(11-12-2018, 12:24 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Those are excellent points as usual but I just want to see a third down stop before the season ends.  I’m that desperate.

That was one heck of a premonition that you had.  Let's just hope that it works out.

(11-12-2018, 12:26 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It makes zero sense that our D is this bad. Ok our LBers aren't great but after that we've got some decent players, a couple great.

The coaching, the practice, the scheme, the playcalling, and most importantly the tone of this defense is all wrong. You can't completely take away a defense's aggressiveness playing soft the entire game and expect good results.

How ML can stand by and watch this is dumbfounding ?

This is what has blown mind all season. How can a HC just stand there and watch a coordinator suck so bad without stepping in? There was only a sliver of us winning yesterday, but damn we played defense with our balls tucked up inside.....

(11-12-2018, 12:51 AM)Benton Wrote: Marvin as a defensive coach was most likely a fluke. He was a product of having multiple Hof players propping him up. The only time Marvin's teams have consistently fielded good defenses is when Zimmer was here.

I'd trust Marvin with the defense about as well as if trust Marvin to lead this team to the promised Land.

Bingo, I have been saying that for awhile now. Merv did not make those players, those players made Marvin.

(11-12-2018, 01:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was one heck of a premonition that you had.  Let's just hope that it works out.

I swear I’ve never met Mike Brown! I did not put that idea in his head! However, if he read my OP early this morning....

......which I highly doubt....

.....and made Marvin DC because of it........

....it means he’s as desperate as I am to construct a shutdown defense.

(11-12-2018, 01:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Bingo, I have been saying that for awhile now. Merv did not make those players, those players made Marvin.

So are you saying coaching will not help our defense?

We need to just replace all of the players?

(11-12-2018, 01:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Bingo, I have been saying that for awhile now. Merv did not make those players, those players made Marvin.

Sure those players on that famous Ravens' defense were all very talented.  But they were also very disciplined and focused, almost like they were executing a specific plan that someone drew up to get the most of their talents.  If only the Bengals had someone capable of doing that...  

(11-12-2018, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So are you saying coaching will not help our defense?

We need to just replace all of the players?

What I am exactly saying is, if you think our LBs are going to come in next Sunday and play like they are fire, because of the great D guru Merv, then you are kidding yourself.  He had really good players in Baltimore, us not so much... Sorry I am not buying the Merv kool-aid...

(11-12-2018, 08:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: What I am exactly saying is, if you think our LBs are going to come in next Sunday and play like they are fire, because of the great D guru Merv, then you are kidding yourself.  He had really good players in Baltimore, us not so much... Sorry I am not buying the Merv kool-aid...

If you don't think that Marvin hasn't already been thinking about what he would do, if he were in charge of the defense for the past few games, then I don't know what to tell you.  It's not often that a HC decides to go hands on with a specific unit of the team.  I'm betting that he's had this planned, since before the bye.  He likely gave Austin his advice, and allowed him the opportunity to make the changes that he would.  We all saw the result.  Now, Austin is gone, Marvin is going to finally do what he's best at.  I project that the defense will be playing like their hair is on fire, only in an effort to save the season.

These next two divisional games are going to be epic. Mark my words.

(11-12-2018, 07:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure those players on that famous Ravens' defense were all very talented.  But they were also very disciplined and focused, almost like they were executing a specific plan that someone drew up to get the most of their talents.  If only the Bengals had someone capable of doing that...  

I don't care what anybody says, I don't believe this! Those D players did pretty much what they wanted all the time they were on the field. IF merv constructed that D I will eat my crow gladly! But I won't! I hate crow! They're to salty! 
Our D has NO linebackers playing that are any good! Period. They are the reason the D line can get pressure on the QB. They are the reason the corners can make plays on the balls and they are also the reason the safety's get to their spots! LBers are the heart and soul of a D! Who is coaching these idiots we have out their now? A LOSER!!! Coaching a bunch of LOSERS! Burfict when healthy cannot carry this teams D!!!

(11-12-2018, 03:26 AM)Ravage Wrote: You realize that would be a massive step backwards for Geno, right? Turning one of the best pass-rushing DT's in the last 20 or so years into a run-stuffer/block eater? Do you think our LB's would magically learn how to tackle if Geno put on 50lbs and stopped having a quick first step and neigh godlike bullrush? I think we both know our LB's would still look like they were coated in lube trying to tackle a greased pig. I get what you were going for, but that's just a strange comparison to make. Give me a choice between Goose and Geno and I'm taking Geno 100% of the time.

That isn't to knock Goose, he was a good player, but Geno is a borderline HOF DT (if he was almost anywhere else he'd be a lock already). Even in what might seem like a down year for Geno, through 9 games Geno has more sacks (6) than Goose ever did in a full season (5). And that kind of disruption from the interior is far more valuable than a run stopping fat guy, especially in what is now unquestionably a passing league.

This defense has a ton of issues at the moment, #97, however, isn't one of them.

Have to agree

(11-12-2018, 12:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know.  Marvin is so far removed from being a "hands on" coach, working directly with players and teaching scheme and technique, for so long that I'm not sure that would even work.  These days, he's more of an administrative figurehead.

I don't know, I remember Jordan Evans coming off the field last year after missing a tackle, and Marvin pulled him aside and asked him if what happened, and how to correct it. I think he is still perfectly capable of being a hands on coach.

If nothing else, this will be fun to watch....

I'm thinking our team would have a better chance to win without a HC and Marvin as DC (and only DC) than how it's structured now, lol.

(11-12-2018, 12:21 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know.  Marvin is so far removed from being a "hands on" coach, working directly with players and teaching scheme and technique, for so long that I'm not sure that would even work.  These days, he's more of an administrative figurehead.

But I hear he's great at teaching the technique long forgotten on this team: how to tackle

(11-13-2018, 09:14 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't know, I remember Jordan Evans coming off the field last year after missing a tackle, and Marvin pulled him aside and asked him if what happened, and how to correct it. I think he is still perfectly capable of being a hands on coach.

Since first making that post, I've reconsidered my thoughts on Marvin going hands-on with the defense.  He made his name by being a defensive coach, working directly with the players.  Perhaps it will be good for him to get back to his roots, and equally beneficial for the players as well.

(11-12-2018, 08:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: What I am exactly saying is, if you think our LBs are going to come in next Sunday and play like they are fire, because of the great D guru Merv, then you are kidding yourself.  He had really good players in Baltimore, us not so much... Sorry I am not buying the Merv kool-aid...

Right.  You are saying coaching doesn't matter.  All that matters are the players.

Or do you just apply that rule to Marvin and not other coaches?  That is, if the defense is good it is because of the players not the coach that taught them.

(11-12-2018, 12:18 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It’s Marvin Lewis.

His 2000 Ravens’ defense gave up an average of 9.4 points per game.  

That’s sick.  Let that number sink in for a minute.

Let him work with the Cincinnati defense for the rest of the season and let’s see what happens.  I’m not saying he’ll turn Vontaze Burfict into Ray Lewis or Jessie Bates into Ed Reed or Geno Atkins into Tony Siragusa but let’s get real:  Marvin needs to effectively function as the defensive coordinator until the Front Office finds someone like Mike Zimmer who pisses sulfuric acid and poops napalm.

Marvin Lewis also was a DC from a time that allowed far more on defense than it does now. I'm still worried that Lewis' approach, philosophy, scheme, etc would be outdated for today's game. We'll see I guess.

(11-13-2018, 12:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Marvin Lewis also was a DC from a time that allowed far more on defense than it does now. I'm still worried that Lewis' approach, philosophy, scheme, etc would be outdated for today's game. We'll see I guess.

Mikey is even more outdated than ML, so in his eyes ML is on the cutting edge. 

(11-13-2018, 12:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Marvin Lewis also was a DC from a time that allowed far more on defense than it does now. I'm still worried that Lewis' approach, philosophy, scheme, etc would be outdated for today's game. We'll see I guess.

I think this is one of the bigger reasons why we keep missing on LBers. We're not building the anti three yards in a cloud of dust defense anymore and Marvin still is.

We have never actually drafted a LB with solid 'instincts' - drafted pluggers and speedy guys but none that actually have great LB instincts.

Edit - Thurman had it, but was obviously troubled.