure but to say it's irrelevant is outrageous.

(09-02-2015, 03:56 PM)Joelist Wrote: This thread is just another "Andy debate" magnet. And really nothing either side says will sway the other side.

As to us getting past our playoff issue, QB play has been WAY down the list in the cause column. Far more of an issue has been:

a) Defensive Line getting blown off the ball like boys leading to zero pass pressure, neat pockets and astronomical run yardage given up.

b) Offensive Line (especially the interior) getting owned by the opposing defense in the playoffs. End result is run gets stuffed and pass plays have little time to develop and QB has no pocket to step up into.

c) Mystifying scheme and other coaching calls on our side.

These are way more important. If our lines would even just hold their own in a playoff game I think we would have wins by now but they don't - they both get blown off the ball with ease.

Oh, wow. Joelist coming into a thread and deflecting everything away from Andy?

SHOCKER!

(09-02-2015, 02:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Just wanted to point out some errors in your post. Griffin has a very high football IQ. His problem is he's been Klingerized.

Now on to our players,
AD and AJ seem to both have about the same physical skills. And that's where that comparison ends.
Let's get this out the way now.
AD is an average to slightly below average qb and doesn't show signs of being much more than average.
AJ is slightly below average, but shows signs that he can be better than average.

So we have 2 QB's that seem to be equal with one being the Vet that's done good things already and has a leg up in that department over the the new guy (which is the way it should be until the new guy gets his chance).

AJ seems to have better ball placement
AJ seems to have better pocket awareness
AJ seems to have better route anticipation
AD hasn't shown much progression since season 2.

Of course for now, it's AD's job to lose, but if he gets hurt or is playing very badly, Marvin shouldn't hesitate to insert AJ into the line up.

I like AJ, let me say that first.

However, I have no idea how you can rate ball placement, pocket awareness, route anticipation and since 2013 was AD's best year (year #3) I have no idea you basis for what to me appears to be a lot of assumptions. AJ has not played one regular season NFL team yet, he has yet to play one NFL team who game planned to stop him and our offense.

As far as football IQ, it has been proven Griffin struggles reading defenses where AD has quickly become very good. AD audibles well as has been given the authority to audible according to Hue Jackson, this speaks volumes of his football IQ. Griffin has proven to be Vick #2, a great athlete who struggles to see the game. The problem with Griffin is his speed has diminished due to injury and I am not sure nor is Gruden he will ever be able to a pocket passer.

When McCarron is in the NFL for 4 seasons, we'll know.

The only reason people believe he could be good is because he was the QB of NICK SABAN led Alabama teams who won championships (emphasis on led) and people saw him play as good as Dalton for 1 half of a preseason game.

I'm sorry, but there is simply no good reason to believe he will be a good starting quarterback in the NFL.