(12-04-2018, 01:49 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Have to agree. After '09-'10, he proved to be an extremely mediocre head coach. I would rather not replace one mediocre coach with another.

While I mostly agree, I'm just so very ready to get ML out the door I'd damn near put my local HS coach in charge.

I'm so very, very, done with the Merv show 

(12-04-2018, 01:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Almost any change from him right now would help this team, 

No it would not.

Marvin has a winning record against other NFL coaches while being handicapped by the worst owner in the league.  To suggest that absolutely anyone would be better than him is ridiculous.

I see this same argument made about players all the time, and it makes no sense.  Just because one of our coaches o players is bad that does not mean he is the absolute worst on the planet.

(12-04-2018, 02:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: While I mostly agree, I'm just so very ready to get ML out the door I'd damn near put my local HS coach in charge.

This is a decision based on emotion instead of logic.

(12-04-2018, 01:49 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Have to agree. After '09-'10, he proved to be an extremely mediocre head coach. I would rather not replace one mediocre coach with another.

Yep, he's pretty much ML but not as good. Very old-school, run first, play great D, type stuff. But I do admit I would love some of the antics he does. I believe he made the entire team wear wristbands that said "Yes sir" after getting so many penalties. 

(12-04-2018, 01:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I will take a conference championship appearance.

All you need to do is give Ryan 14 Pro Bowl players including 6 All Pros.

(12-04-2018, 02:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, Hue is the one guy i wouldn't like.

We sure are picky lol

I mentioned in another thread awhile back...I think guys like Dave Toub, Dan Campbell and Matt LaFleur could all be good fits here for different reasons.

(12-03-2018, 09:03 PM)McC Wrote: Shockingly, you ignored  what I said.

Shockingly I had no idea how to compare 6 seasons to two-and-a-half.

How do you suggest I do that?

(12-04-2018, 02:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: While I mostly agree, I'm just so very ready to get ML out the door I'd damn near put my local HS coach in charge.

I'm so very, very, done with the Merv show 

Same here brother.  :andy:

(12-03-2018, 09:09 PM)McC Wrote: Weird.  I see in one thread where you say Marvin needs to go and no one else would hire him.  Then I go to another and there you are, screaming yourself blue in the face defending Marvin.  Which is it?

I don't understand your question.

Why do you think it is impossible for me to think BOTH that Marvin needs to go and Rex Ryan stinks?

Where is the contradiction that puzzles you so?

Pro bowls have zero value. So many players pass that by the time you get to the guy on the field you’ve had 5 other players that already passed.

(12-03-2018, 09:20 PM)motoarch Wrote: It doesn’t matter because he’s a troll that just wants to argue in the face of truth and logic.

The face of truth and logic shows that Rex Ryan stinks as a coach.

Besides it is funny the you call me a "troll" when I am pretty much the only one around here who is consistent.  The people who just want to argue and cry change there position every week to fit the argument.  

During the offseason you squeal about how Mike Brown's free agency policy hurts our chance to win, but when you want to rip Marvin then suddenly Mike Brown's free agency policy is no problem at all.

Until the first Ravens game this year Marvin was stupid because he was too conservative at the end of the half.  Then after the first Ravens game Marvin was stupid because he was aggressive at the end of the half.

You guys are the "trolls".  I am the one who is consistent.

I have said repeatedly that Marvin Lewis needs to go.  Yet you trolls are not happy unless Marvin is labeled the worst coach in history.

(12-03-2018, 09:20 PM)motoarch Wrote: It doesn’t matter because he’s a troll that just wants to argue in the face of truth and logic.

(12-04-2018, 02:26 PM)motoarch Wrote: Pro bowls have zero value.

Typical troll reply.

You accuse me of ignoring truth and logic, yet when I provide solid facts you claim they have "zero value".

Only a troll would say there is "zero" difference between Alex Redmond and a Pro Bowl player.

What about all the All Pro's on that Jets roster?  Where is your proof that they were all "trash"?

(12-03-2018, 09:20 PM)motoarch Wrote: It doesn’t matter because he’s a troll that just wants to argue in the face of truth and logic.

(12-04-2018, 02:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You guys are the "trolls".  I am the one who is consistent.

I have said repeatedly that Marvin Lewis needs to go.  Yet you trolls are not happy unless Marvin is labeled the worst coach in history.

Enough with the troll comments. Make your points and arguments without the insults.

At least we can all agree Marvin has to go.

(12-04-2018, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Typical troll reply.

You accuse me of ignoring truth and logic, yet when I provide solid facts you claim they have "zero value".

Only a troll would say there is "zero" difference between Alex Redmond and a Pro Bowl player.

What about all the All Pro's on that Jets roster?  Where is your proof that they were all "trash"?

1. You only quoted a part of what I said so you could argue it out of context. This is how you view ‘facts’; conviently parsed stats and information that ignore context on any level.

2. Was alex Redmond on the field during those games? See point 1.

(12-04-2018, 04:23 PM)motoarch Wrote: 1.  You only quoted a part of what I said so you could argue it out of context.  This is how you view ‘facts’; conviently parsed stats and information that ignore context on any level.

2.  Was alex Redmond on the field during those games?  See point 1.

You know what is funny.  When people claim they were taken out of context but never explain how the context changed the meaning of anything they said.

The facts are that the '09 Jets team was loaded with Pro Bowl and All Pro players.  They had much more talent than the Bengals did that year.  And even though Rex Ryan won some playoff games with them in '09 and '10 he never had another winning season in 6 years as a head coach.

Marvin may need to go, but Rex Ryan would not be an upgrade in any way.

(12-04-2018, 06:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You know what is funny.  When people claim they were taken out of context but never explain how the context changed the meaning of anything they said.

The facts are that the '09 Jets team was loaded with Pro Bowl and All Pro players.  They had much more talent than the Bengals did that year.  And even though Rex Ryan won some playoff games with them in '09 and '10 he never had another winning season in 6 years as a head coach.

Marvin may need to go, but Rex Ryan would not be an upgrade in any way.

Why would I need to repete myself. You can see the context. Go back and read it.

There’s no reason to point by point address all the accolades of the players on him team cause the only thing relevant is how they preformed that season. I don’t care if player x has 1000 yard season under his belt. Did he do it that year? Does a 1000 yards once in a career even really prove anything even if it was that season? What about multiple pro bowls? Does anyone care that a guy 5,6 or 7th in line made a probowl because everyone in front of him dropped out or was voted in because of a past reputation and name recognition?

Context matters.

That jets team was trash and the bengals team was flat out better and got their asses handed to them. You know it I know it and everyone on here knows it. You argue for the sake of it becaise you love the tention I guess. I could say the sky is blue and you find a way to argue just because. I’m going to go back to ignoring you as best I can because it seems your main goal is to get a rise out of others and I let you win that game over and over.

A few points to consider:

1) Lewis is the first HC hire for PB Jr., who has won here. It allowed him to buy back the last 30% share and take sole control. So that loyalty is hard to break.

2) Lewis is no longer a HC in the sense that we are discussing here. He is not a game planner/caller, like Reid, Payton, Pederson, Reich, McVay (who is actually a glorified OC). Lewis is a Team/Personnel Manager. And that has its place in NFL too.

3) Lewis succeeds when he has capable OC and DC (Gruden, Zimmer, Jackson).

So, if you fire Lewis, who do you bring in as HC, and more importantly, why?

If it is for more offense, then who and why? We already run a WC and were the first Team to run an innovative RPO regularly. Majority of Teams run a version of WC. So what is the difference? If you bring in Chip Kelley, what does he bring beyond his mesh concept?

If it is for more defense, who do you bring in and why? The rules changes and WC/RPO wrinkles requires defenses to adapt. Zones are no longer effective because RPOs overload on one side and overwhelm the zone. No one has shown to be able to counter them. Belichek and Phillips could not stop Reid, Phillips Man couldn't counter Payton's 21 (Kamara on a LB and TE running a stick).

If you use Marinelli as an example of who can stop Payton, remember that Dallas has familiarity with Payton's schemes from his days in Dallas. Marinelli is no genius.

We have two advanced offensive minds on our staff, and there is no viable defensive mind out there that guarantees success against the current schemes.

So again, if Lewis is fired, who do you suggest as replacement. And why?     

(12-04-2018, 07:02 PM)motoarch Wrote:   What about multiple pro bowls?  Does anyone care that a guy 5,6 or 7th in line made a probowl because everyone in front of him dropped out or was voted in because of a past reputation and name recognition?

No matter how you try to spin it Pro Bowl players are better than players that don't go to the Pro Bowl.  It is absurd to argue that players like Denis Roland who never make the Pro Bowl are just as good as guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson. 


And All Pro players are usually better than players that are not All Pro.  

And a guy who has a few 1000 rushing seasons is usually better than the guy who does not.

(12-04-2018, 07:02 PM)motoarch Wrote: That jets team was trash and the bengals team was flat out better and got their asses handed to them.  You know it I know it and everyone on here knows it.  You argue for the sake of it becaise you love the tention I guess. 

Actually I have not heard one person here claim that a team with the #1 defense in the entire league and the #1 rushing offense is "trash".  

You post absolutely nothing to support your opinion except your opinion.  Then you get offended when someone dares to question you so you turn to personal insults.