Who knows if the coaching or philosophy would of been the same. Maybe Hunt and Watkins complement him very well. There’s to many variables to predict what could of been if we would of got either of
Them

Drafting looking back is always in hindsight.
Everyone picks a lesser player before a Pro Bowler, happens every year. No one can look into the future.

Just like with Watson. Looked great last year. This year, he's been pretty subpar.
Sure, his stats look decent, but he threw 2 late TDs against the Giants, one was a drive with 2:08 to go and the game out of reach.
Same with the Patriots. Late in the game stats.
Although he did look good against the Colts.

We can look back to the 2016, 2015, and 2014 draft. Every team misses. Every team will take need over BPA. Very rarely does a team go full on BPA.
And even then, Watson and Mahomes weren't BPA. Sure, looking back now they seem that way. But it's literally year 2.
Do you know how many players look great their first two years and then it goes downhill? Or even takes longer than 2 years to catch fire?


If we were to talk about 2014 draft class, you have a much clearer picture. It's far too early to tell with the 2017 draft class.

1. Hindsight is 20/20.

2. Mahomes maybe (although we've seen plenty of 4 game stars plummet to earth). Which brings me to Watson. That guy isn't playing as well this year. He's been getting garbage time stats, but the consensus is that he isn't looking so hot this time around.

3. Not so sure Mahomes would be killing it without Andy Reid. Alex Smith was an early MVP candidate last year. Keep that in mind.

Did you not see dalton throwna laser from the 22 yard line into double coverage to win against the falcons??

Even with hindsight i would still take dalton. Guys like mahomes dont last.

(10-02-2018, 11:41 AM)thillan Wrote: Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

Chiefs and Texans NEEDED QBs. We didn't!

Texans had Osweiler, Weeden and Savage. Chiefs didn't want to extend Smith who was on his next to last year, to a cap crippling deal.

Reid has shown over and over again that his philosophy is quarterback friendly.

We needed speed to protect AJ and keep the defenses honest.

The thought process was/is that we hav a 3-4 year window of competing, before age and cap issues arise. So you build around the QB rather than replace the QB who two years before that draft, led us to 10-2 record.

Your post, in my opinion, is a product of a winning week when there isn't much to criticize and boredom.

I guess that's a good luxury on both fronts.

Dalton is good enough and youthful enough that we were right to not draft his replacement in 2017. With that being said, the Alex Smith to Pat Mahommes transition does show that it can be of benefit to think ahead rather than wait until your team is 2-14 and you can't help but get your pick of the QB litter.

Football seasons are so short that it’s nice to take in and savor the high points. This last game was the most leadership that I can recall ever seeing from Dalton... and on the road too. Dalton has looked like a top ten QB this year, there are several more pressing needs than QB.

But, we have the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL

Andy is continuously underrated, even by Bengals fans. Mahomes looks the part. It’s hard to argue against a guy setting records like this, but I’m going to wait and see how he finishes. He isn’t going to keep this up, that I am certain of. It was the same thing with Watson.

As far as Watson goes, Andy is currently better than him and it isn’t like Andy is declining. As a matter of fact, Andy has only been improving in the last three years. Andy excels at pre-snap/post-snap reads. He is great at identifying blitz packages and audibling to beat them (Andy currently has the highest passer rating in the league when he is blitzed.) He also has solid physical tools to work with. He can make any throw you need of him, he can extend a play and throw well on the run.

This isn’t to say that Watson WON’T be good, but Andy has undoubtedly been improving every aspect of his game for the past few years and is currently playing at a top 10 level in his 8th season. Watson is playing fairly average/slightly below average in his second season, coming off of a major knee injury.

Well i do agree with you on mahomes , im not sold on watson. Hes already been hurt once also. For the 2nd time in what 8 years im ok with dalton. And i feel pretty good if we need a comeback. But and there is a but.. when the playoffs are here and they know whats at stake will dalton turn into the deer in the headlights again. Will he turn it over. I also believe dalton is in the good enough to win a ring catagory right now. But i also feel the top elite qbs in the nfl go the farthest year in and year out.

Man, if only I had invented Facebook my senior year of HS, or if my father just had the balls to develop Microsoft, and good God, why couldn't my grandfather just have figured out how to patent color television??? Talk about missing the freakin' boat.

(10-02-2018, 11:41 AM)thillan Wrote: Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

Honestly, if i want any draft back it would be 2015....

4 picks in the top 100, 2 OT in first 2 rounds and only backup TE's to show for it (with greatest respect to Kroft, Uzo).

We did a great job before and since (e.g. 2016 was great) , but that draft and the repercussions of it took a while to recover from and arguably helped lead to not only missing playoffs but org changes too ...Zamp, Alexander.

(10-03-2018, 01:14 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Andy is continuously underrated, even by Bengals fans. Mahomes looks the part. It’s hard to argue against a guy setting records like this, but I’m going to wait and see how he finishes. He isn’t going to keep this up, that I am certain of. It was the same thing with Watson.

As far as Watson goes, Andy is currently better than him and it isn’t like Andy is declining. As a matter of fact, Andy has only been improving in the last three years. Andy excels at pre-snap/post-snap reads. He is great at identifying blitz packages and audibling to beat them (Andy currently has the highest passer rating in the league when he is blitzed.) He also has solid physical tools to work with. He can make any throw you need of him, he can extend a play and throw well on the run.

This isn’t to say that Watson WON’T be good, but Andy has undoubtedly been improving every aspect of his game for the past few years and is currently playing at a top 10 level in his 8th season. Watson is playing fairly average/slightly below average in his second season, coming off of a major knee injury.

Great post, and it highlights my 2 favorite things about Andy:

1. Dude doesn't get injured. Very durable, and makes smart plays to avoid harm as much as possible. 

2. He looks like he has the chance to be one of these QBs who can play well into the late 30s. He has the accuracy and above average arm strength. As long as he stays healthy (which he has shown he excels at), he can keep this level of play up for a long time. 

(10-03-2018, 11:39 AM)thillan Wrote: Great post, and it highlights my 2 favorite things about Andy:

1. Dude doesn't get injured. Very durable, and makes smart plays to avoid harm as much as possible. 

2. He looks like he has the chance to be one of these QBs who can play well into the late 30s. He has the accuracy and above average arm strength. As long as he stays healthy (which he has shown he excels at), he can keep this level of play up for a long time. 

If that is all true, then why this post? Is it because KC has a shiny new toy? If we were 1-3 and all of Andy's ints were thrown right at the DB then I might agree with you. Actually I can think of maybe 1 were it wasn't a WR's fault and that was a defender hitting AD's arm as he released it.

(10-03-2018, 12:12 PM)sandwedge Wrote: If that is all true, then why this post? Is it because KC has a shiny new toy? If we were 1-3 and all of Andy's ints were thrown right at the DB then I might agree with you. Actually I can think of maybe 1 were it wasn't a WR letting it bounce off their hands and that was a defender hitting AD's arm as he released it.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I've made my thoughts known about Andy.

When I look at my football team, I want the biggest mismatch possible at every position. Which is why I liked the John Ross pick too, since speed is one of the best weapons in football.

If we're looking at past drafts and talking about replacements, I wouldn't mind having Carson Wentz. I know he's playing rough this year, but that's because of the knee injury. Though players get back on the field faster than ever, they're not as good their first year back. Year 2 after the injury is when they seem to have their feet back under them and back to themselves. That bring me to DeShaun Watson. I believe he will be good again. He also injured his knee last season and I believe he will get better as the soon goes on. It's only been 11 months since his injury. I think he will be closer to his rookie season next year than this year.

Patrick Mahomes is blowing my mind right now. The level he is playing at is unreal. He's 5 starts into his career though. Again, the kid is playing lights out. I am not trying to take anything away from how special he is playing. It's 5 starts though.

I see no need to replace Dalton now or even for the next couple of seasons. He's signed through 2020 and I honestly wouldn't mind if the team extended him before then. If they are planning on replacing him, I would probably look to draft a QB in the 2020 draft and let him sit for a season and learn. Dalton is on an extremely team friendly deal and producing at a high rate. I'd rather roll with that knowing he gives us a good chance at winning than to move on from him and roll the dice, at least for the next couple of seasons.

Actually Buffalo blew it. They needed a QB and traded the pick to KC and they took Mahomes.

KC played that situation perfectly. They had a 'good' QB in Smith (much like Bengals Dalton) but they believed Smith would not win them a SB. So they drafted a possible replacement, if he worked out they could trade or let go Smith. If he did not work out you have Smith.

The key factor in their thinking was they knew Smith was not likely good enough to win a SB. You can say they took a risk by moving to Mahomes this this year but they did it to get a SB, not to be 'in the mix'.

This is the difference between KC and us. Brown is happy to be competitive, but he wont take the risks to get to the top.

(10-03-2018, 11:46 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: If we're looking at past drafts and talking about replacements, I wouldn't mind having Carson Wentz. I know he's playing rough this year, but that's because of the knee injury. Though players get back on the field faster than ever, they're not as good their first year back. Year 2 after the injury is when they seem to have their feet back under them and back to themselves. That bring me to DeShaun Watson. I believe he will be good again. He also injured his knee last season and I believe he will get better as the soon goes on. It's only been 11 months since his injury. I think he will be closer to his rookie season next year than this year.

Patrick Mahomes is blowing my mind right now. The level he is playing at is unreal. He's 5 starts into his career though. Again, the kid is playing lights out. I am not trying to take anything away from how special he is playing. It's 5 starts though.

I see no need to replace Dalton now or even for the next couple of seasons. He's signed through 2020 and I honestly wouldn't mind if the team extended him before then. If they are planning on replacing him, I would probably look to draft a QB in the 2020 draft and let him sit for a season and learn. Dalton is on an extremely team friendly deal and producing at a high rate. I'd rather roll with that knowing he gives us a good chance at winning than to move on from him and roll the dice, at least for the next couple of seasons.

Watson is actually playing pretty well, it's just the exact same defense as we had for Dalton last few years when we said "he's playing as well as he can behind this line." Watson is on pace to be sacked 68 times this year. But we won't defend him the same, because he isn't the Bengals QB.

In my mind, Watson is still playing pretty well with what he's got.

(10-03-2018, 11:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually Buffalo blew it. They needed a QB and traded the pick to KC and they took Mahomes.

Agreed, though I think they made a good pick in Josh Allen. But that man is at risk of being ruined by that awful team. He made a terrible decision on one throw last week, but he is another guy with freak ability and an absolute rocket on his arm. Buffalo better surround him with talent before they ruin his growth.

(10-02-2018, 11:59 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Funny how fans want to make changes when the team is playing great..... It just boggles my mind...

That was my thought. Bengals are 3-1 and in First Place, and the OP is complaining about Dalton.  I would like to point out to the so called fans that keep saying Browns are better, that Browns lost again last week. 2 wins in 3 seasons, Oh Boy.  Steelers lost also and in last place with Browns. If it sounds like I'm rubbing it in on Browns and Steelers fans, I am.  Bengals 3-1 and in FIRST PLACE.