(08-20-2018, 12:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Your theory is extremely flawed and has be proven over and over again MB and the Bengals spend more than their fair share when calculated against other teams. They have rolled money over in to the cap the following year the past 8+ years I believe. That blows your theory out of the water. If MB wanted to pocket the money, then he does not roll over any cap money, but again he has rolled it over for future contracts to keep the best players here for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

My theory is more flawed because I didnt realize they saved $5.6 million against the cap cutting him after June 1st, which I didnt know when I wrote that.

(08-20-2018, 12:07 PM)Millhouse Wrote: My theory is this. By cutting him now instead of back in March or whenever, the Bengals ie Ownership can pocket the money instead of using it on a quality free agent that would have been available back then. Its purely a financial move with public relations playing a role to delay the cut. Cut him back then, fans would expect to see that money spent elsewhere. Cut him now, that's money in the pocket and fans will say 'I understand & applaud the team for doing something different.'

I mean they werent happy with his play last year, pursued free agents, drafted Bates, and only 2 preseason games in they feel good with the rookie instead of the 5 year experienced vet? Yeah, they knew they were going to cut him long ago, but waited until the fanbase had their pitchforks put away.

Anyways, thats my theory at least, and I hope it gets ripped apart by them making a move in which case that money gets used asap, not next season.

Agree MB has a history of frugalness that is unrivaled. 

But believe this year is different and think it is best to see what you have in rookie first before letting him go. 

Also believe a player or two will still be brought into the Bengals fold before season begins. 

Cuts will be happening almost daily from this point forward.

(08-20-2018, 02:05 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree MB has a history of frugalness that is unrivaled. 

But believe this year is different and think it is best to see what you have in rookie first before letting him go. 

Also believe a player or two will still be brought into the Bengals fold before season begins. 

Cuts will be happening almost daily from this point forward.

I'll admit, my anti-MB fandom gets in the way of rational thought sometimes. I've never liked him as owner nor will I. So I need to work at trying to separate that when looking at things like this.

(08-20-2018, 12:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: That doesn't work because the minimum spend still requires the moving average over three years to reach a certain average. Rolled over money does not count as spending in this accounting so this theory here is false. It is also known that they have spend up to the ceiling a couple times. The narrative that they are pocketing money is a broken and played out narrative over the last couple years.

The minimum spend is always met, but never the maximum - never. That is money in the pocket. But I have said many times on another forum that I have little issue with the way they manage the cap. My issue is with the coaching and how the roster is managed. But there is no doubt staying below the cap every year and utilizing the rollover provisions pockets money for the owner, even the deferral of monies onto the next year pockets interest income. 

I will admit that when we drafted Jessie Bates I thought "Why would we spend a 2nd round pick on a back up with two entrenched starters ahead of him? Are we REALLY going to do 3 safety looks THAT much that this is an appropriate use of a draft pick (especially since Bates was considered good value at our slot, not amazing value)."

The pick makes a hell of a lot more sense now. So I don't think this is a gut reaction or anything like this. It seems apparent that this has been planned for a while (you could also see that in how they pursued free agent safeties.).

After the first second of utter shock you can see why this happened. Iloka was payed to really take that big leap after Reggie left, but he actually took a step back  Shawn Williams has been the best safety on the team over the last couple years. This move also gets me excited about Bates who must have really impressed enough to make it possible.

....now we better hear about a Carlos or Geno signing very soon

I'm still pissed about this. Bates is no upgrade. Not this year anyway. Wrong Safety was cut, but this front office was never mistaken for one that knows what they are doing. We are suddenly very weak at the position with a bunch of unknowns and a player who never earned his stripes before he mistakenly got extended, and can't stay healthy.

Iloka was way overpaid and the salary was not comparable to his production on the field. 5.6 million was way too much to spend, we have freed up roughly 7 million with Iloka and LaFell, I expect a n extension involving Dunlop/Atkins before the regular season. If I'm MJ, OGbugie, or Chris Baker I'm looking over my shoulder as we speak!!

(08-19-2018, 02:55 PM)PikesPeakUC Wrote:

A stunner: The #Bengals are releasing starting safety George Iloka, per @MikeGarafolo and me. He’s started every game he’s played in since 2013. Purely a financial decision, but a 28-year-old safety hitting the market at this point is good news for interested teams.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 19, 2018

So I guess my question is - why is it purely a financial decision?  If that were the case, MJ wouldn't have a job.  There HAS to be more here.  Were the young guys out per forming George?  Was George not doing what was asked of him by the new DC?  

The fact that we aren't even trying to trade him, says a lot to me.

There has to be more to this than:
It's financial or
It's a bad move.


Come on people, let's actually discuss this vs. using blanket statements.

(08-20-2018, 04:58 PM)Stewy Wrote: So I guess my question is - why is it purely a financial decision?  If that were the case, MJ wouldn't have a job.  There HAS to be more here.  Were the young guys out per forming George?  Was George not doing what was asked of him by the new DC?  

The fact that we aren't even trying to trade him, says a lot to me.

There has to be more to this than:
It's financial or
It's a bad move.


Come on people, let's actually discuss this vs. using blanket statements.

It's never purely a financial decision, but there was definitely some financial motivation.  Iloka was due to make $5.3 mil this year, and he's simply not worth that.  That's why they couldn't trade him -- no one was giving them an asset to pay him $5-6 mil each of the next two years (or whatever he had left on his contract).  What I don't understand is why they didn't try to renegotiate the contract.  Would he take $1-2 mil over the next two or three years?  That wouldn't be a bad deal ...  

I don't think they would've cut Iloka if they hadn't drafted Bates.  They apparently figured they could get equal burn out of Bates, based on his performance thus far, at a much cheaper price.  I don't necessarily have a problem with it if they use the saved money to re-sign Geno and Dunlap, or to sign Eric Reid.  But we won't know if it's a bad move until we see what Iloka and Bates do going forward.  If Iloka signs with Seattle or NE and makes the pro bowl, I'll be pissed ...

 Agree that MJ isn't worth his contract, Williams either.  Do we not have a replacement for them?  As many DEs as we've drafted over the past few years, I hope we'd be able to replace MJ at least ...

(08-20-2018, 04:58 PM)Stewy Wrote: So I guess my question is - why is it purely a financial decision?  If that were the case, MJ wouldn't have a job.  There HAS to be more here.  Were the young guys out per forming George?  Was George not doing what was asked of him by the new DC?  

The fact that we aren't even trying to trade him, says a lot to me.

There has to be more to this than:
It's financial or
It's a bad move.


Come on people, let's actually discuss this vs. using blanket statements.

Discussing what we don't know is just speculation best covered with a blanket.


Look since Reggie left we have been basically running 2 SS's out there.  we found a FS in Bates.  Williams has more years before needs a new contract.    IIloka hasn't been as productive since reggie left.

Or he didn't fit The new scheme very well.


The only surprise was we didn't try to trade him. but the Saftey market is very limited as there are a couple decent safties still waiting for contracts on the market. They didn't cut him earlier cause they had to make sure bates was who they thought.

Browns would have found a way to trade him.

(08-19-2018, 02:55 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/19/bengals-release-safety-george-iloka/

Sorry folks but my guess is MJ is on the block as well. 
Can he be used as trade bait? I don't know.

Youth on this team is killer. 
I do however feel that The "Core" they have is capable of being VERY GOOD. 

Put Fisher at RT. Move Hart to backup (Pay his contract until expedient to cut him, both he and the 30 lbs overweight LT). 
Hart looked slow. He will NEED a chip block virtually every play. (which I think is a rather wise thing to give Andy time).
The big left tackle looked lethargic. Totally out of place at times.
If this line ever gets in sync they will be DANGEROUS. 
Cut Ced, Barkley now so they can find a job if possible, not to be rude don't waste time nor resources. 
Don't let Mr Barkley raise your eyebrow. 2 TD to 8 INT ratio doesn't work for me. No offense intended, He is cutting into Driskels time.

(08-20-2018, 06:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Discussing what we don't know is just speculation best covered with a blanket.


Look since Reggie left we have been basically running 2 SS's out there.  we found a FS in Bates.  Williams has more years before needs a new contract.    IIloka hasn't been as productive since reggie left.

Or he didn't fit The new scheme very well.


The only surprise was we didn't try to trade him. but the Saftey market is very limited as there are a couple decent safties still waiting for contracts on the market.    They didn't cut him earlier cause they had to make sure bates was who they thought.

That's not true though Reggie was more of SS than FS. He played more like Troy Polumalu then ED reed. He blitzed, he played in the Box, and he could play deep. He was kinda of a jack of all trades type of player but he really wasn't a traditional free safety. 

Iloka was more of a field General out there Called the plays, lined everyone up, and prevented the deep ball. Yeah he didn't have the play making ability of Reggie or Bates but he did his job quite well.

We should be talking about moving Williams to LB in Nickle not cutting Iloka.

(08-20-2018, 05:55 PM)shanebo Wrote: It's never purely a financial decision, but there was definitely some financial motivation.  Iloka was due to make $5.3 mil this year, and he's simply not worth that.  That's why they couldn't trade him -- no one was giving them an asset to pay him $5-6 mil each of the next two years (or whatever he had left on his contract).  What I don't understand is why they didn't try to renegotiate the contract.  Would he take $1-2 mil over the next two or three years?  That wouldn't be a bad deal ...  

I don't think they would've cut Iloka if they hadn't drafted Bates.  They apparently figured they could get equal burn out of Bates, based on his performance thus far, at a much cheaper price.  I don't necessarily have a problem with it if they use the saved money to re-sign Geno and Dunlap, or to sign Eric Reid.  But we won't know if it's a bad move until we see what Iloka and Bates do going forward.  If Iloka signs with Seattle or NE and makes the pro bowl, I'll be pissed ...

 Agree that MJ isn't worth his contract, Williams either.  Do we not have a replacement for them?  As many DEs as we've drafted over the past few years, I hope we'd be able to replace MJ at least ...

I did notice George coming on late on one play that I thought he should have hammered hard.
Maybe that was it. They didn't want hem back there holding up like he is "Gun Shy".

(08-20-2018, 01:13 AM)JWW1971 Wrote: I was also wondering how much of a say Coach Austin had in this.
Maybe he has recognized Iloka wasn't going to fit in with his plans and wants to concentrate on the guys he thinks has a chance

I'd say this is very likely.  And ditto on Lazor.

(08-20-2018, 04:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm still pissed about this. Bates is no upgrade. Not this year anyway. Wrong Safety was cut, but this front office was never mistaken for one that knows what they are doing. We are suddenly very weak at the position with a bunch of unknowns and a player who never earned his stripes before he mistakenly got extended, and can't stay healthy.

Nah, we have upgraded the position.

(08-20-2018, 04:40 PM)Synric Wrote: After the first second of utter shock you can see why this happened. Iloka was payed to really take that big leap after Reggie left, but he actually took a step back  Shawn Williams has been the best safety on the team over the last couple years. This move also gets me excited about Bates who must have really impressed enough to make it possible.

....now we better hear about a Carlos or Geno signing very soon

Right before the first game.  Both of them.  

(08-20-2018, 07:14 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: That's not true though Reggie was more of SS than FS. He played more like Troy Polumalu then ED reed. He blitzed, he played in the Box, and he could play deep. He was kinda of a jack of all trades type of player but he really wasn't a traditional free safety. 

Iloka was more of a field General out there Called the plays, lined everyone up, and prevented the deep ball. Yeah he didn't have the play making ability of Reggie or Bates but he did his job quite well.

We should be talking about moving Williams to LB in Nickle not cutting Iloka.

You have a lot of things backwards Jake. First off, Reggie even said he played better here cause it was in more of a
Free Safety role. Why do you think he was the jack of all trades and George was not? He was the FS and George was
the younger big Safety you could not throw over the top of. George sure wasn't the field General calling the plays out
there. Get out of here with that man, George was young and the team thought he could take the next step and be
the field General, he could not plain and simple and fell off a cliff trying to do so.

Bates is much more instinctual, Fej can do what Iloka did if we need it and is our ST's captain. Brandon Wilson has
just been making plays at Safety all Offseason and Training Camp. We are good at Safety especially since we have
Shaw who is our swiss army knife back there and Shawn who i am sure will still play Nickel LB at times.