(08-28-2018, 10:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: , he seems very one dimensional from what I have read and seen especially any shift to RG has not seemed to go well for him, stuck behind Boling now at LG.. has not performed much at all against 1st teamers... if we sign a Guard, i could see him cut or Redmond cut...

This is just strange to me. Everytime he plays Westerman has impressed me.

I don't know what you are watching Essex, he has allowed zero pressures, that is good and not someone you cut.

When a player plays better than the other guys against backups he should get a chance to move up into a starting position.

(08-29-2018, 10:52 AM)pally Wrote: Seems there may be more to the story than we know.  Does he not put in the effort on the practice field or in the meeting room?  Is he not prepared by knowing the playbook?  Does he have an attitude problem?


[b]Katherine Terrell‏Verified account [/b]@Kat_Terrell
FollowingFollowing @Kat_Terrell
More


I think Lewis had a telling quote about Christian Westerman when he was asked why he didn’t play at RG. He said it doesn’t matter if it’s LG or RG, you have to show up and earn your spot. After the press conference ends I’ll go back and post the full quote
12:25 PM - 28 Aug 2018

Head coach Marvin Lewis was asked why Westerman wasn’t playing right guard during Tuesday’s press conference. “They are synonymous,” he said, we assume with a menacing glare. “It doesn’t really matter, left or right, you have to prove you can play.”

Again, strange, but thanks for the quotes Pally.

Marvin has been outright wrong on many young players and ones that get in his doghouse seem to have trouble working out of it.

(08-29-2018, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is just strange to me. Everytime he plays Westerman has impressed me.

I don't know what you are watching Essex, he has allowed zero pressures, that is good and not someone you cut.

When a player plays better than the other guys against backups he should get a chance to move up into a starting position.


Again, strange, but thanks for the quotes Pally.

Has Westerman been given a chance (like the others) to start alongside the 1's this preseason?  I don't think so but not 100% sure. 

(08-29-2018, 10:52 AM)pally Wrote: Seems there may be more to the story than we know.  Does he not put in the effort on the practice field or in the meeting room?  Is he not prepared by knowing the playbook?  Does he have an attitude problem?


[b]Katherine Terrell‏Verified account [/b]@Kat_Terrell
FollowingFollowing @Kat_Terrell
More


I think Lewis had a telling quote about Christian Westerman when he was asked why he didn’t play at RG. He said it doesn’t matter if it’s LG or RG, you have to show up and earn your spot. After the press conference ends I’ll go back and post the full quote
12:25 PM - 28 Aug 2018

Head coach Marvin Lewis was asked why Westerman wasn’t playing right guard during Tuesday’s press conference. “They are synonymous,” he said, we assume with a menacing glare. “It doesn’t really matter, left or right, you have to prove you can play.”

It doesn't get any more Marvinesque than that.  That's straight from his heart, right there. 

(08-29-2018, 02:02 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Has Westerman been given a chance (like the others) to start alongside the 1's this preseason?  I don't think so but not 100% sure. 

Nope, sounds like he is in Marv's doghous as I_C_Deadpeople says.

(08-28-2018, 11:21 AM)bengals67 Wrote: He should get a chance at right guard.

He apparently won't.  The coaches don't seem to like him - including the head coach

(08-28-2018, 11:30 AM)Sweetness Wrote: Can we realistically think we're going to get a quality starting OG that was somehow cut from another teams roster meaning they most like weren't even the 4th best guard on that team? I mean we may get lucky but if we're hoping the answer for our season comes through cuts we're in trouble.

(08-28-2018, 04:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm not sure why people think teams cut quality starting lineman. There is a shortage across the league. Anyone we sign that gets cut will upon further review be bad, at least at the team he got cut from.

Why did we cut Iloka and LaFell? Do you guys not think they'd be an upgrade for some team out there?

I'm not sure why people think being cut automatically = you're a scrub. Teams dump salary and decide to roll with a younger/cheaper options rather often.

The players that get cut often sign elsewhere for a reasonable rate to get their stock back up. It's possible we could find a guy like that, and they wouldn't necessarily have to be an all-pro to upgrade our right side.

I'm thinking maybe Westerman moaned about the right side one time too many......

Marvin's doghouse = Fan favorite who does not play well but fans refuse to acknowledge it.Remember last year when everyone was squealing about how it was all Marvin's fault that Ross was not playing?

Westerman is a guy who played a grand total of 87 snaps last year (about half the snaps of the last two games) and was annointed as savior of the O-line by some.  The truth is that he probably isn't that good.

How many other Bengal back ups have left "Marvin's doghouse" in free agency and played well for another team?

(08-29-2018, 05:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin's doghouse = Fan favorite who does not play well but fans refuse to acknowledge it.

Remember last year when everyone was squealing about how it was all Marvin's fault that Ross was not playing?

How many Bengal back ups have left "Marvin's doghouse" in free agency and played well for another team?

I can't think of any off the top of my head. I can think of Peko who was not a fan favorite going to Denver and playing very well.

(08-29-2018, 05:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin's doghouse = Fan favorite who does not play well but fans refuse to acknowledge it.Remember last year when everyone was squealing about how it was all Marvin's fault that Ross was not playing?

Westerman is a guy who played a grand total of 87 snaps last year (about half the snaps of the last two games) and was annointed as savior of the O-line by some.  The truth is that he probably isn't that good.

How many other Bengal back ups have left "Marvin's doghouse" in free agency and played well for another team?

Does Evan Mathis count?

It's kind of late in the game but Chance Warmack can still be starter quality at left guard.  It seems like the rumors are pointing toward his lack of versatility that may make a backup LG making 2.5M obsolete.  Send them a 7th, plug him in at LG in a few weeks and move Boling to RG.

(08-29-2018, 06:49 PM)phil413 Wrote: It's kind of late in the game but Chance Warmack can still be starter quality at left guard.  It seems like the rumors are pointing toward his lack of versatility that may make a backup LG making 2.5M obsolete.  Send them a 7th, plug him in at LG in a few weeks and move Boling to RG.

Wouldn't that effectively make Warmack, Westerman?  Why would they pay 2.5M for the same thing that we have at 20% of that price??

(08-29-2018, 05:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin's doghouse = Fan favorite who does not play well but fans refuse to acknowledge it.Remember last year when everyone was squealing about how it was all Marvin's fault that Ross was not playing?

Westerman is a guy who played a grand total of 87 snaps last year (about half the snaps of the last two games) and was annointed as savior of the O-line by some.  The truth is that he probably isn't that good.

How many other Bengal back ups have left "Marvin's doghouse" in free agency and played well for another team?

Good point Fred. Something to consider is Marvin is pretty highly praised around the league. Might contribute to what your saying. Bottom line tho, Marvin could be a stubborn old fool. I don't think so. He may not have given us a playoff victory, but he has a good reputation of estimating talent. 

(08-29-2018, 08:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wouldn't that effectively make Warmack, Westerman?  Why would they pay 2.5M for the same thing that we have at 20% of that price??

If Westerman was worth starting, Marvin would make this move and I'd be happy.  From that quote the other day he hasn't earned anything, and nobody has wowed at RG.  Chemistry is important, but I'll take an average starter (no matter if he was projected to be a star) over what we have now.  

(08-29-2018, 08:40 PM)phil413 Wrote: If Westerman was worth starting, Marvin would make this move and I'd be happy.  From that quote the other day he hasn't earned anything, and nobody has wowed at RG.  Chemistry is important, but I'll take an average starter (no matter if he was projected to be a star) over what we have now.  

I agree, but overpaying for Warmack, a LG only guy, would be a complete waste of money.  Saying that he's LG only, is like saying the dude can pass block, but don't expect any push in the run game.  We seem to have enough of those around here..

(08-29-2018, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This is just strange to me. Everytime he plays Westerman has impressed me.

I don't know what you are watching Essex, he has allowed zero pressures, that is good and not someone you cut.

When a player plays better than the other guys against backups he should get a chance to move up into a starting position.


Again, strange, but thanks for the quotes Pally.

Overall the line played very well against the pass rush not just Westerman.. and he played very little against 1st teams to really give me a fair evaluation against Hopkins ...  and again how much did he even play at RG.. that tells you something from the stand point of the coaching staff that he was not on that side hardly at all or none.... You totally are not seeing my point.. if he is not in the minds of the coaches which at this point seems pretty clear that he will not be the RG, and we go out and pick up a RG after roster cuts..., then someone has to go.. it wont be Hopkins.. he can play center and has more experience at RG.. it will either be Redmond or Westerman... now I would cut Redmond first over Westerman... but you seem to think Westerman is an All Pro untouchable from being cut.. 

(08-29-2018, 02:02 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Has Westerman been given a chance (like the others) to start alongside the 1's this preseason?  I don't think so but not 100% sure. 

Well obviously his lack of playing time especially on the RG is a Red Flag for all the board.. since we are not coaches, we don;t see what they see etc... 

I find it funny that we continue to beat the dead horse that coaches just sit people because they don;t like them etc.. this is not Youth to High School football.. Coaches probably over 90 percent of the time are playing the players they feel can give the best chance to win... Sure they make mistakes.. they are human.. sure contracts can play some role and yes maybe a rare time they hold a grudge on a player and reduce their time.. but i just dont see it in this case, Pollack came in as a  new coach, you can tell he has been given much freedom with the line and he has not even called Westermans name i believe to really play any meaningful snaps at RG... if that does not tell you something I don;t know what else i can say or type..... 

(08-29-2018, 08:16 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good point Fred. Something to consider is Marvin is pretty highly praised around the league. Might contribute to what your saying. Bottom line tho, Marvin could be a stubborn old fool. I don't think so. He may not have given us a playoff victory, but he has a good reputation of estimating talent. 

If you notice, all coaches are highly praised around the league. It is an old boys netywork so they never put one another down. If anything, ML gets credit from others for dealing with Mikey for 16 years.

(08-29-2018, 04:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why did we cut Iloka and LaFell? Do you guys not think they'd be an upgrade for some team out there?

I'm not sure why people think being cut automatically = you're a scrub. Teams dump salary and decide to roll with a younger/cheaper options rather often.

The players that get cut often sign elsewhere for a reasonable rate to get their stock back up. It's possible we could find a guy like that, and they wouldn't necessarily have to be an all-pro to upgrade our right side.

Illoka got signed for vet minimum and LaFell still has no job. Not sure what point these guys prove? There pay, or in LaFell's case lack of pay, show what the rest of the league views them as. Also, that is again disregarding the lack of talent at O line across the league. There are quality safeties and WR's still on the market, there aren't quality O lineman still sitting at home waiting for deals.