(05-30-2018, 01:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. The point was good players and he had no names at RB

2. Exactly 2 rookie TEs were his receiving threat in an MVP season

Just read the last 3 pages, it really takes less time than it did for you to type that response and give your objective opinion on the issue(s) debated. Or don't. 

1. Ok then. The o-line was great at run blocking. So he did have good players around him. I mean, they ran well for some reason.

2. Why does it matter if they're rookies when we're talking about the GOAT TE (arguably) and another stud TE? If they were "unsubstantial" as you put it, Brady would've thrown elsewhere. Instead, he got 28% of his yards and 44% of his TD's from these "unsubstantial" rookies.

Brownshoe explained, thanks.  

(05-29-2018, 10:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The proof is that you cannot provide on example of a receiver doing great after he left NE; 

Jabar Gaffney.

(05-30-2018, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jabar Gaffney.

Lol, labeling Jabar Gaffney as 'Great' is hilarious.

I guess Antonio Bryant, Brandon Lafell and Terrell Pryor were great too. 

(05-30-2018, 03:24 PM)873513 Wrote: Lol, labeling Jabar Gaffney as 'Great' is hilarious.

I guess Antonio Bryant, Brandon Lafell and Terrell Pryor were great too. 

Not "great" but the point is his production improved dramatically after he left the Patriots.

Best season with Pats was 38 catches.  He then had 54 and 65 receptions for the Broncos in '09-'10 and 68 for the Redskins in 2011.

(05-30-2018, 12:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This is fun.

Mo Sanu average while at Cincy:
448.25 yds/yr, 2.75 TDs/year, 38 catches/yr

Mo Sanu average while at ATL:
678 yds/year, 4.5 TDs/year, 63 catches/yr

Marvin Jones while at Cincy:
432.25 yds/yr, 3.75 TDs/yr, 33.5 catches/yr

Marvin Jones at DET:
1015.5 yds/yr, 6.5 TDs/yr, 58 catches/yr

The "prove me wrong" season for Welker: he went from 118 catches for 1352 yards to 73 catches for 778 yards (aka nothing)

Sure Brady had Dillon in 2005 and he actually played in 12 games (starting in 10) gained 733 yards at 3.5 YPC.

I could find other years, but it would just be something else.

I love it when you post stats and prove me wrong. 

Marvin Jones missed a lot of games, and sat the bench early during his tenure in Cincy......jus sayin....

(05-30-2018, 05:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Marvin Jones missed a lot of games, and sat the bench early during his tenure in Cincy......jus sayin....

Not to mention totally different style of offenses. Atlanta and Detroit pretty much throw the ball 50-60 times a game.

(05-30-2018, 02:36 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: This thread is becoming hilarious.

Tom Brady is the greatest QB in the history of the NFL. Stop attempting to discredit his greatness by talking bout how many great weapons he's had in his career. He has proven without a shadow of a doubt that he elevates mediocre wideouts and can carry the team on his back.

How far will the Dalton fans go?!?!

You must remember: They only deal in facts. 

(05-30-2018, 06:11 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not to mention totally different style of offenses. Atlanta and Detroit pretty much throw the ball 50-60 times a game.

That's true as well.....

(05-30-2018, 02:36 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Tom Brady is the greatest QB in the history of the NFL. Stop attempting to discredit his greatness by talking bout how many great weapons he's had in his career. He has proven without a shadow of a doubt that he elevates mediocre wideouts and can carry the team on his back.

I agree with everything you said here. With that said, why is it wrong to point out the great players Brady has around him, but it's okay to point out the great players Dalton has around him? I've seen a lot of people on these forums try to discredit Dalton by pointing out the talent around him. Why is it okay to do so for Dalton, but not for Brady? (For the record, I don't think EITHER should be discredited because of surrounding talent)

This thread is like a dog chasing it's tail.... Almost like 2 drunks fighting, "you sit down, no you sit down".....

(05-31-2018, 02:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: This thread is like a dog chasing it's tail.... Almost like 2 drunks fighting, "you sit down, no you sit down".....

Yep

It is OK to agree to disagree. For me, I see both sides of the argument. I wish we had a Tom Brady, but we don't so we need a great defense and surrounding parts. Heck, the Ravens won with Flacco whom is mediocre to the core, but got hot at the right time.

(05-31-2018, 02:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: This thread is like a dog chasing it's tail.... Almost like 2 drunks fighting, "you sit down, no you sit down".....

But which drunk had the best quality of alcohol to drink before the fight  ? 

Did the drunk with the lesser reputation have to drink more cheap Vodka than the one with the greater reputation which had more High Quality Whiskey to drink ?

Would the outcome of the fight have been different had the two drunks had to switch what they each drank before the fight ?  (vodka/whiskey to whiskey/vodka)  (Dalton's receivers/Brady's receivers) ?

(05-25-2018, 07:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure how bfine will look foolish as all he has done is taken a realistic look at Andy's performance to date. Foolish is trying to use 3 Pro Bowls (none of which he was selected for) as some sort of qualifier to make a year in which he finished 25th in passer rating look like a good year. 

Did the the Andy's an elite QB guys look foolish last year? bfine pegged him around 17th and he finished 18th. Who knows maybe Van Pelt can do something with him, but if I'm going to Vegas and laying money down tonight about how Andy will rate against the rest of the NFL QBs in 2018. I'm going middle 1/3. 

Had to go looking for this for a bit Bfine but wanted to respond if you responded to my post.

I understand your points, i just think with a decent O-line and running game Dalton will be much better than he has been.

Ahead of the season i am going to rate him around 10-12. Will take time for the O-line to gel but once it does he could be
right back to where he was in 2015 when he was a top 5 QB before the injury. Will be interesting going back and reading
this thread and seeing if people own up and eat some crow.

I will if i was wrong and Dalton is middle 1/3.

(05-31-2018, 02:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: This thread is like a dog chasing it's tail.... Almost like 2 drunks fighting, "you sit down, no you sit down".....

This thread jumped the shark when someone invoked the name of that guy who tosses pig up there in Foxboro.

I think it's amusing the stance a successful franchise takes vs a fledgling one, as it relates to the QB postion

One has a Hall Of Fame, 2x Super Bowl winning QB. One of the best to ever play the game, who is still playing at a high/elite level

This teams uses a early round pick to get Mason Rudolph, a player who in college was way better/more impressive than your entrenched Qb anyway.


The Bengals, meanwhile, are too afraid to draft a Qb because it would put 'too much pressure' on our incumbent, below avg Qb who can't read defenses, make adjustments or lead his team to big game w's 7 years into the league.


I wonder why the Steelers own the Bengals.

Yes, Brady is a great QB, Dalton is a very good QB, Palmer was a very good QB, Kitna was mediocre QB, Akili Smith was a horrible QB. The only thing is that Brady was never our QB

(06-01-2018, 09:59 AM)873513 Wrote: I think it's amusing the stance a successful franchise takes vs a fledgling one, as it relates to the QB postion

One has a Hall Of Fame, 2x Super Bowl winning QB.  One of the best to ever play the game,  who is still playing at a high/elite level

This teams uses a early round pick to get Mason Rudolph, a player who in college was way better/more impressive than your entrenched Qb anyway.


The Bengals, meanwhile, are too afraid to draft a Qb because it would put 'too much pressure' on our incumbent, below avg Qb who can't read defenses, make adjustments or lead his team to big game w's 7 years into the league.


I wonder why the Steelers own the Bengals.

C'mon man, what QBs were the Steelers drafting 5 years ago when Ben was Andy's age?

(06-01-2018, 09:59 AM)873513 Wrote: who can't read defenses, make adjustments

62.3% completion percentage, 25,500+ yards, 167 TDs, 93 INT are AMAZING career stats for a QB who can't read defenses or make adjustments. Why would you call that kind of QB 'below avg'?

(06-01-2018, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon man, what QBs were the Steelers drafting 5 years ago when Ben was Andy's age?

Part of me can understand the criticism that the Bengals are content to just hold with a decent QB rather than chase a new one, but as you touched upon, the 2 guys in the division who have SB titles also have a bad back and/or threaten to retire every year.

(06-01-2018, 09:59 AM)873513 Wrote: I think it's amusing the stance a successful franchise takes vs a fledgling one, as it relates to the QB postion

One has a Hall Of Fame, 2x Super Bowl winning QB. One of the best to ever play the game, who is still playing at a high/elite level

This teams uses a early round pick to get Mason Rudolph, a player who in college was way better/more impressive than your entrenched Qb anyway.


The Bengals, meanwhile, are too afraid to draft a Qb because it would put 'too much pressure' on our incumbent, below avg Qb who can't read defenses, make adjustments or lead his team to big game w's 7 years into the league.


I wonder why the Steelers own the Bengals.

I have a feeling you have a lot of piss yellow and black in your closet...

Not that I even completely disagree with you here but this board is supposed to be for Bengals fans only.