Doesnt matter who, when, or where we are playing. Billings is always on the ground. What is he looking for down there? Gotta be something good to be face first in the ground so much.

Boy was i hype when we got him as a steal in the draft. Boy was i wrong.

(12-03-2018, 02:07 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Doesnt matter who, when, or where we are playing. Billings is always on the ground. What is he looking for down there? Gotta be something good to be face first in the ground so much.

Boy was i hype when we got him as a steal in the draft. Boy was i wrong.

I think he is looking for the pieces of Eifert to put him back together.

For a 4th round pick, he's been a good pick and has done his job fairly well. He's an average starting NT. He eats up space. It's the LBs behind him not tackling that makes what he does pointless

Could Billings fat ass be disrupting Geno and the entire line?

(12-03-2018, 02:07 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Doesnt matter who, when, or where we are playing. Billings is always on the ground. What is he looking for down there? Gotta be something good to be face first in the ground so much.

Boy was i hype when we got him as a steal in the draft. Boy was i wrong.

Smurfs.....

He really is an average to above average NT, there are a lot of things to complain about on the defense but I'm not sure he is in the top 5.

What's he looking for? Hopefully, his balls. He's going to need them, in order to become the run stuffer that we were hoping for.

(12-03-2018, 09:26 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What's he looking for?  Hopefully, his balls.  He's going to need them, in order to become the run stuffer that we were hoping for.

I decided to go double check what I believed Billings was based on what I have seen and PFF has him rated as an above average player. The issue really is everyone has a run fit in the running game and Billings can do his job which leave the lanes to either side of him open and the LB's or Safeties don't fill allowing a big run. While people may want him to make a great play and play beyond his gap, which he flashes occasionally, he plays his job well most the time. Everyone has bad plays but his really aren't as common as this thread would have people believe. 

(12-03-2018, 09:32 AM)Au165 Wrote: I decided to go double check what I believed Billings was based on what I have seen and PFF has him rated as an above average player. The issue really is everyone has a run fit in the running game and Billings can do his job which leave the lanes to either side of him open and the LB's or Safeties don't fill allowing a big run. While people may want him to make a great play and play beyond his gap, which he flashes occasionally, he plays his job well most the time. Everyone has bad plays but his really aren't as common as this thread would have people believe. 

Are you not going to share the value they assigned to him?  What is his rank among all qualifying defensive tackles?  

You're trying to tell us that he's not bad.  The OP made note of how often he's seen face flat on the ground, which I have noticed quite often myself.  You claim that he's doing his job, and teams are just running through the lanes on either side of him.  I'm going to assert that he's not doing his job, because if they are running just to the left or right of his massive body, he should be coming off that block and making plays.  Furthermore, a good NFL NT should command the attention of two blockers, leaving the MLB clean to fill the hole.  Obviously, those things aren't happening on any sort of regular basis.

So, is your stat service giving you bad info, or do you just want to believe in Billings to the point that you won't acknowledge his deficiencies?

(12-03-2018, 06:01 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Smurfs.....

I too wanted him and I will admit he is a big time bust.Too fat and too slow.There is a big time reason all the other teams passed on this guy.Just because you ball out in college does not make you nfl caliber.I was so wrong on this guy.How long is it going to take for Joe Mixon to want out of here??? Marvin ruins good players,but he is not walking away from all the milliions he is making.The guy is filthy rich after 16 years and he could care less about all you poor fans than scrape to get enough bucks to go watch this crap.QUIT GOING TO GAMES.ITS A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.

(12-03-2018, 05:41 AM)Brimey Wrote: For a 4th round pick, he's been a good pick and has done his job fairly well. He's an average starting NT. He eats up space. It's the LBs behind him not tackling that makes what he does pointless

Yep. People on this board expect DT's to be like Geno and put up 10-12 sacks a year which isn't realistic.

Billings job is to eat space and let the LB's make plays and to occupy blockers and to make an occasional tackle.

He grades out at 70.0 on PFF or as the #54 DI. He's about an Average DI.

IF our LB's all graded out at 70...we'd be so much better.

(12-03-2018, 10:17 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you not going to share the value they assigned to him?  What is his rank among all qualifying defensive tackles?  

You're trying to tell us that he's not bad.  The OP made note of how often he's seen face flat on the ground, which I have noticed quite often myself.  You claim that he's doing his job, and teams are just running through the lanes on either side of him.  I'm going to assert that he's not doing his job, because if they are running just to the left or right of his massive body, he should be coming off that block and making plays.  Furthermore, a good NFL NT should command the attention of two blockers, leaving the MLB clean to fill the hole.  Obviously, those things aren't happening on any sort of regular basis.

So, is your stat service giving you bad info, or do you just want to believe in Billings to the point that you won't acknowledge his deficiencies?

He rates out at 70...or as the #54 DI.

For context:

Tupou - 73.0.

Washington - 71.7.

Niles Scott - 73.0.

Glasgow in the couple games he played before injury rated 84.1. He was a huge loss that people don't talk about.

Hubbard who they play inside sometimes rates at 55.0.

Notice a pattern? They all rate low 70's.

Well, if he's smart, he's looking for a way out of here.

Can't even imagine what it must feel like to walk out there on Sundays knowing you have no chance.

(12-03-2018, 09:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: He really is an average to above average NT, there are a lot of things to complain about on the defense but I'm not sure he is in the top 5.

Exactly. You have to look at all the LBs, RDE, and CB2 before you start pointing at NT.


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Everybody was hoping for Geno 2.0 with Billings due to his draft day slide. Reality is Billings is an average starter at his position, and people should be happy with that kind of production from a 4th rounder. Like others have said, get better linebackers (weakest unit on this team) and Billings' value will be easier to recognize.

I don’t know anymore I said the same thing about Billings and a lot of people said he’s playing good according to PFF. Seems like everyone on defense is playing good according to some people and PFF. Geno and Dunlap are still playing great. Billings is an above average NT. The denfense was bad because Dennard and Vigil were hurt ! There both back now. Bates is rated great on PPF. Shawn Williams plays great every week and is under appreciated. William Jackson is giving up no yards and so on. You would think we have an all star team playing defense. I have no idea how ppf works but when I watch the real games with my eyes I see a ton of holes on defense but idk maybe I’m crazy and PPF is right.

(12-03-2018, 11:08 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He rates out at 70...or as the #54 DI.

For context:

Tupou - 73.0.

Washington - 71.7.

Niles Scott - 73.0.

Glasgow in the couple games he played before injury rated 84.1. He was a huge loss that people don't talk about.

Hubbard who they play inside sometimes rates at 55.0.

Notice a pattern? They all rate low 70's.

What that tells me, is that DTs have to be decent players, in order to even see the field.  His ranking of #54 is the most telling.  Since about half the NFL employs a 3-4 defense, the list of qualifying starters can't be much more than 60 or so.  In other words, compared to other starting DT/NTs around the league, he ranks poorly.  That is what my eyes have been telling me for two years now.

(12-03-2018, 12:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What that tells me, is that DTs have to be decent players, in order to even see the field.  His ranking of #54 is the most telling.  Since about half the NFL employs a 3-4 defense, the list of qualifying starters can't be much more than 60 or so.  In other words, compared to other starting DT/NTs around the league, he ranks poorly.  That is what my eyes have been telling me for two years now.

THE DI PFF ratings seem to be inflated, where RB rankings are lower.

I think DI is a simplier position and harder to screw things up too bad at. Whereas RB, you have to do a lot of stuff there that you could mess up, like pass protection. For instance, if a RB gives up a sack...that's a big thing. Fans might not even notice it, if the guy carries the ball good. But that sack was a big thing in the game.

(12-03-2018, 10:17 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you not going to share the value they assigned to him?  What is his rank among all qualifying defensive tackles?  

You're trying to tell us that he's not bad.  The OP made note of how often he's seen face flat on the ground, which I have noticed quite often myself.  You claim that he's doing his job, and teams are just running through the lanes on either side of him.  I'm going to assert that he's not doing his job, because if they are running just to the left or right of his massive body, he should be coming off that block and making plays.  Furthermore, a good NFL NT should command the attention of two blockers, leaving the MLB clean to fill the hole.  Obviously, those things aren't happening on any sort of regular basis.

So, is your stat service giving you bad info, or do you just want to believe in Billings to the point that you won't acknowledge his deficiencies?

There are gaps that are supposed to be filled by the line and there are gaps that are supposed to be filled by the linebackers and secondary. Based on the shell those can actually change play to play as well as with offensive alignment. Just because they run left or right of him does not mean it was his responsibility as strange as that sounds to most. 

As I said he is an average to above average DT. 

I like the lineup they mostly used against the Broncos. Hubbard Geno Billings Dunlap. They used Willis inside as a pass rusher and Michael Johnson played mostly LDE spelling Dunlap.