Just sayin'

In regard to JJ Watt, I think many people are disregarding the fact that he is 3-4 defensive end. Historically, 3-4 defensive ends haven't been great pass rushers and are meant to take up blockers so the pass rushing LBers can get to the QB. Not only is Watt great against the run but he is historic at rushing the passer. He has evolved the position.

Hell I wouldn’t even say watt is better than strahan yet

Super Bowl champion (XLII)
7× Pro Bowl (1997–1999, 2001–2003, 2005)
4× First-team All-Pro (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003)
2× Second-team All-Pro (2002, 2005)
2× NFL sacks leader (2001, 2003)
NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2001)
NFL 2000s All-Decade Team
New York Giants Ring of Honor

He damn sure isn’t on lts level yet. Lmk when he wins a super bowl and maybe we can talk

Yeah I am going to have to side with L.T. as the GOAT defensive player. Watt has basically missed two season due to injury, so that will hurt him when comparing him to all time greats. If he can go on the next few season and put up monster numbers and win a Super Bowl, then we'll see. Otherwise, no, L.T. is the GOAT.

(10-09-2018, 04:52 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: And Watts isn't? 4 All pros, 4 pro bowls, and 2 DPOY isn't impressive?

Ofc it’s impressive, it’s just not as impressive as LT’s list:

2× Super Bowl champion (XXI, XXV)
10× Pro Bowl (1981–1990)
8× First-team All-Pro (1981–1986, 1988, 1989)
2× Second-team All-Pro (1987, 1990)
NFL Most Valuable Player (1986)
Bert Bell Award (1986)
3× NFL Defensive Player of the Year (1981, 1982, 1986)
NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (1981)
NFL sacks leader (1986)

Let’s wait and see what Watt does the rest of career before anointing him the GOAT...

(10-09-2018, 09:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ofc it’s impressive, it’s just not as impressive as LT’s list:

2× Super Bowl champion (XXI, XXV)
10× Pro Bowl (1981–1990)
8× First-team All-Pro (1981–1986, 1988, 1989)
2× Second-team All-Pro (1987, 1990)
NFL Most Valuable Player (1986)
Bert Bell Award (1986)
3× NFL Defensive Player of the Year (1981, 1982, 1986)
NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (1981)
NFL sacks leader (1986)

Let’s wait and see what Watt does the rest of career before anointing him the GOAT...

Yep.  And it ain't even all that close.  

Just a few observations.

LT only led the league in sacks once, but he changed the entire game. No LB played like him before.

JJ Watt is arguably the greatest defensive player of all time. I wish there was a place where you could see the yearly leaders in TFL because Watt would not just lead the league, but he would lead by a wide margin. IN 14 and 15 he had 29 each year when no one else had more than 23. In 12 he had 39. I am not sure how many the guy in second place had but I could not find anyone with more than 20.

(10-09-2018, 05:45 PM)Synric Wrote: And Lawrence Taylor had 20 sacks in the 80s when they ran the ball more often than throw. 

Sacks are going to be a more common stat going forward with how the NFL is changing.

Justin Houston had 22 sacks one season more than JJ Watt and Lawrence Taylor ever did in a single season. Does that even out him in the same catagory?

Nope. Stats do no win that arguement.

Why not because they go against your point?

(10-09-2018, 05:50 PM)McC Wrote: With all due love and respect, history is kicking your ass on this argument.

How? 

(10-09-2018, 06:47 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: Hell I wouldn’t even say watt is better than strahan yet

Super Bowl champion (XLII)
7× Pro Bowl (1997–1999, 2001–2003, 2005)
4× First-team All-Pro (1997, 1998, 2001, 2003)
2× Second-team All-Pro (2002, 2005)
2× NFL sacks leader (2001, 2003)
NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2001)
NFL 2000s All-Decade Team
New York Giants Ring of Honor

He damn sure isn’t on lts level yet. Lmk when he wins a super bowl and maybe we can talk

Winning a Superbowl is a team achievement not an individual achievement.

(10-09-2018, 10:43 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: How? 

Watt has four of this and four of that, whereas LT has eight of this and ten of that, has 2 rings, and more of everything than Watt.  What it comes down to is that Watt hasn't done it for long enough yet to be considered the best.  He may someday, if he adds another four, five years of dominant play.

(10-09-2018, 10:42 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Why not because they go against your point?

Lol. That is not it at all. Let me throw it at you like this...

Barry Sanders greatest running back ever. But Im pretty sure Erick Dickerson has some of the best single season stats and probably really close to career stats as Sanders.

I say Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defender because of his impact on the game of football.

PS: Another good example would be Tom Brady and Drew Brees.

(10-09-2018, 10:50 PM)McC Wrote: Watt has four of this and four of that, whereas LT has eight of this and ten of that, has 2 rings, and more of everything than Watt.  What it comes down to is that Watt hasn't done it for long enough yet to be considered the best.  He may someday, if he adds another four, five years of dominant play.

If Watt stays healthy he will. There hasn't been a player who has done what Watt has done in a 5 year period. Watt has done it at a harder position( interior position be edge player)  in a harder era with more athletic players.

(10-09-2018, 11:05 PM)Synric Wrote: Lol. That is not it at all. Let me throw it at you like this...

Barry Sanders greatest running back ever. But Im pretty sure Erick Dickerson has some of the best single season stats and probably really close to career stats as Sanders.

I say Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defender because of his impact on the game of football.

PS: Another good example would be Tom Brady and Drew Brees.

You keep ignoring the fact that Watt impacts every part of the game. From run Defense with tackles for loss, pass coverage with pass break ups, and of course Sacks. The guy when healthy is doing stuff no other defensive player has ever done in the history of the game. 

Also a better comparison would be Manning vs Brady; which Manning is better but since Brady teams won more Superbowls he gets the nod as the goat because his teams won more Superbowls than Manning.

Also what about Emmit Smith vs Barry Sanders? Emmit had more titles than Barry but does that make him better? I would doubt anyone would make  that argument.

(10-09-2018, 11:25 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: You keep ignoring the fact that Watt impacts every part of the game. From run Defense with tackles for loss, pass coverage with pass break ups, and of course Sacks. The guy when healthy is doing stuff no other defensive player has ever done in the history of the game. 

Also a better comparison would be Manning vs Brady; which Manning is better but since Brady teams won more Superbowls he gets the nod as the goat because his teams won more Superbowls than Manning.

Also what about Emmit Smith vs Barry Sanders? Emmit had more titles than Barry but does that make him better? I would doubt anyone would make  that argument.

JJ Watt is great there is no denying that...I believe will rack up the stats and titles like DPOY for years if he stays healthy too.

Lawrence Taylor on the other hand is more than stats and titles he changed the NFL. Offensive linemen and schemes completely changed because of him. Its something he is credited for and in my opinion nearly impossible to top...Did you know the H-Back position was created because of LT?

And I absolutely hate to rank players you can see me complaining about it in QB ranking threads lol.

Hubbard reminds you of JJ What the F@%# ?

Hubbard looks like a great pick by Bengals but much like the fact it is too early to say Watt is greatest of all time.

It is also too early to say Hubbard will become JJ Watt.

Certainly glad he is a Bengal though.

(10-09-2018, 11:11 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: If Watt stays healthy he will. There hasn't been a player who has done what Watt has done in a 5 year period. Watt has done it at a harder position( interior position be edge player)  in a harder era with more athletic players.

If is a big word sometimes. The verdict is still out on Watt in this particular argument until his career is further along. 

Until Hubbard calls Andy the little red BB gun there's no comparison.. I manifestly despise JJ Watt.. Hubbard? Not so much  

(10-09-2018, 11:25 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: You keep ignoring the fact that Watt impacts every part of the game. From run Defense with tackles for loss, pass coverage with pass break ups, and of course Sacks. The guy when healthy is doing stuff no other defensive player has ever done in the history of the game. 

Also a better comparison would be Manning vs Brady; which Manning is better but since Brady teams won more Superbowls he gets the nod as the goat because his teams won more Superbowls than Manning.

Also what about Emmit Smith vs Barry Sanders? Emmit had more titles than Barry but does that make him better? I would doubt anyone would make  that argument.

Brady has passed manning in that conversation.

Bree’s might, if he hasn’t already, pass manning too

(10-08-2018, 04:26 PM)thillan Wrote: I like the kid a lot, but I definitely don't see JJ Watt. I don't really know of a comparison yet. I just love his motor, speed, and intelligence of the game. 

Motor, speed and intelligence? Justin Smith. There's a more realistic, albeit lofty, comparison to make/hope for.