(08-09-2018, 07:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Exactly.  Since when does being a quitter earn you a spot on this show?  It seems like a gifted opportunity to that a shot at the Bengals.

I will point out that the rookie Dalton took that same team to the playoffs after Palmer quit, and he did that with no OTAs. 

I have nothing but hate for the guy now.  Well, not hate like the steelers, but I don't care for him at all.  

Where he threw 3 interceptions and played like total ass. All while laughing it up on the sidelines. That was honestly every bit as infuriating as Palmer demanding a trade.

(08-09-2018, 08:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Where he threw 3 interceptions and played like total ass. All while laughing it up on the sidelines. That was honestly every bit as infuriating as Palmer demanding a trade.

So you would have rather had him moping around or screaming and yelling? He knew he was playing like shit and none of that would've helped; moving on does.

(08-09-2018, 09:04 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So you would have rather had him moping around or screaming and yelling? He knew he was playing like shit and none of that would've helped; moving on does.

I sure as hell didn’t appreciate seeing him laughing.

I swear Dalton is completely above criticism to some of you.

(08-09-2018, 01:06 AM)Go Cards Wrote: The problem with the arguments for Carson hating MB and wanting out are faulted because he could have left as a FA.

But signed that 100 million dollar contract and then held the team hostage slinging mud and laughing about the money he had in bank because of Cincy.

Then the tell was that the team immediately got better after his departure.  

Was a big fan but just can not respect him, I am sorry.  

Yet am interested to hear what he says.

Carson signed that contract a week before his knee got ripped to shreds by Pittsburgh. At the time he signed that contract, it looked like the team was going nowhere but up. The Bengals were a rising young team and just about everyone agreed the team had turned a corner. In his first 3 years as a Bengal, everything looked great. He would have been foolish not to sign an extension. 

Fast forward 5 years, and it's clear Mike Brown is still calling the shots (i.e. Ruining the team) and that maybe Marv isn't the best option as a head coach. Who knows what changes Carson wanted, but clearly a few of Marvins demands were met (I think they were all met this time around in January... Hopefully). 

The 2011 Bengals saw immediate success because they got rid of two of the biggest problems on the field, Chad and TO. Also, letting bratkowski go was long over due. We can't forget that the team went 10-6 and swept the AFC North only two years prior. If anything, I think having Carson throwing to AJ and the rest of the young guys would have been better than the rookie Dalton. Who knows how the next 4 years would have played out though...

(08-09-2018, 09:04 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So you would have rather had him moping around or screaming and yelling? He knew he was playing like shit and none of that would've helped; moving on does.

Dalton seldom shows any fire or grit. He's very happy go lucky. Remember his pre game speech before the debacle that was the 2014 Browns game? Pitiful   Dalton was mic'd during the 2012 raiders game when the defender put a late hit on him. I'll never forget he got up and said to the guy, "Hey!.... You can't do that!" Sounded like a whiny kid. 

I wouldn't go so far as to call him "weak". He's taken several beatings and continued to play his heart out for us. But there are times where it's downright painful to hear him speak.

(08-09-2018, 01:06 AM)Go Cards Wrote: The problem with the arguments for Carson hating MB and wanting out are faulted because he could have left as a FA.

But signed that 100 million dollar contract and then held the team hostage slinging mud and laughing about the money he had in bank because of Cincy.

Then the tell was that the team immediately got better after his departure.  

Was a big fan but just can not respect him, I am sorry.  

Yet am interested to hear what he says.

He signed that contract before the playoff injury in 2005, didn't he?  I can't blame him for thinking things had finally changed when he signed that.  Would any of us have believed that the Bengals, having a young QB who is top 3 in the NFL and the SB winning DC of a division rival at HC would still be without a playoff win 12 years later?

I know I was duped.  


Also, this has never been a Carson vs Dalton thing for me because the way I see it, Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis have had the luxury of having two pretty good QBs for the past 14 years and they've gotten nothing out of it. Meanwhile in the NFL teams are in QB hell and cycling through new guys and re-treads and still finding more success than us on a yearly basis. It's frustrating, and it's enough evidence for me to decide who is really at fault here.

(08-09-2018, 09:10 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I sure as hell didn’t appreciate seeing him laughing.

I swear Dalton is completely above criticism to some of you.

You know, laughing is a nervous mechanism for a large percentage of the population when they are nervous or embarrassed..... just saying.

I dont think any of us really know what happened in the Carson fiasco so its really hard to judge the situation and determine who is right, who is wrong, etc.

All I know is that Carson Palmer seems like a pretty good human being and a good guy. I've met him a couple times and hes been nothing but cordial.

It's hard for me to imagine that he wouldn't do what he did unless it was warranted. Palmer has earned the benefit of the doubt with me, not Bengals ownership and the organization.

(08-09-2018, 09:23 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Dalton seldom shows any fire or grit. He's very happy go lucky. Remember his pre game speech before the debacle that was the 2014 Browns game? Pitiful   Dalton was mic'd during the 2012 raiders game when the defender put a late hit on him. I'll never forget he got up and said to the guy, "Hey!.... You can't do that!" Sounded like a whiny kid. 

I wouldn't go so far as to call him "weak". He's taken several beatings and continued to play his heart out for us. But there are times where it's downright painful to hear him speak.

But to continue to get up and come back for more (especially the Buffalo game last season) is.......grit.

(08-09-2018, 10:02 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: But to continue to get up and come back for more (especially the Buffalo game last season) is.......grit.

I’d say that’s Jets game a couple years ago where he got sacked five times and still put on a show and won the game is evidence he has it in him as well. I just want to see it come out more often.

(08-09-2018, 08:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Where he threw 3 interceptions and played like total ass. All while laughing it up on the sidelines. That was honestly every bit as infuriating as Palmer demanding a trade.

Should Gresham receive any blame for that? If I recall correctly, 2 of those picks were in and out of his hands first, with many more drops that would changed “Andy played like shit” to “Andy played really well”.

As for Palmer and his extension, keep in mind that he insured everything was structured in a way that his contract would not cause a cap situation that prevented re-signing players, only to watch guys like Justin Smith and Housh walk out the door...

(08-09-2018, 10:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d say that’s Jets game a couple years ago where he got sacked five times and still put on a show and won the game is evidence he has it in him as well. I just want to see it come out more often.

Yeah....for sure, that was before he got rattled from all the hits.  I agree, he put on a helluva show that day, but he was physically battered against the Bills last year.  Had to be helped off the field once, IIRC.  I also agree I'd like to see more of it.

(08-09-2018, 09:16 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Carson signed that contract a week before his knee got ripped to shreds by Pittsburgh. At the time he signed that contract, it looked like the team was going nowhere but up. The Bengals were a rising young team and just about everyone agreed the team had turned a corner. In his first 3 years as a Bengal, everything looked great. He would have been foolish not to sign an extension. 

Fast forward 5 years, and it's clear Mike Brown is still calling the shots (i.e. Ruining the team) and that maybe Marv isn't the best option as a head coach. Who knows what changes Carson wanted, but clearly a few of Marvins demands were met (I think they were all met this time around in January... Hopefully). 

The 2011 Bengals saw immediate success because they got rid of two of the biggest problems on the field, Chad and TO. Also, letting bratkowski go was long over due. We can't forget that the team went 10-6 and swept the AFC North only two years prior. If anything, I think having Carson throwing to AJ and the rest of the young guys would have been better than the rookie Dalton. Who knows how the next 4 years would have played out though...

Exactly yet he was not man enough to do so and wanted instant success or nothing. 

He went out trying to cripple the Bengals and all he did was miss out on a golden opportunity for NFL greatness for himself and turn half of his fanbase against him. A fool and his reputation are soon parted.

Addition by subtraction may have been the case with departures from 2010.  Yet Carson has to be named along with Chad, TO, as well. Because it is fact and anything else is speculation.

It was childlike, he was paid in excess of a hundred million and still was pouty and had all the resources he needed right here. 

Just missed his mama and that left coast I guess. 

It should be a good watch, though I doubt we get any answers before and we probably won't now. Somebody said they would have rather seen Palmer throwing than Dalton, not me. You can argue it anyway you want, the dude quit on the team which in and of itself was bad enough; but the icing was no explanation. Palmer was a good watch up until the Steelers took him out, I'm not sure he ever completely recovered. The other thing that always got me about Palmer was his uncanny ability to throw the ball to Ed Reed,grrr. Still, he's a rather interesting pick for the show, I'm used to seeing winners on there, with few exceptions who had personal demons that hurt or ended their careers and often their lives. Palmer has to be one of the least intriguing to ever be featured, with his drab, reserved personality and unwillingness to talk about his problems. Maybe he will break out of that shell on this show, if so it should be a real interesting watch.

(08-09-2018, 09:16 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Carson signed that contract a week before his knee got ripped to shreds by Pittsburgh. At the time he signed that contract, it looked like the team was going nowhere but up. The Bengals were a rising young team and just about everyone agreed the team had turned a corner. In his first 3 years as a Bengal, everything looked great. He would have been foolish not to sign an extension. 

Fast forward 5 years, and it's clear Mike Brown is still calling the shots (i.e. Ruining the team) and that maybe Marv isn't the best option as a head coach. Who knows what changes Carson wanted, but clearly a few of Marvins demands were met (I think they were all met this time around in January... Hopefully). 

The 2011 Bengals saw immediate success because they got rid of two of the biggest problems on the field, Chad and TO. Also, letting bratkowski go was long over due. We can't forget that the team went 10-6 and swept the AFC North only two years prior. If anything, I think having Carson throwing to AJ and the rest of the young guys would have been better than the rookie Dalton. Who knows how the next 4 years would have played out though...

Suspect the same and pray that it is true. 

 

(08-09-2018, 11:01 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: Should Gresham receive any blame for that?  If I recall correctly, 2 of those picks were in and out of his hands first, with many more drops that would changed “Andy played like shit” to “Andy played really well”.

As for Palmer and his extension, keep in mind that he insured everything was structured in a way that his contract would not cause a cap situation that prevented re-signing players, only to watch guys like Justin Smith and Housh walk out the door...

Then we see Andy taking a team friendly deal and then watching as MB gets cheap on the o-line and lets 2 seasons go down the drain while Andy gets ground into the turf as a way of showing thanks.  Rock on.

Some of the ways fans take Carson leaving personally is a little odd, but that's the nature of fandom. Personally, if someone like Larry Fitzgerald saw fit to make Carson the captain of the Cardinals who are we to claim that the guy is a quitter who never had his heart in playing football? Meh, come up with your own conclusions.

(08-09-2018, 11:44 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Then we see Andy taking a team friendly deal and then watching as MB gets cheap on the o-line and lets 2 seasons go down the drain while Andy gets ground into the turf as a way of showing thanks.  Rock on.

Some of the ways fans take Carson leaving personally is a little odd, but that's the nature of fandom.  Personally, if someone like Larry Fitzgerald saw fit to make Carson the captain of the Cardinals who are we to claim that the guy is a quitter who never had his heart in playing football?  Meh, come up with your own conclusions.

Was very vocal against this as well. Do not play favorites with my opinions, just spew them. 

But to the boneheaded owners defense, they did invest two early draft picks to replace them the previous year. 

Still it was as big of a debacle as Carson walking out on his boys. Leaders never do this without backlash. Should be expected and MB receives plenty of it too. 

When the monetary compensation funneled into their wallets is that humongous.  Then it becomes just par for the course to be critiqued by the peasants. 

I'm quoting a ton of people here lol, here goes:

(08-08-2018, 10:56 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I'll always have a soft spot for Palmer, and I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't fault him for leaving.

I honestly don't understand why anyone blames him. He's far from the first player to want out of the Brown family circus , and I'd wager just about anything he won't be the last

I've realized over the years that a good number of Bengal "fans" I've personally met have disdain for Carson. Also, a lot of these people are also what I call "fake fans" (i.e. They have no idea who Carl Pickens is). It's almost like you can tell the type of Bengal fan a person is by how they feel about Carson Palmer. The people who jumped aboard the Carson/Chad/TJ bandwagon back in 2004/2005 now hate Carson because he "betrayed them". The people who have been lifelong fans understand why Carson wanted out and don't blame him for it. If they do hate him, it's for other reasons (blows my mind how many people can't let the Ohio state thing go )

I'm looking forward to this special. I'm hoping his time as a Bengal isn't glossed over and he expands on the final conversation/confrontation with Mike Brown.

Not true at all, especially being Canadian born and raised; you MUST have been invested and know enough at a young age and I always knew who Pickens was, especially since I always traded him away first in Madden, so that I could cut his huge salary lol. As for the "blame," thing...

(08-08-2018, 11:47 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Well maybe not, but my point is that most Bengal fans (that I've met anyway) who seem to know little about the history of the team also hate Carson because he demanded a trade.

While 99% of the time I would agree and ridicule any player as a "quitter", with the Brown Family Bengals, it's just different. We all know why  The Bengals are the exception, not the rule. There have been plenty of players that wanted out of the dysfunction before Carson, and plenty have had negative things to say about the organization after they leave. What does that tell you?

As much as I love this team, I'll never fault any player for demanding a trade away from this organization. 

  

In terms of that, Dillon has, not so much retracted his comments, but apologised and basically called himself out as a little whiny prick, while he should've manned up and dealt with his departure differently.

Pickens has never said anything.

Joseph is a little, whiny POS.

Those are all the vocal guys I can think of; Willie has been vocal too, yet he still hangs around the team, the city, etc. so who knows what he thinks.

(08-09-2018, 09:10 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I sure as hell didn’t appreciate seeing him laughing.

I swear Dalton is completely above criticism to some of you.

How is that above criticism?

Like when I used to coach baseball, all the parents wanted me to get angry at the umpires and get in their face and they'd be pissed when I didn't.

Why would anyone mope and be angry? Go with the flow and just realised that the team (including yourself) just didn't have it that day, go back to the drawing board and make sure it never happens again; THAT is the measure of a true leader/winner/etc.

I'm not saying laughing it off is the right thing to do either, but a situation like this is absolutely NOT black and white, nor does it have to be.

(08-09-2018, 09:16 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Carson signed that contract a week before his knee got ripped to shreds by Pittsburgh. At the time he signed that contract, it looked like the team was going nowhere but up. The Bengals were a rising young team and just about everyone agreed the team had turned a corner. In his first 3 years as a Bengal, everything looked great. He would have been foolish not to sign an extension. 

Fast forward 5 years, and it's clear Mike Brown is still calling the shots (i.e. Ruining the team) and that maybe Marv isn't the best option as a head coach. Who knows what changes Carson wanted, but clearly a few of Marvins demands were met (I think they were all met this time around in January... Hopefully). 

The 2011 Bengals saw immediate success because they got rid of two of the biggest problems on the field, Chad and TO. Also, letting bratkowski go was long over due. We can't forget that the team went 10-6 and swept the AFC North only two years prior. If anything, I think having Carson throwing to AJ and the rest of the young guys would have been better than the rookie Dalton. Who knows how the next 4 years would have played out though...

... that's just your opinion and there's plenty of evidence to disprove it.

For example, I feel Carsone and Bratkowski were the two main problems in 2010 on offense, by far; Bratkowski couldn't manage the line properly (aside from RT, everyone was essentially as good as they were the previous year, so it wasn't on PA) and Carsone just had an awful year throwing the ball.

Owens didn't help matters, but he had a really good year. Chad never had a problem that year.

Bottom line, for me, he just was another whiny POS like Joseph; I don't have any ill will towards him, but his actions were entitled and he still acted like hot ****, even though he had a middling to poor year; I don't agree with that attitude and when it hurts the team (which it did), that's not right.

ESPECIALLY when guys who are busting their asses, have no say in the matter and try their best to even make the team.

But anyways, I'll watch it, but I don't care about him anymore and I sure as hell aren't wearing his jersey anymore.

But I won't burn it like many have

(08-09-2018, 10:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d say that’s Jets game a couple years ago where he got sacked five times and still put on a show and won the game is evidence he has it in him as well. I just want to see it come out more often.

7* times

(08-09-2018, 11:44 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Then we see Andy taking a team friendly deal and then watching as MB gets cheap on the o-line and lets 2 seasons go down the drain while Andy gets ground into the turf as a way of showing thanks.  Rock on.

Some of the ways fans take Carson leaving personally is a little odd, but that's the nature of fandom.  Personally, if someone like Larry Fitzgerald saw fit to make Carson the captain of the Cardinals who are we to claim that the guy is a quitter who never had his heart in playing football?  Meh, come up with your own conclusions.

Kinda reminds me of what happened when Palmer was here his last few seasons.....  

(08-09-2018, 12:08 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Was very vocal against this as well. Do not play favorites with my opinions, just spew them. 

But to the boneheaded owners defense, they did invest two early draft picks to replace them the previous year. 

Still it was as big of a debacle as Carson walking out on his boys. Leaders never do this without backlash. Should be expected and MB receives plenty of it too. 

When the monetary compensation funneled into their wallets is that humongous.  Then it becomes just par for the course to be critiqued by the peasants. 

We've seen NFL players become damaged goods and/or persona non grata due to their actions and Carson quitting on the Bengals led to him getting multiple offers, playing for another 7 years, and being welcome and made captain by other NFL teams and players.  I'm not saying he's a golden QB or anything, but I don't see the fallout of what he did.  We love to point out how everyone hates the Bengals...well, maybe that's part of the reason Carson Palmer demanding a trade from them wasn't career suicide.  There is a reason Tom Brady giving one of his coaches a dirty look is national news but players giving up on Marvin Lewis and the Bengals is "business as usual."

Also, if he would have played out his contract and then refused to stay here and leave as a FA I assume we'd have the same "You suck, we don't need you, you're giving up on the Bengals" attitude all the same.  It is the nature of NFL fans to loathe players that leave.  It's fandom at its best.