(09-15-2015, 10:46 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Is this dirty? I thnk everyone agrees it is. But I actually don't mind it at all. Had he been suspended, i am fine with that also. I like the "chip on their shoulder" look they played with. I hope they can tone it down a bit with the penalties, but it was season opener and I am sure they wanted to come out fast and hard. Keep same intensity and don't rip someones helmet off to smash their head on it and we should be good to go.

Sounds like something VERY easy to correct.

Except some people think that's fine clean football. 

(09-15-2015, 11:00 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: This is why Cooper knows that Jones shouldn't be suspended:

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2015/9/15/9328553/watch-amari-cooper-blatantly-punch-adam-jones-in-the-throat

https://vine.co/v/eF2FdO1P50m

Everybody bashing Jones, Cooper took a jab at his throat, whereas Jones just took off his helmet and lightly pushed it in that direction, so lightly that Cooper didn't even know his head had hit the helmet, so which is worse?

The retaliation is always worse. 

(09-15-2015, 11:25 AM)Okeana Wrote: You're assuming intent by watching a video.  The neck could have been flexed when pushed recoiled before contact was made. Injury was not sustained AT ALL and the other people didn't even feel his head connect to a helmet.  Can you analyze frame data to prove contact was made or not an optical illusion.

When he removed the helmet maybe he didn't realize when pushing the head that it had rolled back underneath the head.  In that split second maybe he pushed the head looking into his eyes and yelled " **** YOU " without realizing that a helmet was even there.

Would you hold someone in jail over night if someone told you that during a fight a person pushed someones head above an object laying on the ground, but no injury was sustained, the victim claimed no grievance, and the fight was a result of self defense in an adrenaline filled situation.

This all boils down to you not getting the justice you feel he deserves because its your opinion.  So you're going to stamp your feet and throw a temper tantrum.  Whats worse is that our Media doesn't just report facts, but states opinions meant to drive views by giving a story longevity.   So you feel justified in your stance.  

This means jack in any case in the history of ever. Look at JC's post for reference.



Self Defense? No, the throat shove happened, they got scrappy, then he threw him to the ground and did the rest. Cooper was done. He instigated it but he didn't continue it, Jones clearly did. If anyone was in self defense it was Cooper on the ground.


I am already over the lack of suspension, my day hasn't been ruined, I'm not throwing a tantrum. I disagree with it and moved on, apparently I just can't discuss it from an opposite viewpoint without being labeled mad and frustrated for some reason.

I GUARANTEE if that's Aldon Smith slamming Jeremy Hill's head against his own helmet, that's not getting a "he just wanted to make a point" reaction, "you know, he could've went harder, he didn't want to inflict pain in a frustrating situation".

Give me a break with that.

(09-15-2015, 01:42 PM)Stormborn Wrote: This means jack in any case in the history of ever. Look at JC's post for reference.



Self Defense? No, the throat shove happened, they got scrappy, then he threw him to the ground and did the rest. Cooper was done. He instigated it but he didn't continue it, Jones clearly did. If anyone was in self defense it was Cooper on the ground.


I am already over the lack of suspension, my day hasn't been ruined, I'm not throwing a tantrum. I disagree with it and moved on, apparently I just can't discuss it from an opposite viewpoint without being labeled mad and frustrated for some reason.

I GUARANTEE if that's Aldon Smith slamming Jeremy Hill's head against his own helmet, that's not getting a "he just wanted to make a point" reaction, "you know, he could've went harder, he didn't want to inflict pain in a frustrating situation".

Give me a break with that.

You're a ***** because you don't support it! At least that's what I've been told.
We shouldn't want our football players living past 55 without dementia, CTE and other major health issues. 

(09-15-2015, 02:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You're a ***** because you don't support it! At least that's what I've been told.
We shouldn't want our football players living past 55 without dementia, CTE and other major health issues. 

I don't understand this statement.  Are you trying to be inflammatory because you feel that people accepting physicality in a physical sport and that is somehow barbaric ?  I really don't understand how brain trauma comes into play with this incident.

(09-15-2015, 02:56 PM)Okeana Wrote: I don't understand this statement.  Are you trying to be inflammatory because you feel that people accepting physicality in a physical sport and that is somehow barbaric ?  I really don't understand how brain trauma comes into play with this incident.

Back away Okeana, he's running out of room to defend himself.  You don'd want to be party to the low brow shit he starts pulling real soon.  

That's what happens when you pull the "Its like shooting someone and missing" card so early in the discussion.  

(09-15-2015, 03:05 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Back away Okeana, he's running out of room to defend himself.  You don'd want to be party to the low brow shit he starts pulling real soon.  

That's what happens when you pull the "Its like shooting someone and missing" card so early in the discussion.  

(09-15-2015, 01:42 PM)Stormborn Wrote: This means jack in any case in the history of ever. Look at JC's post for reference.



Self Defense? No, the throat shove happened, they got scrappy, then he threw him to the ground and did the rest. Cooper was done. He instigated it but he didn't continue it, Jones clearly did. If anyone was in self defense it was Cooper on the ground.


I am already over the lack of suspension, my day hasn't been ruined, I'm not throwing a tantrum. I disagree with it and moved on, apparently I just can't discuss it from an opposite viewpoint without being labeled mad and frustrated for some reason.

I GUARANTEE if that's Aldon Smith slamming Jeremy Hill's head against his own helmet, that's not getting a "he just wanted to make a point" reaction, "you know, he could've went harder, he didn't want to inflict pain in a frustrating situation".

Give me a break with that.

1st, Hill wouldn't do that.

2nd, of course the retaliation is always going to be worse!  If someone punches you in the face, you don't retaliate by tickling them!  That's why it's a retaliation!  

I, for one, am very happy because it sends a message that says "don't **** with us.......  if you hit us, we'll hit you ten times harder!"

Our team has needed that attitude for the LONGEST time.

Like I've been saying, Cooper didn't even know his head had hit the helmet, so it wasn't that bad, but it's the principle of the matter.

(09-15-2015, 03:39 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: 1st, Hill wouldn't do that.

2nd, of course the retaliation is always going to be worse!  If someone punches you in the face, you don't retaliate by tickling them!  That's why it's a retaliation!  

I, for one, am very happy because it sends a message that says "don't **** with us.......  if you hit us, we'll hit you ten times harder!"

Our team has needed that attitude for the LONGEST time.

Like I've been saying, Cooper didn't even know his head had hit the helmet, so it wasn't that bad, but it's the principle of the matter.

The scenario was Hill getting his head smashed by Smith, not the other way around.

The rest, I'll just lump it all together with the rest of the boards mindset:

"If it ain't our team getting their heads slammed into their own helmet and risk causing blunt head trauma, it's a great mentality to have! We would absolutely not being saying any different if we were the victim here."

Call it a moral victory, whatever, you all have officially disgusted me out of this discussion for eternity. 

(09-15-2015, 02:56 PM)Okeana Wrote: I don't understand this statement.  Are you trying to be inflammatory because you feel that people accepting physicality in a physical sport and that is somehow barbaric ?  I really don't understand how brain trauma comes into play with this incident.

.....taking a guys helmet off and hitting him downward into it (to remove penis parts issues with smash/slam/shove) isn't related to potential brain trauma?


Besides it's mostly aimed at penis parts and his decision that not approving of Jones' unacceptable behavior means you are soft and don't belong watching football. 

(09-15-2015, 04:36 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Call it a moral victory, whatever, you all have officially disgusted me out of this discussion for eternity. 

Get the sand out of your vagina and man up. Guy punches you in the throat....especially a rookie...you teach him a lesson. You know Jones wasn't trying to slam his head on the helmet in particular....just push his head to the ground. The helmet just got in the way since it didnt roll away. You can see Jones hold up on a second push, then the pile comes in. I say its about time the Bengals were on the giving end of some of this shit. Theyve certainly been on the receiving end enough times.

(09-15-2015, 09:02 AM)JADefense Wrote: No, looking at the incident and the entire context  I don't.  

If Adam had "slammed" his head against the helmet several times with intent to hurt then I would consider it violent.  Adam pushed Cooper's head down once, the helmet happened to be in the way.  Anybody stating that he "slammed" his head into the helmet is simply wrong.

Do I condone the action, no.  Do I understand a heat-of-the moment reaction, I sure do.  Adam will get fined and the players will move on.  Unfortunately, some of the fans on this board will keep harping about it until the end of time.

Football is a violent sport.  This incident, while outside the rules of play, was not violent.

Yep Yep and Yep.

(09-15-2015, 09:02 AM)JADefense Wrote: No, looking at the incident and the entire context  I don't.  

If Adam had "slammed" his head against the helmet several times with intent to hurt then I would consider it violent.  Adam pushed Cooper's head down once, the helmet happened to be in the way.  Anybody stating that he "slammed" his head into the helmet is simply wrong.

Do I condone the action, no.  Do I understand a heat-of-the moment reaction, I sure do.  Adam will get fined and the players will move on.  Unfortunately, some of the fans on this board will keep harping about it until the end of time.

Football is a violent sport.  This incident, while outside the rules of play, was not violent.

No matter how you shake it out and justify it, Pacman is a violent dude and this was a violent act.  Just because it's in the heat of the moment doesn't mean that it isn't violent.  When you intentionally try to injure someone, there is a violence problem.  A violent sport does not have to include violent acts in downtime.

Some fans will keep harping on it, no doubt.  This is because Pacman is a piece of shit human being.  Always has been, always will be.  He has proved over and over and over again that he just cannot change his ways.

(09-15-2015, 07:30 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: No matter how you shake it out and justify it, Pacman is a violent dude and this was a violent act.  Just because it's in the heat of the moment doesn't mean that it isn't violent.  When you intentionally try to injure someone, there is a violence problem.  A violent sport does not have to include violent acts in downtime.

Some fans will keep harping on it, no doubt.  This is because Pacman is a piece of shit human being.  Always has been, always will be.  He has proved over and over and over again that he just cannot change his ways.

Every player in the NFL is a violent dude, as you so eloquently refer to Adam.  In the scope of NFL "violence", this was a love tap.

(09-15-2015, 07:30 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: No matter how you shake it out and justify it, Pacman is a violent dude and this was a violent act.  Just because it's in the heat of the moment doesn't mean that it isn't violent.  When you intentionally try to injure someone, there is a violence problem.  A violent sport does not have to include violent acts in downtime.

Some fans will keep harping on it, no doubt.  This is because Pacman is a piece of shit human being.  Always has been, always will be.  He has proved over and over and over again that he just cannot change his ways.

This is crux of our divergent interpretation.  I did not see it as Jones trying to injure Cooper.  He got on top of him and intimidated, possibly humiliated the man, but he wasn't attempting to injure him.  If he wanted to do that, he would have.

Pacman may very well be a piece of shit human, but he wasn't trying to hurt Cooper and he shouldnt be suspended for it.

Adam Jones: "I can't promise it won't happen again. I'm an emotional player."

OK, I'm done. What the heck is he thinking???

(09-16-2015, 12:24 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: This is crux of our divergent interpretation.  I did not see it as Jones trying to injure Cooper.  He got on top of him and intimidated, possibly humiliated the man, but he wasn't attempting to injure him.  If he wanted to do that, he would have.

Pacman may very well be a piece of shit human, but he wasn't trying to hurt Cooper and he shouldnt be suspended for it.

I don't want him to be suspended for it, and don't think he should be either, since it's his first on-field incident in his decade long career.  I just don't understand why a lot of guys are defending his actions.

(09-16-2015, 02:03 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I don't want him to be suspended for it, and don't think he should be either, since it's his first on-field incident in his decade long career.  I just don't understand why a lot of guys are defending his actions.

Got it.  Agree to disagree.  

(09-15-2015, 12:58 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The retaliation is always worse. 

The retaliation is usually worse because it sends a message not to mess around.

If you do something wrong, and there's moderate retaliation, what message does that send?

In this instance, however, I would argue that the retaliation was not worse since Cooper didn't even know his head had hit the helmet.

(09-15-2015, 07:30 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: No matter how you shake it out and justify it, Pacman is a violent dude and this was a violent act.  Just because it's in the heat of the moment doesn't mean that it isn't violent.  When you intentionally try to injure someone, there is a violence problem.  A violent sport does not have to include violent acts in downtime.

Some fans will keep harping on it, no doubt.  This is because Pacman is a piece of shit human being.  Always has been, always will be.  He has proved over and over and over again that he just cannot change his ways.

its a violent sport they arent out there hugging each other and tossing a balloon around. they are paid to hurt each other... thats why they get the big bucks.

(09-16-2015, 02:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The retaliation is usually worse because it sends a message not to mess around.

If you do something wrong, and there's moderate retaliation, what message does that send?

In this instance, however, I would argue that the retaliation was not worse since Cooper didn't even know his head had hit the helmet.

Using end result to determine things is silly.
Pacman didn't have his trachea crushed so what Cooper did was "less-worse"
See how stupid that is?

The bottom line is this: Pacman took off the other players helmet. He forced said players down. It made contact with that helmet. How hard or injuries (lack thereof) are irrelevant. 
The intent behind Jones' attack was worse.