(09-24-2018, 11:40 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why is no one talking about the awful ball Andy threw? That thing was a duck and was begging to be picked off.

Ross did stop on his route, but if Andy threw it to the post, where it should have been, then that ball would never have been intercepted. Its both of their faults.

It was the same route he threw to Eiffert earlier in the game that he made that great contested catch on. It wasn't a post, the sight adjustment was to stay on the seam. The CB had inside leverage so throwing the seam back shoulder provided body protection to the ball. Dalton knew the adjustment and it's why he was pissed on the sideline, Ross didn't and just stopped. AJ, Boyd, Eiffert all make the corrected adjustment on that ball. There is a reason Dalton keeps getting intercepted throwing to Ross, he isn't making the correct sight adjustments as the play develops. Contrary to what most people think routes have built in mid play changes based on what the CB does. The team basically has standards that when CB does X you change to Y, but in this situation you do Z. To me is just seems Ross doesn't really know what he is supposed to be doing in each situation.

(09-24-2018, 11:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: It was the same route he threw to Eiffert earlier in the game that he made that great contested catch on. It wasn't a post, the sight adjustment was to stay on the seam. The CB had inside leverage so throwing the seam back shoulder provided body protection to the ball. Dalton knew the adjustment and it's why he was pissed on the sideline, Ross didn't and just stopped. AJ, Boyd, Eiffert all make the corrected adjustment on that ball. There is a reason Dalton keeps getting intercepted throwing to Ross, he isn't making the correct sight adjustments as the play develops. Contrary to what most people think routes have built in mid play changes based on what the CB does. The team basically has standards that when CB does X you change to Y, but in this situation you do Z. To me is just seems Ross doesn't really know what he is supposed to be doing in each situation.

If Dalton puts that ball in front of Ross its a huge play. The post is open.
Joe Goodberry would beg to differ with you. And no offense, but I trust his analysis and thoughts on this play more than yours. It was a bad ball. 





Goodberry‏Verified account @JoeGoodberry 9h9 hours ago
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"How do you know that's the route he's supposed to run?"

Because the Bengals ran that play 3 times already this season and once earlier in today's game. Then I double checked it with other teams around the league to see how they run it.

It's a post route.

(09-24-2018, 11:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: It was the same route he threw to Eiffert earlier in the game that he made that great contested catch on. It wasn't a post, the sight adjustment was to stay on the seam. The CB had inside leverage so throwing the seam back shoulder provided body protection to the ball. Dalton knew the adjustment and it's why he was pissed on the sideline, Ross didn't and just stopped. AJ, Boyd, Eiffert all make the corrected adjustment on that ball. There is a reason Dalton keeps getting intercepted throwing to Ross, he isn't making the correct sight adjustments as the play develops. Contrary to what most people think routes have built in mid play changes based on what the CB does. The team basically has standards that when CB does X you change to Y, but in this situation you do Z. To me is just seems Ross doesn't really know what he is supposed to be doing in each situation.

Bingo !

The vast majority of routes have built in if this happens you do that if that happens you do this and so on. 

Ross isn't up to speed in fact he's crawling

(09-24-2018, 10:49 AM)Wyche Wrote: As he should have.....that was awful.

At the game yesterday and Ross was awful.

He strikes me as someone who has always got by because of his athleticism.

That is not nearly good enough in the NFL.

On the first INT Ross got completely boxed out/out fought for the ball

On the second he quit.

I would trade him for Callaway tomorrow.

Attitude and lack of focus and effort are very obvious.

Wonder why Marv was mad at him last year- now I know.

(09-24-2018, 11:58 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Bingo !

The vast majority of routes have built in if this happens you do that if that happens you do this and so on. 

Ross isn't up to speed in fact he's crawling

Watch the tape: 

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1044021827616624641



The DB is literally taking away the "seam" or "go route" and the post is pretty much wide open. The route was a post all the way. It was an awful ball. 


Ross still quit on the play, but Dalton threw an awful pass. 

(09-24-2018, 11:57 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Joe Goodberry would beg to differ with you. And no offense, but I trust his analysis and thoughts on this play more than yours. It was a bad ball. 





Goodberry‏Verified account @JoeGoodberry 9h9 hours ago
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"How do you know that's the route he's supposed to run?"

Because the Bengals ran that play 3 times already this season and once earlier in today's game. Then I double checked it with other teams around the league to see how they run it.

It's a post route.

I'll disagree until I get a chance to see the full 22. It may have been designed to be a post, but to me it looks like they changed it to a seam based on his depth. He was at almost 25 yards before even moving inside (a very non committed one at that), depth on a break for a post is anywhere form 10-20 yards at 25 is when Ross breaks and Dalton releases at 18ish yards down field. This is why to me Dalton expected him to just carrying it up field and threw it back shoulder. If you look where the ball ended up it was on line with a back shoulder seam.

(09-24-2018, 11:57 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If Dalton puts that ball in front of Ross its a huge play. The post is open.
Joe Goodberry would beg to differ with you. And no offense, but I trust his analysis and thoughts on this play more than yours. It was a bad ball. 





Goodberry‏Verified account @JoeGoodberry 9h9 hours ago
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"How do you know that's the route he's supposed to run?"

Because the Bengals ran that play 3 times already this season and once earlier in today's game. Then I double checked it with other teams around the league to see how they run it.

It's a post route.

How does Joe Goodberry know?  I see this cat all of the time.....but what, exactly, are his credentials?  I mean, why isn't he a scout or coach somewhere?  He's a journalist.

Ross stopped on a route.  He wasn't even looking back at the QB (you know, like Tyler Boyd was TWICE when the pocket broke down and moved to get open).  He's playing like shit right now, no two ways about it.

This guy is praising John Ross all over twitter.....he just can't stand to admit he's wrong.  Typical blowhard.

(09-24-2018, 12:02 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Watch the tape: 

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1044021827616624641



The DB is literally taking away the "seam" or "go route" and the post is pretty much wide open. The route was a post all the way. It was an awful ball. 


Ross still quit on the play, but Dalton threw an awful pass. 

Look at ball placement, it would have been right on his back shoulder on his previous downfield track. CB DID NOT take the seam away. He was cheating inside playing the post. He had no help so it was a one on one shot.

(09-24-2018, 11:57 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If Dalton puts that ball in front of Ross its a huge play. The post is open.
Joe Goodberry would beg to differ with you. And no offense, but I trust his analysis and thoughts on this play more than yours. It was a bad ball. 





Goodberry‏Verified account @JoeGoodberry 9h9 hours ago
More


"How do you know that's the route he's supposed to run?"

Because the Bengals ran that play 3 times already this season and once earlier in today's game. Then I double checked it with other teams around the league to see how they run it.

It's a post route.

Goodberry is garbage

To go ahead and expand on this, yes while the route was a post at snap the issue is what was the defense? To me it looked like cover 3 which means that inside seam can't take the post because there is a backside safety rolling under it out of frame. Andy, a veteran, sees cover 3 with a post and knows you don't throw the post on 3 you throw the seam. He is expecting Ross an NFL WR to know this and carry the post into a seam and do what every other team does and attack cover 3 up the seams.

Quick update: Watched again #28 is in fact a safety so that was cover 3. While it looks like he could have beat the safety at the end based on where he was when Dalton saw the safety roll before throwing he knows that becomes a seam adjustment.

(09-24-2018, 12:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: To go ahead and expand on this, yes while the route was a post at snap the issue is what was the defense? To me it looked like cover 3 which means that inside seam can't take the post because there is a backside safety rolling under it out of frame. Andy, a veteran, sees cover 3 with a post and knows you don't throw the post on 3 you throw the seam. He is expecting Ross an NFL WR to know this and carry the post into a seam and do what every other team does and attack cover 3 up the seams.

This is why I said I needed to see the all 22. If the back side safety is rolling under then it was in fact a sight adjustment no doubt about it.

To me, it's an obvious miscommunication.  No QB throws a ball directly to a DB like that without there being one.....

I used to enjoy Goodberry on twitter, but following him is starting to remind me of C. Trent Rosecrans' coverage of the Reds. Figured it would happen once Goodberry went to The Athletic, and as I feared, the condescension/smugness is now oozing from his twitter account just like C. Trent. He now resorting to blocking followers who dare disagree with his subjective analysis.

What Goodberry can't/won't comprehend here is that even if it was a bad throw (I agree that it was), Ross cannot simply quit on the play. He has to at least try to turn into a defender and break up the interception (like Tyler Boyd did last week against Baltimore). And while we're at it, I would also question Ross' effort on the deep ball earlier in the game. Looked catchable to me if he lays out for it.

(09-24-2018, 12:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: To me, it's an obvious miscommunication.  No QB throws a ball directly to a DB like that without there being one.....

Right, the reason I am so adamant it was an adjustment is where the ball ended up. It was right on track for a seam. Take into account that is the proper throw against cover 3 not the post and Dalton's reaction on the sideline tells me Ross missed and adjustment. 

(09-24-2018, 12:02 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Watch the tape: 

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1044021827616624641



The DB is literally taking away the "seam" or "go route" and the post is pretty much wide open. The route was a post all the way. It was an awful ball. 


Ross still quit on the play, but Dalton threw an awful pass. 

Ffffsss you cant even see anything from this video.  There is way better video showing his whole route. Why not post that one?

(09-24-2018, 08:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is not his first year of football guys. He should know a receiver needs to run his complete route as if he's getting the ball, even if his number is not called, because the play called may break down into a scramble drill. That's first year coaching..... him quitting on that play is nothing more than pure laziness.

I think it's just stupidity and lack of mental toughness.   He's done this before and even Dalton called him out last year on it.   Ross doesn't seem the kind of guy to be lazy, I just don't think he's got the mentality to be an NFL receiver.  He loses focus, appears to be confused and doesn't finish out his routes.

He's another Simpson situation.  The Bengals have a long history of biting on elite athleticism and ignoring what the player has between his ears.

(09-24-2018, 11:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: It was the same route he threw to Eiffert earlier in the game that he made that great contested catch on. It wasn't a post, the sight adjustment was to stay on the seam. The CB had inside leverage so throwing the seam back shoulder provided body protection to the ball. Dalton knew the adjustment and it's why he was pissed on the sideline, Ross didn't and just stopped. AJ, Boyd, Eiffert all make the corrected adjustment on that ball. There is a reason Dalton keeps getting intercepted throwing to Ross, he isn't making the correct sight adjustments as the play develops. Contrary to what most people think routes have built in mid play changes based on what the CB does. The team basically has standards that when CB does X you change to Y, but in this situation you do Z. To me is just seems Ross doesn't really know what he is supposed to be doing in each situation.

This is a big reason young WR's struggle coming out of college, where they normally have a set route each play and it's entirely up to the OC to out think the DC.  Even if you forget your sight adjustment, you still have to run the play out just to keep the defender from freelancing, though.  You can't just stop.

(09-24-2018, 11:38 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I never once saw aj stop on a rout..  that is peewee football mistakes not nfl.

Lap did call out AJ for his lack of effort in getting on one of his fumbles in the Colts game.

(09-24-2018, 12:23 PM)Lionel Hutz Wrote: I used to enjoy Goodberry on twitter, but following him is starting to remind me of C. Trent Rosecrans' coverage of the Reds.  Figured it would happen once Goodberry went to The Athletic, and as I feared, the condescension/smugness is now oozing from his twitter account just like C. Trent.  He now resorting to blocking followers who dare disagree with his subjective analysis.

What Goodberry can't/won't comprehend here is that even if it was a bad throw (I agree that it was), Ross cannot simply quit on the play.  He has to at least try to turn into a defender and break up the interception (like Tyler Boyd did last week against Baltimore).  And while we're at it, I would also question Ross' effort on the deep ball earlier in the game. Looked catchable to me if he lays out for it.

Goodberry hasnt been arguing this, and im not arguing it either. I think blame goes both ways. 

(09-24-2018, 12:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: To me, it's an obvious miscommunication.  No QB throws a ball directly to a DB like that without there being one.....

This.

It was an awful pass and effort because they were not on the same page. Ross was not catching that ball even if he looks for it. Looks like AD thinks it's supposed to be a go-route, but Ross runs a deep post. Ross should never, ever quit on a play, but there were mistakes on AD for not communicating with his WR. Hopefully they fix it and move on.

Ross is not going anywhere.

So I don't know  much of Ross's background and decided to do some research. Going with WIkipedia,  I'm disappointed to what I find:

College career

"Ross played in all 13 games as a true freshman at Washington in 2013. He finished the year with 16 receptions for 208 yards and one touchdown as a receiver and had 720 kick return yards and a touchdown.[7] In 2014, he played in 13 of 14 games, with seven starts as a receiver and four as a cornerback. That season, he had 17 receptions for 371 yards and four touchdowns as a receiver, 12 tackles and an interception as a cornerback, and had 938 return yards and two touchdowns.[8][9] Ross missed the 2015 season after suffering a torn ACL during spring practices.[10] Ross returned from the injury in 2016 and had five receptions for 90 yards with two receiving touchdowns and a kick return touchdown in his first game back against Rutgers.[11][12][13] On January 3, 2017, Ross announced his decision to forego his senior season and enter the NFL Draft.[14] On February 10, 2017, it was revealed that Ross was diagnosed with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He injured his shoulder earlier during the 2016 season, and re-aggravated it on December 31 in a loss against Alabama in the 2016 Peach Bowl in the College Football Playoff. The injury required surgery, but Ross decided to put it on hold until after the NFL Scouting Combine and pro day workouts.[15] "

So he was out for 1 season with a torn ACL, and then ON TOP OF THAT, he decides to forego his Senior year!! WHAT? you serious??? Then ON TOP OF that, he  plays a good chunk of another year as a CORNERBACK?!?!?!?!?! This really boils my blood. With all this baggage, the cincinnati bengals draft a hardly season proven player. Now I know why Marvin dislike this guy. WTH decided to draft this kid in the bengals org. So if we go by everyone's reasoning, not only is he still a "rookie" because he missed last season, he is still a "college" player. FFS!!!!! Now I really dislike everything to do with this player. With his dropsies reputation he's gaining, I can see why he played cornerback in high school and college. Maybe to save face for being a bust draft pick, we can put him with Kirkpatrick to help him out. His stats doesn't make him a #1 draft pick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_(American_football)