(09-09-2015, 02:09 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: So in other words...

"No can not point to one game to answer your question"

Wow didn't know you'd complain about not picking one specific game Thought the point of how Eli, Flacco, and Cam not being as spectacular you thought they were was enough. How about Indy vs. Bengals in 2013? Dalton definitely was a major lift for the team in that game.

Lol...you mean the game that the defense shut out the colts in the first 1/2? The colts punted on the first 6 possessions. Actually they missed one field goal in there but you get the point. Totally dominated by the Defense.
In the 2nd 1/2 Luck had 4 TD's and no Ints  with 320 to make the game seem respectable.  Dalton ended the game with 90 less yards and 3 TD's no Ints he did rush for 1 also. No doubt it was a good game for Dalton. However the Bengals never trailed and the game was never a contest because the Defense sealed the game in the first 1/2.

Thank you for making the point. Dalton shows up when the game is in hand. He is along for the ride. He was still out performed by Luck. In compassion Luck's team did not show up and Luck accounted for ALL of his teams 28 points and no turnovers.  BTW the Bengals hung 42 on the Colts that day. The rest of the O showed up...so not really the example that shows Dalton being the "reason" the team won.

(09-09-2015, 02:57 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Lol...you mean the game that the defense shut out the colts in the first 1/2? The colts punted on the first 6 possessions. Actually they missed one field goal in there but you get the point. Totally dominated by the Defense.
In the 2nd 1/2 Luck had 4 TD's and no Ints  with 320 to make the game seem respectable.  Dalton ended the game with 90 less yards and 3 TD's no Ints he did rush for 1 also.  No doubt it was a good game for Dalton. However the Bengals never trailed and the game was never a contest because the Defense sealed the game in the first 1/2.

Thank you for making the point. Dalton shows up when the game is in hand. He is along for the ride. He was still out performed by Luck. In compassion Luck's team did not show up and Luck accounted for ALL of his teams 28 points and no turnovers.  BTW the Bengals hung 42 on the Colts that day. The rest of the O showed up...so not really the example that shows Dalton being the "reason" the team won.

What about the Baltimore games last season?

(09-08-2015, 11:35 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Lafell isnt better than sanu....put sanu woth TB and look what will happen. Same with Hawkins. You put Lafell with the Brownsand the same happens. You're talking about a player going and playing with the best qb and coach of all times...and you keep comparing olsen to wrs...its irrelevant. Olsen isnt a top 5 te in the league. Hes good but he's not some god send like you are suggesting. Dalton has clearly had more talented skill players during his tenure that Cam has...simple as that. Has any of Cams #2 wrs put up 10 tds? Dalton has always had a plethora of talent and cam has always lacked weapons. Its not just me sayin it....not that i follow the national media and everythingthey say but theyve said it every year as well as its very simple to see. Cam has always lacked weapons.

Haha! Just keep thinking Lafell isn't better than Sanu or Hawkins. Every year other than Lafells rookie year is better than almost any year of those two. How is comparing Olsen to a WR irrelevent? He's he's averaged almost 900 yards a season the last 3 years. I would rather have Olsen than any receiver on the Bengals other than Green. I would say he is a top 5 TE too. I guess that's just how much you know about other teams players... not a lot if any. And about "has Cam ever had any #2 WR put up 10 TD"... well Cam doesn't throw enough TDs to do that. It's not the WRs fault that Cam only averages 20 TDs a year.

Next time you respond try and use facts to backup your opinions, because every time you post it's only opinions backed up by nothing.

(09-09-2015, 02:57 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Lol...you mean the game that the defense shut out the colts in the first 1/2? The colts punted on the first 6 possessions. Actually they missed one field goal in there but you get the point. Totally dominated by the Defense.
In the 2nd 1/2 Luck had 4 TD's and no Ints  with 320 to make the game seem respectable.  Dalton ended the game with 90 less yards and 3 TD's no Ints he did rush for 1 also.  No doubt it was a good game for Dalton. However the Bengals never trailed and the game was never a contest because the Defense sealed the game in the first 1/2.

Thank you for making the point. Dalton shows up when the game is in hand. He is along for the ride. He was still out performed by Luck. In compassion Luck's team did not show up and Luck accounted for ALL of his teams 28 points and no turnovers.  BTW the Bengals hung 42 on the Colts that day. The rest of the O showed up...so not really the example that shows Dalton being the "reason" the team won.

Give me a break. Dalton played great in the Colts game in 2013. The defense had a good first half, but don't forget about their meltdown in the 2nd half allowing 28 points. Dalton had almost 300 yards and 3 TDs that game, and almost 70% completions, and a running TD. When the Colts started scoring all their points in the second half Dalton led the offense to score just as much as the Colts, so it wasn't just because the Bengals had a lead. Dalton made sure he didn't give up a point of that lead. Dalton scored the same amount of points as Luck that game. Keep trying to downplay Dalton. It's kinda funny.

(09-09-2015, 06:56 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Give me a break. Dalton played great in the Colts game in 2013. The defense had a good first half, but don't forget about their meltdown in the 2nd half allowing 28 points. Dalton had almost 300 yards and 3 TDs that game, and almost 70% completions, and a running TD. When the Colts started scoring all their points in the second half Dalton led the offensed to score just as much as the Colts, so it wasn't just because the Bengals had a lead. Dalton made sure he didn't give up a point of that lead. Dalton scored the same amount of points as Luck that game. Keep trying to downplay Dalton. It's kinda funny.

Keep trying to hype him up...it's more funny.

To the point of the question...I will rephrase it a bit for you. Did Dalton need to overcome the poor play of the team to get the win. Sorry bro the answer is no. That doesn't mean he did not play well, he absolutely did. He often does when the pressure is off.

(09-09-2015, 02:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: funny, people cap on Gresham's 6 fumbles over 2 seasons, but Hill fumbled 5 times in half a season. Maybe there was a reason why he couldn't get the starting spot earlier in the year.

Even with the fumbles, he was clearly a better option than Gio.  

(09-09-2015, 03:42 AM)J24 Wrote: What about the Baltimore games last season?

I am guessing you are referring to the opening game?
The answer to the question did Dalton overcome the poor play of the team to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat?
The answer is - no he did not.
He played well. 300 yards a TD no Ints.
However the defense held the Ravens to 16, had two turnovers, special teams had a 45 yd punt return and 5 field goals. A wide open AJ Green battled for a under thrown deflected pass and broke a few ankles along the way to score the winning TD.
This is not to say Dalton does not play well at times. It is to point out he has not shown the ability to pick up a poorly playing team with his play and will them to victory. I live in the camp that to make a Super Bowl run you need a QB that can do that. I realize that there is a camp that believes that is not necessary to win a Super Bowl. Out of 50 titles they can point to a handful of examples of QB's with limited physical skills who also were not able to take over a game that have won the big one. That takes a great supporting cast, great coach and lots of luck. I am a life long Bengals fan, have never seen that trifecta here and do not see it now.
Dalton has shown, without question, he does not handle the pressure of good teams in prime time or playoffs well. Why would anyone believe he is going to develop this ability now? I am with all the Dalton homes...I hope and wish he can!

(09-09-2015, 09:10 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Keep trying to hype him up...it's more funny.  

To the point of the question...I will rephrase it a bit for you. Did Dalton need to overcome the poor play of the team to get the win. Sorry bro the answer is no. That doesn't mean he did not play well, he absolutely did. He often does when the pressure is off.

You act like Dalton always plays like crap when his team plays like crap around him. That's simply not true. Just for example look at the Patriots game last year. Dalton played great, but the rest of the team not even close.

(09-09-2015, 09:41 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: I am guessing you are referring to the opening game?
The answer to the question did Dalton overcome the poor play of the team to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat?
The answer is - no he did not.
He play well. 300 yards a TD not Ints.
However the defense held the Ravens to 16, had two turnovers, special teams had a 45 yd punt return and 5 field goals. A wide open AJ Green battled for a under thrown deflected pass and broke a few ankles along the way to score the winning TD.
This is not to say Dalton does not play well at times. It is to point out he has not shown the ability to pick up a poorly playing team with his play and will them to victory. I live in the camp that to make a Super Bowl run you need a QB that can do that. I realize that there is a camp that believes that is not necessary to win a Super Bowl. Out of 50 titles they can point to a handful of examples of QB's with limited physical skills who also were not able to take over a game that have won the big one. That takes a great supporting cast, great coach and lots of luck. I am a life long Bengals fan, have never seen that trifecta here and do not see it now.
Dalton has shown, without question, he does not handle the pressure of good teams in prime time or playoffs well. Why would anyone believe he is going to develop this ability now? I am with all the Dalton homes...I hope and wish he can!

So you don't think that was a close game last year? You don't think we almost lost it in the fourth quarter, and Dalton had to make a really good throw to A.J. Green (which wasn't under-thrown stop with that nonsense). Yeah I guess that doesn't fit your narrative though. Keep making me laugh.

(09-09-2015, 09:56 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You act like Dalton always plays like crap when his team plays like crap around him. That's simply not true. Just for example look at the Patriots game last year. Dalton played great, but the rest of the team not even close.


So you don't think that was a close game last year? You don't think we almost lost it in the fourth quarter, and Dalton had to make a really good throw to A.J. Green (which wasn't under-thrown stop with that nonsense). Yeah I guess that doesn't fit your narrative though. Keep making me laugh.

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Week-1-AJ-Green-highlights/9b826a77-65a5-41c3-a48e-b086eb010886

The pass happens around the 40sec mark in the vid. Please watch it so that you can erase the beautiful in stride pass you have etched in your vivid imagination. 
AT 44 sec you can see Green who has the defender burnt by a full stride has to turn (ala adjust because the ball is underthrown) to haul in the throw. It was a good pass that did not have enough to hit the receiver in stride. It forced Green to adjust and make a bobbling catch. Green did the rest. The play you have etched in your mid has green running under a beautiful high arching pass and running into the endzone uncontested...lol.

Done discussing this play BTW. This game was not an example of Dalton overcoming the poor play of the rest of the team. It does not match the criteria of the question...but I love your effort. I only wish Dalton had your heart!

(09-09-2015, 10:24 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Week-1-AJ-Green-highlights/9b826a77-65a5-41c3-a48e-b086eb010886

The pass happens around the 40sec mark in the vid. Please watch it so that you can erase the beautiful in stride pass you have etched in your vivid imagination. 
AT 44 sec you can see Green who has the defender burnt by a full stride has to turn (ala adjust because the ball is underthrown) to haul in the throw. It was a good pass that did not have enough to hit the receiver in stride. It forced Green to adjust and make a bobbling catch. Green did the rest. The play you have etched in your mid has green running under a beautiful high arching pass and running into the endzone uncontested...lol.

Done discussing this play BTW. This game was not an example of Dalton overcoming the poor play of the rest of the team. It does not match the criteria of the question...but I love your effort. I only wish Dalton had your heart!

Looks like an amazing pass to me. But you want to act like Green had to pretty much stop running which isn't the case. I think that's a bad example to try and make Dalton look bad, because that was a good throw. That game shows that he can overcome adversity, because there was about 5 min left in the game, and they were behind more than a field goal. Just sweep that under the rug though. Nothing to see here.

(09-08-2015, 03:45 AM)JonasNJ Wrote: 2 of their predictions are Bengals related, and i think especially number 2 is very interesting.
I like Dalton, however i see the same issue that some of you guys - Dalton flukes way too often and just breaks down.!


1:
Andy Dalton throws more TDs than Peyton Manning

I'm no Andy Dalton fan, but I love the talented Bengals offense. With a loaded backfield and A.J. Green, Mohamed Sanu and a healthy Marvin Jones in tow, Cincy's starting quarterback has no more excuses. He'll toss his share of drive-crushing picks, but Dalton is two years removed from a 33-touchdown campaign. This prediction, though, is more about Manning, who is months away from turning 40. Yes, Denver's quarterback is one of the greatest signal-callers in NFL history, but age-old passers tap out quick. Brett Favre's final season saw him throw just 11 touchdowns over 13 starts. Manning's a legend, but this season will mark the end. -- Marc Sessler


2:
McCarron makes at least one start before taking over Bengals' O in '16

AJ McCarron will make at least one start this season before the Bengals turn over their offense to the young quarterback in 2016. This organization isn't known for bold strokes, but patience is wearing thin with Andy Dalton's penchant for face-planting in big games. Stuck in quarterback purgatory with Dalton, the coaching staff believes McCarron is "fully capable of becoming a starting-quality player," NFL Media's Albert Breer reported in June. McCarron made three impressive throws in the third preseason game that we simply don't see in Dalton's repertoire. Armed with the most loaded offense of his tenure in Cincinnati, Marvin Lewis can turn to McCarron if necessary, knowing that Dalton's six-year, $96 million contract is essentially a year-to-year proposal with an escape clause available next offseason. -- Chris Wesseling

Here is link to the rest :
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000523584/article/bold-predictions-for-the-2015-season

#1. they aren't saying AD > Manning.  They are saying Manning is going to have an awful year
#2. how can you judge AJM's preseason against 2nd, 3rd, & camp guys against VS. AD's play against the NFL's elite? PREseason is just that... getting into football shape, relearning the playbook, competing for roster slots and maybe game time for some.  It is rarely a reliable predictor of the season.

I recently read that someone @ FoxSports thinks we win our first playoff game (scroll to bottom):

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/10-bold-predictions-to-kick-off-the-2015-nfl-season/ar-AAe4rCM

(09-09-2015, 09:56 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: You act like Dalton always plays like crap when his team plays like crap around him. That's simply not true. Just for example look at the Patriots game last year. Dalton played great, but the rest of the team not even close.

You make the point for me. 

When the team is not playing well Dalton 's best is not good enough. He had a rating of 117...had 15 completions for 200 yards. Did a nice job of not throwing any ints. 
His best is not good enough to pick up a team that needs dynamic play from the QB. 
Thank you...this is probably the best example of the point that Dalton does not have enough in the tank to be the type of QB this team will need to play and beat playoff teams.

BTW the question was to point out a win not a loss. 

(09-09-2015, 10:34 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: You make the point for me. 

When the team is not playing well Dalton 's best is not good enough. He had a rating of 117...had 15 completions for 200 yards. Did a nice job of not throwing any ints. 
His best is not good enough to pick up a team that needs dynamic play from the QB. 
Thank you...this is probably the best example of the point that Dalton does not have enough in the tank to be the type of QB this team will need to play and beat playoff teams.

BTW the question was to point out a win not a loss. 

Haha ok man. Show me a QB who does that, because even Aaron Rodgers doesn't win when his team plays bad.

(09-09-2015, 10:31 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Looks like an amazing pass to me. But you want to act like Green had to pretty much stop running which isn't the case. I think that's a bad example to try and make Dalton look bad, because that was a good throw. That game shows that he can overcome adversity, because there was about 5 min left in the game, and they were behind more than a field goal. Just sweep that under the rug though. Nothing to see here.

That is a pretty darn good pass.  Did he lead the receiver? No. But that was about a yard difference between leading him and not.  And if I saw correctly that was a 42-yard throw.  1-yard off on a 42-yard throw..... does not look bad to me either.  

And if AJ actually caught it cleanly, his stride would not have been affected.  And he would have been in the endzone w/o any moves.

(09-09-2015, 10:24 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/videos/Week-1-AJ-Green-highlights/9b826a77-65a5-41c3-a48e-b086eb010886

The pass happens around the 40sec mark in the vid. Please watch it so that you can erase the beautiful in stride pass you have etched in your vivid imagination. 
AT 44 sec you can see Green who has the defender burnt by a full stride has to turn (ala adjust because the ball is underthrown) to haul in the throw. It was a good pass that did not have enough to hit the receiver in stride. It forced Green to adjust and make a bobbling catch. Green did the rest. The play you have etched in your mid has green running under a beautiful high arching pass and running into the endzone uncontested...lol.

(09-09-2015, 10:31 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Looks like an amazing pass to me. But you want to act like Green had to pretty much stop running which isn't the case. I think that's a bad example to try and make Dalton look bad, because that was a good throw. That game shows that he can overcome adversity, because there was about 5 min left in the game, and they were behind more than a field goal. Just sweep that under the rug though. Nothing to see here.

I think you are both overselling your respective sides a bit here.

It was a pretty good pass but A.J. did have to turn to make an adjustment. If he hits him in stride there, I'd say it would qualify for an "amazing" pass, but as it is, I think we could settle on "good" here. Not many QBs are going to consistently hit A.J. in stride there though, so I'm giving Andy props for what he did do, and he definitely didn't melt under pressure of a close game.

Andy melting down when the team plays poorly around him was a huge concern to me from 2011 - 2013, but he had at least 3 or 4 games in 2014 where he played very well despite the team screwing up, which is a great sign for the future. Let's hope he continues that (or let's hope the rest of the team doesn't play poorly at all actually!).

(09-09-2015, 10:44 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: That is a pretty darn good pass.  Did he lead the receiver? No. But that was about a yard difference between leading him and not.  And if I saw correctly that was a 42-yard throw.  1-yard off on a 42-yard throw..... does not look bad to me either.  

And if AJ actually caught it cleanly, his stride would not have been affected.  And he would have been in the endzone w/o any moves.

Especially considering that the DB was on the ground after diving to try to make a play on the ball.  There isn't any reason Green should not have caught it cleanly.  

Great start to the season.  Getting a win on the road in Baltimore in comeback fashion.  

(09-09-2015, 12:35 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Especially considering that the DB was on the ground after diving to try to make a play on the ball.  There isn't any reason Green should not have caught it cleanly.  

Great start to the season.  Getting a win on the road in Baltimore in comeback fashion.  

Regardless of having to make that slight adjustment to the ball, I do agree that A.J. should have caught it cleanly there. There's no good excuse there for the bobble. Andy's throw wasn't as perfect as some want to make it seem, but it was on target enough that your top receiver needs to bring it in without juggling.

(09-09-2015, 12:44 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Regardless of having to make that slight adjustment to the ball, I do agree that A.J. should have caught it cleanly there. There's no good excuse there for the bobble. Andy's throw wasn't as perfect as some want to make it seem, but it was on target enough that your top receiver needs to bring it in without juggling.

The thing some people need to remember (and I'm not speaking of you, djs) is that no QB throws on target passes every pass. Even the greatest routinely rely on their receivers to make a play on the ball. That's not to say that Dalton (or any QB) can't or shouldn't improve on his accuracy, just that he (or any QB) shouldn't be held to an impossible standard (again, just to be clear, not talking about you, djs) of accuracy.

(09-09-2015, 10:51 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Not many QBs are going to consistently hit A.J. in stride there though, so I'm giving Andy props for what he did do, and he definitely didn't melt under pressure of a close game.

(09-09-2015, 12:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The thing some people need to remember (and I'm not speaking of you, djs) is that no QB throws on target passes every pass. Even the greatest routinely rely on their receivers to make a play on the ball. That's not to say that Dalton (or any QB) can't or shouldn't improve on his accuracy, just that he (or any QB) shouldn't be held to an impossible standard (again, just to be clear, not talking about you, djs) of accuracy.

I completely agree, I just can't get on board with calling it an amazing pass if it wasn't an amazing pass. I won't hold him to a crazy standard, but I also won't over-exaggerate what he DID do positively either. Let's not forget that even the most elite WRs in the league make mistakes as well, so we shouldn't be holding A.J. to an impossible standard either. I think a lot of our guys get bashed unnecessarily and are held to some crazy standards, and that's not even about just Andy or A.J. JJ Watt gets stood up sometimes, Aaron Rodgers will throw some ducks over the course of a game. Shit happens.

I clipped out a part of my earlier post above, so I certainly agree with your general point here. As I said in another post too, A.J. has no excuse to bobble that pass whether he had to slightly re-adjust or not. I'm just glad he held on and make the moves to get in the end zone.