(05-24-2018, 04:12 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The OLine should automatically be better than last year by personnel change alone. I’m curious as to how much improvement you expect to see to justify this god worshipping on here. It is exciting to me to see the change of this coaching position, obviously change was long overdue. I would think that most coaches would prefer a physically dominant guy when it comes to a shoving match, you’re ahead of the game before the X’s and O’s. Does anyone know if the Head Coach or the Offensive Coordinator will have any input on line philosophy? Who dictates who plays? I’m more of a show me things first kinda guy vs. a hype a messiah before any proven results are seen. I’m sure that someone will overreact and say that this makes me not a fan, that’s fine. I am curious about how each of you will judge how well this new coach does. Keep in mind that the OLine roster got a lot better from last year. Some players will also look a tad better just by having a stud playing next to him. I really believe that the line should collapse a lot less this year just by adding the 2 hosses that they did. With these seemingly automatic improvements, what results will you judge Pollack on? Outside of injuries, the line should automatically be a good bit better.

Hey man, i getcha. We haven't seen Pollack coach these guys yet, you are right, the additions of Glenn and Price
alone make this O-line way better from the likes of PA's guys Og and Bodine. I want to see how Pollack coaches
up the likes of Westerman, Redmond, Fisher, Og (who i have no hope for) and the rest of the guys that have yet
to do much in the NFL.

To judge a coach we have to see how he does with the worst players. If he can coach up one or two of these
players into something decent we will know we have a good coach. Still, Pollack coached up a couple guys in
Dallas that were not very good before he got ahold of them. He has a good track record.

PA on the other hand needed polished players for success.

(05-25-2018, 10:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, the men who have dedicated their lives and careers to football don't know anything compared to casual fans.

Just like the Broncos, who won a Super Bowl with their defense, were so much dumber than the guys on this message board when they paid Peko to be their starting DT.  

Maybe the rest of the football word does not know Paul plays piano.  That seems to be one of the big criticisms around here for the "Piano Man".

Don't forget the ketchup. 

(05-25-2018, 06:35 AM)Sabretooth Wrote: If Andy gets adequate protection,the backs aren't caught in the backfield a lot,running lanes are opened, then Pollack is a definite improvement  IMO.

My point is that there should be an upgrade with protection on roster change alone. If they become a top 10 line then Pollack should get credit for that much improvement.

(05-25-2018, 12:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey man, i getcha. We haven't seen Pollack coach these guys yet, you are right, the additions of Glenn and Price
alone make this O-line way better from the likes of PA's guys Og and Bodine. I want to see how Pollack coaches
up the likes of Westerman, Redmond, Fisher, Og (who i have no hope for) and the rest of the guys that have yet
to do much in the NFL.

To judge a coach we have to see how he does with the worst players. If he can coach up one or two of these
players into something decent we will know we have a good coach. Still, Pollack coached up a couple guys in
Dallas that were not very good before he got ahold of them. He has a good track record.

PA on the other hand needed polished players for success.

I kinda think that outside of coaching a player up that they need a coach or coaches that aren’t afraid to cut bait as soon as they see a player is a lost cause. If it looks unanimous to fans that a player is completely worthless, there’s a good chance that he is. Coaches obviously see and know more than us fans but this organization has been slow to cut bait with many players.

(05-25-2018, 12:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: PA on the other hand needed polished players for success.

Not true.

Rich Braham was cut by the Cards before we signed him

Bobbie Williams was considered a bust by the Eagles.

Evan Mathis had been cut by two teams in two years before the Bengals signed him and he played so well in '09.

Kyle Cook was an undrafted free agent who played well here (only six sacks allowed in his first 48 starts) before being cut down by injury.

Stacy Andrews was a 4th round pick who only played a handful of snaps in college.

Boling was a 4th round pick.

(05-25-2018, 03:06 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I kinda think that outside of coaching a player up that they need a coach or coaches that aren’t afraid to cut bait as soon as they see a player is a lost cause. If it looks unanimous to fans that a player is completely worthless, there’s a good chance that he is. Coaches obviously see and know more than us fans but this organization has been slow to cut bait with many players.

Another reason i like Pollack so much more than PA. He is letting the best man win and isn't playing favorites
like PA did when it was obvious to everyone that both Bodine and Ogbuehi were not the answer. Did it many
times, Livings, Guiciuc, Andrews were a few others that were clearly not the answers and he started them.

He also had pull being the assistant HC so we could of drafted a Center before this if he wanted one.

He just thought he could coach some guys up that he clearly could not.

(05-25-2018, 03:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Another reason i like Pollack so much more than PA. He is letting the best man win and isn't playing favorites
like PA did when it was obvious to everyone that both Bodine and Ogbuehi were not the answer. Did it many
times, Livings, Guiciuc, Andrews were a few others that were clearly not the answers and he started them.

Generally there was no one better on the roster.

Ghiaciuc was only a full time starter for two years (it just seemed much longer)

Mathis started over Livings in '09 when he deserved to, and the Cowboys signed Livings to start for them.

Andrews was the best we had on the roster at the time.  He played well enough to ear a $40 million contract in free agency.

(05-25-2018, 03:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not true.

Rich Braham was cut by the Cards before we signed him

Bobbie Williams was considered a bust by the Eagles.

Evan Mathis had been cut by two teams in two years before the Bengals signed him and he played so well in '09.

Kyle Cook was an undrafted free agent who played well here (only six sacks allowed in his first 48 starts) before being cut down by injury.

Stacy Andrews was a 4th round pick who only played a handful of snaps in college.

Boling was a 4th round pick.

Braham, Bobbie and Boling were still pretty polished, don't care what other teams thought of Braham and Bobbie.

We have went back and forth on the Mathis thing who i thought was always better than Livings. Yet Livings always
got more starts here cause of injury or not and Mathis went on to be a Probowler with the Eagles. The guys that PA
did well with were polished when he got them IMO.

We just disagree on this one Fred, always will.

Funny how I am still making the same PA posts even after he is gone.

I want to make it clear that our O-line was such a mess last year that I have no problem with PA being let go. But he was a good coach for a long time here. However when you take two o-linemen in the first two rounds and get nothing fro either it is time to move on.

(05-25-2018, 03:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Generally there was no one better on the roster.

Ghiaciuc was only a full time starter for two years (it just seemed much longer)

Mathis started over Livings in '09 when he deserved to, and the Cowboys signed Livings to start for them.

Andrews was the best we had on the roster at the time.  He played well enough to ear a $40 million contract in free agency.

As i said, the part you left out conveniently...

PA was the Assistant HC, he could of drafted some guys earlier if he truly thought he needed him, but he didn't.

He thought he could coach these guys up.

How long did Livings and Andrews last after they left here BTW?

(05-25-2018, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how I am still making the same PA posts even after he is gone.

I want to make it clear that our O-line was such a mess last year that I have no problem with PA being let go.  But he was a good coach for a long time here.  However when you take two o-linemen in the first two rounds and get nothing fro either it is time to move on.

Yeah, we have played this one out a million times and i agree, it was time.

(05-25-2018, 03:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: PA was the Assistant HC, he could of drafted some guys earlier if he truly thought he needed him, but he didn't.

No he could not.  He did not have that power.

(05-25-2018, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he could not.  He did not have that power.

We don't know that.

(05-25-2018, 03:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We don't know that.

We don't know that he did.  But I have never in any sport ever heard of a coach that did not want th best players possible.  So if PA did this he is the first one ever that I know of.

(05-25-2018, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We don't know that he did.  But I have never in any sport ever heard of a coach that did not want th best players possible.  So if PA did this he is the first one ever that I know of.

Don't know how many times he defended poor play and said we were fine.

Saying it was a witch hunt pointing out Bodine's poor play etc.

(05-25-2018, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how I am still making the same PA posts even after he is gone.

I want to make it clear that our O-line was such a mess last year that I have no problem with PA being let go.  But he was a good coach for a long time here.  However when you take two o-linemen in the first two rounds and get nothing fro either it is time to move on.

Fair enough. I was done when we started finishing in the 20's every year in YPC. That's the true way to determine rushing success. 

Quality over quantity.

(05-25-2018, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how I am still making the same PA posts even after he is gone.

I want to make it clear that our O-line was such a mess last year that I have no problem with PA being let go.  But he was a good coach for a long time here.  However when you take two o-linemen in the first two rounds and get nothing fro either it is time to move on.

Funny how in a thread celebrating the new OL coach, you can't help but continue defending the guy that was finally shitcanned.  

(05-25-2018, 10:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Funny how in a thread celebrating the new OL coach, you can't help but continue defending the guy that was finally shitcanned.  

Because everyone else can't stop bashing him.

(05-26-2018, 11:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because everyone else can't stop bashing him.

(05-26-2018, 11:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because everyone else can't stop bashing him.

Why are you the self appointed defender of all things Bengals ?

Fred 10 years ago and back the guy was a decent coach. But for the last several years the guy fell way behind the times and his ego refused to let him change. Face it Fred PA is a giant part of the reason this team has struggled the last few seasons.

Quite Frankly he deserves the bashing he's getting !