(11-09-2018, 01:26 PM)Synric Wrote: It was very close week 6. And damn were the Bengals beat up after that game...which ultimately lead to a stomping on Sunday Night Football by the Chiefs.

Most Bengals/Steelers games in the Dalton/Green era have been close.  The issue is that the head-to-head record has been very NOT close in that time period as we are 3-13 against the Steelers in this time frame.  

So that's 16 games...a full NFL season.  Nice comparison point.  3-13 is like the Browns vs the NFL.  So when we play the Steelers from 2011-today we are as accomplished as the Browns are vs the entire NFL.  That blows, and no one cares if you lose every game by 3 points (like the Browns often do) if your W/L record is lopsided crapola granola.

Just saying. The consistency at which we perform like a 3-13 team when it's time to play the Steelers or play anyone in the playoffs is staggering.

(11-09-2018, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Cowboys are so good at judging O-line coaches that means Pollack sucks also.  You want us to get rid of him too?

Not sure yet...luckily I have about 23 years left to make up my mind.

(11-09-2018, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It pains me to say this, but the Steelers have just been better than the Bengals in every phase of football and from an organizational standpoint over the past few years.

Of course they beat us on the field, but they are also drafting and getting better players and have better systems and schemes on the field. Thats what really worries me. Their offensive line was built over the past few years to be one of the best in the NFL, ours has fallen flat on its face. They reloaded at receiver with JuJu, Jesse James, and now Vance McDonald. We have John Ross who has serious durability and ability concerns. Their best offensive player decides he doesnt want to play so they plug in a rookie James Connor who is tearing it up.

Their defense is rounding into form and is taking off...ours is self destructing. Someone in that organization is doing a hell of a job with player personnel and scouting because that team just continues to reload and get it right while we continue to tread water.

This isn't a thread to build the Steelers up, its a thread to compare. The Steelers are going to be REAAAALLY good up until they lose the stability of Ben at QB and even after that im not sure that they don't go out and somehow find another HOF QB to replace him.

With Austin and Haslett on our coaching staff? Yeah, they are better, but we have just as good of players and all
we need to do is draft a playmaking LB'er, a couple good Lineman and a playmaking TE. Get rid of Austin, Haslett,
add some decent coaches and we will be better than them. The Pig won't be around much longer and their Defense
is not all that great. They had a good night last night but Cam gave them a TD and the only one on Offense playing
with any heart was McCaffrey.

(11-09-2018, 11:32 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Agree with this 100%. 

Them, the Pats, the Chiefs, Eagles are on an entire different playing field offensively and defensively (not the chiefs) than the rest of the league. Those teams are evolving while the Bengals are stuck in the mud. 

It's like they are running turbo charged engines while we are stuck with a four cylinder.

Generally the teams that win are the ones with ownership and management that don't tolerate mediocrity.

We're all relieved that PA is gone after 24 years. 24 years! That's a long time.

We have a coach who's been here what 14 years without winning a playoff game? Most coaches that leash would be 3-5 years. Maybe 6-7 max in some rare circumstances.

Then, there were rumblings from Mike Brown that Lewis needed to win or else...but then when the season ended and Lewis looked ready to move on, MB kind of panicked and brought him back.

(11-09-2018, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With Austin and Haslett on our coaching staff? Yeah, they are better, but we have just as good of players and all
we need to do is draft a playmaking LB'er, a couple good Lineman and a playmaking TE. Get rid of Austin, Haslett,
add some decent coaches and we will be better than them. The Pig won't be around much longer and their Defense
is not all that great. They had a good night last night but Cam gave them a TD and the only one on Offense playing
with any heart was McCaffrey.

By the time Ben retires we may be off the AJ Green era and into the John Ross era.  Hell, by the time Ben retires we may be headed towards a 3rd Marvin Lewis-led reboot.  Well, maybe not...point is we didn't successfully reboot this franchise in 2011 so we could compete in 2021.

Since Mike Brown became the de facto GM...the Steelers have been to the Playoffs 16 seasons. They played in 4 Super Bowls and won 2. They've appeared in 9 Conference Championship games.

The Bengals have yet to win a single playoff game.


I'd say that the Steelers have been plain better than the Bengals for longer than a few seasons.

(11-09-2018, 01:48 PM)Nately120 Wrote: By the time Ben retires we may be off the AJ Green era and into the John Ross era.  Hell, by the time Ben retires we may be headed towards a 3rd Marvin Lewis-led reboot.  Well, maybe not...point is we didn't successfully reboot this franchise in 2011 so we could compete in 2021.

And the Steelers were playing in Super Bowls before Ben too. And appearing in Conference Championship Games.

From 1990-2002 before Ben got there, they made the playoffs 8 times. They played in the Conference Championship Game 4 times and played in 1 Super Bowl.

Plain and simple they have a better organization.

(11-09-2018, 01:02 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The issues with the O-Line have been several years in the making, so it should have been dealt with in more than one off season. They waited until it was a complete disaster before starting to address it. Too late, always reactive and NEVER proactive. The one constant in football over the decades has been you need to win in the trenches. 

Paul Brown led teams generally had good lines on both sides. Mike Brown led teams not even close.

Gutcheck, Blowdine, Livings, Ogieboogie, Fisher just to name a few. Our line has had issues really since Richie Braham got hurt. We've had a couple decent years here and there but by and large we've struggled. And for the most part it's been because of one Paul Alexander.

(11-09-2018, 01:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes sir....and Philly replaced Chip Kelly.  We have wasted two cores thus far......and with the amount of times these guys (including the Palmer era), have made some brilliant fourth quarter comebacks....I have a hard time believing ALL OF THEM are choke artists.  I think we get out coached when the lights are the brightest, because face it, in those scenarios, you're facing the cream of the league.

Agreed, we flat out get horribly out coached !

(11-09-2018, 01:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, I absolutely agree.  They effed up to the point where it had to be fixed in one offseason, and it just wasn't feasible.  The removal of Piano Paul.....FINALLY....was a huge step in the right direction, now they just have to get the proper personnel.  I said at the beginning of the season that 9-7 is the ceiling for this team.....and considering the last two years, that isn't too bad.  They absolutely MUST be aggressive in the coming offseason to give our aging core of players a chance to finally have some success.

The one and only way this core of players has any prayer is for us to have an of season of epic proportions ! There's no way in hell you can fix this team in one draft. If you get two starting quality players ready that year in one draft you're flying. And we need like 4 or 5 top shelf guys. 

RT, RG, couple LBers, and TE and WR wouldn't hurt. I'm afraid AJ may start going downhill fairly quick and I'm not sure Ross is the answer ?

They've got to go out and get a couple top shelf FAs - period ! The bargin bin guys will do nothing for us.

And yes the Steelers are just better than us, in the trench's were it counts the most. Cam was under heavy duress the whole game and the Steelers Oline was controlling the other way.

(11-09-2018, 01:48 PM)Nately120 Wrote: By the time Ben retires we may be off the AJ Green era and into the John Ross era.  Hell, by the time Ben retires we may be headed towards a 3rd Marvin Lewis-led reboot.  Well, maybe not...point is we didn't successfully reboot this franchise in 2011 so we could compete in 2021.

As usual cannot disagree but the Pig was thinking about retiring last year, he might at the end of this one for all we know.

Been leaning Wyche and other's way anyways about next year being the year we might make a run by being able to fill the
rest of the holes on this team. Too much to fill in one Offseason.

(11-09-2018, 01:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And yes the Steelers are just better than us, in the trench's were it counts the most. Cam was under heavy duress the whole game and the Steelers Oline was controlling the other way.

Saw DeCastro hold about 10 times last night. Was there a call?

(11-09-2018, 01:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And the Steelers were playing in Super Bowls before Ben too. And appearing in Conference Championship Games.

From 1990-2002 before Ben got there, they made the playoffs 8 times. They played in the Conference Championship Game 4 times and played in 1 Super Bowl.

Plain and simple they have a better organization.

Yeah, they didn't win it all outside of Bradshaw and Ben, but waiting for a rival QB to retire so you can win in January puts in us the company of the Browns, the Lions (for about 30 years, waiting for Favre/Rodgers to retire), and the Bills and Dolphins waiting for Brady to retire.  That's not exactly the sort of company a decent team should be keeping.

(11-09-2018, 01:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As usual cannot disagree but the Pig was thinking about retiring last year, he might at the end of this one for all we know.

Been leaning Wyche and other's way anyways about next year being the year we might make a run by being able to fill the
rest of the holes on this team. Too much to fill in one Offseason.

I hear ya, but the guy seems to only bring up retirement after he loses a game and throws more than 2 INTs, and so on.  He's also not getting as banged up as he used to.  My last hope the Steelers would get rid of him died when I thought they might trade him to the Raiders following that whole sexual assault two-fer.

(11-09-2018, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Gutcheck, Blowdine, Livings, Ogieboogie, Fisher just to name a few. Our line has had issues really since Richie Braham got hurt. We've had a couple decent years here and there but by and large we've struggled. And for the most part it's been because of one Paul Alexander.


Agreed, we flat out get horribly out coached !


The one and only way this core of players has any prayer is for us to have an of season of epic proportions ! There's no way in hell you can fix this team in one draft. If you get two starting quality players ready that year in one draft you're flying. And we need like 4 or 5 top shelf guys. 

RT, RG, couple LBers, and TE and WR wouldn't hurt. I'm afraid AJ may start going downhill fairly quick and I'm not sure Ross is the answer ?

They've got to go out and get a couple top shelf FAs - period ! The bargin bin guys will do nothing for us.

Lots of great points!

The sad thing is over the past 3-4 years we've slowly, but steadily lost quality players in free agency. Sanu/Jones/Nelson/Joseph/Whitworth/Zeitler...I could go on and on.

And if you look at our drafts, the guys we drafted didn't replace the production we lost in most cases.

Lafell didn't replace Sanu and Jones. Williams didn't replace Nelson. Ced didn't replace Whitworth. Hopkins didn't replace Zeitler adequately.

Then you look at how the organization doesn't value certain positions like Center and Guard.

It's a bunch of things. The Steelers gave huge contracts to Pouncey and DeCastro. We let Zeitler walk and as a fan base we rationalize it being a good move because 'a Guard isn't worth it.'

If the HC managed the clock better, the Bengals had a good chance on beating the Steelers game 1. I still think the Bengals will split this season with the Steelers but the Steelers look like the strongest in the AFC North at this time.

(11-09-2018, 01:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As usual cannot disagree but the Pig was thinking about retiring last year, he might at the end of this one for all we know.

Been leaning Wyche and other's way anyways about next year being the year we might make a run by being able to fill the
rest of the holes on this team. Too much to fill in one Offseason.

You know...if we can win 9-10 games this year I look at it like a bonus as we're a really young team and if we can continue to upgrade the offensive line and LB spots...I think next year could be our year too.

(11-09-2018, 01:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Saw DeCastro hold about 10 times last night. Was there a call?

You see Mccaffrey get tackled by the facemask on that first TD, how the hell do they miss that call ? 

(11-09-2018, 02:01 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the HC managed the clock better, the Bengals had a good chance on beating the Steelers game 1.  I still think the Bengals will split this season with the Steelers but the Steelers look like the strongest in the AFC North at this time.

The NFL is a parity-driven league.  You don't usually play a team 16 times without some of them being close and being able to go either way.  The issue is that close or not, we aren't winning against them.  Does anyone remember how many close games the 0-16 Browns lost?  Maybe...but that's not the first thing that comes to mind.

(11-09-2018, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Gutcheck, Blowdine, Livings, Ogieboogie, Fisher just to name a few. Our line has had issues really since Richie Braham got hurt. We've had a couple decent years here and there but by and large we've struggled. And for the most part it's been because of one Paul Alexander.

That sounds like a dream team o line 

(11-09-2018, 02:01 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the HC managed the clock better, the Bengals had a good chance on beating the Steelers game 1.  I still think the Bengals will split this season with the Steelers but the Steelers look like the strongest in the AFC North at this time.

You know...it's possible...but not really because if you look at the stats...the Steelers almost outgained us 2:1

Steelers/Bengals


Passing Yards 369/213
Rushing Yards 112/62
TOP 34/25
Yards per Play 7.2/4.7

There is NOTHING in those statistics that say the Bengals should win that game. Generally the Steelers always run the ball when we play them and we can't.

Yet we always leave the game feeling like if we made 1 or 2 more plays we would have won.

(11-09-2018, 02:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The NFL is a parity-driven league.  You don't usually play a team 16 times without some of them being close and being able to go either way.  The issue is that close or not, we aren't winning against them.  Does anyone remember how many close games the 0-16 Browns lost?  Maybe...but that's not the first thing that comes to mind.

I think the reason they beat us is 3 things:

1: Their ownership values offensive line. (See money invested in their line.)
2: They can always run the ball against us and we can't run against them.
3: Their coaches and ownership don't accept mediocrity from the players.

(11-09-2018, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Gutcheck, Blowdine, Livings, Ogieboogie, Fisher just to name a few. Our line has had issues really since Richie Braham got hurt. We've had a couple decent years here and there but by and large we've struggled.

According to PFF from '07 through '15 the Bengals O-line was the best in the league at pass blocking.

(11-09-2018, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And for the most part it's been because of one Paul Alexander.

In 2009 our opening day O-line featured 3 starters (Roland, Livings, Cook) who were undrafted free agents with a combined 13 games played in the NFL (3 starts).  Luckily PA was able to coach up a player who had been cut by two teams in 2 years (Mathis) and a second year 4th round pick (Collins).

I am sure that is exactly what Paul asked for