This offseason the front office spent big money on Atkins and Dunlap. Total 2018 salary is 28 million. With 14 sacks between them it comes to 2 million /sack thru 12 games. While seven sacks isn't really that bad the lack of push by the d-line has left the back seven exposed. Were the Bengals right to gamble on these aging linemen. They played great last year putting pressure constantly on opposing offenses but have disappeared in most game this year. The cost goes down as the contract ages but so do these players.

EVERY SINGLE FAN was happy when we signed these guys.

What is the point of threads like this? If we had not re-signed both of these guys the fans would have been in mutiny.

The increase in pay was not necessarily to go to that "next" level, it was to pay the individual(s) appropriately for how they've been performing. Previously, they were essentially getting underpaid for how well they had performed.

Honestly, I think they've done a pretty good job this season after getting their new contracts.

Heck. I'm still waiting for the first BILLION dollar player and to hear fans say, BUT HE'S WORTH IT !
He might be a pitcher and as far as I'm concerned damned well better be a THOUSAND TIMES better than CatFish Hunter..with a .00000000000000000000000001 era..and pitch till he's 90..

I know some people are really down on the d-line but Atkins and Dunlap are right around their career averages for sacks and tackles for losses.

So far Geno has 7 sacks, 9 tfl and 16 QB hits this year. Dunlap has 7 sacks, 7 tfl and 15 qb hits. Bengals still have 4 games to go. But lets look at their last three years just to compare.

Geno: Dunlap:
2015 - 11.0 sacks, 17 tfl, 21 qb hits 13.5 sacks, 16 tfl, 34 qb hits
2016 - 9.0 sacks, 13 tfl, 26 qb hits 8.0 sacks, 7 tfl, 23 qb hits
2017 - 9.0 sacks, 10 tfl, 20 qb hits 7.5 sacks, 12 tfl, 24 qb hits

Geno still ranks 3rd at his position in total pressures with 53. He's still very very good. Dunlap has always been consistent and above average but never the super star people make him out to be. He's only had 1 season with double digit sacks. Losing Carl Lawson hurt a lot more than people realize. Teams need at least 3 good pass rushers and the bengals only have two.

Geno, Dunlap, and the DL in general have been a major disappointment for me this season. Obviously there’s worse position groups like OL and LB, but the DL was supposed to be the strength of the team. They really haven’t been all that good. Geno racked up all those sacks early in the season (only 1 in the last 7 games), and has just not been the impact player we needed him to be. Same goes for Dunlap. I know losing Lawson hurt, but these guys have been MIA for the most part after getting off to hot starts. The fact that every single team gashes us in the run game has to be partially put on them as well.

If their linebackers could cover short routes for more than 0.005 seconds, the defensive line would have a little more time to get to the QB.

(12-05-2018, 11:01 AM)MentalRage Wrote: I know some people are really down on the d-line but Atkins and Dunlap are right around their career averages for sacks and tackles for losses.

So far Geno has 7 sacks, 9 tfl and 16 QB hits this year. Dunlap has 7 sacks, 7 tfl and 15 qb hits. Bengals still have 4 games to go. But lets look at their last three years just to compare.

Geno:                                                                 Dunlap:
2015 - 11.0 sacks, 17 tfl, 21 qb hits                         13.5 sacks, 16 tfl, 34 qb hits
2016 - 9.0 sacks, 13 tfl, 26 qb hits                           8.0 sacks, 7 tfl, 23 qb hits
2017 - 9.0 sacks, 10 tfl,  20 qb hits                          7.5 sacks, 12 tfl, 24 qb hits

Geno still ranks 3rd at his position in total pressures with 53. He's still very very good. Dunlap has always been consistent and above average but never the super star people make him out to be. He's only had 1 season with double digit sacks. Losing Carl Lawson hurt a lot more than people realize. Teams need at least 3 good pass rushers and the bengals only have two.

As did losing Glasgow ! Billings is average at best and then you throw in MJ who should not even be playing DE at all and they never should have brought back. Then you add in the worst LBing group in NFL history that couldn't cover a fire hydrant and it's no wonder Geno and Carlos aren't getting more pressure.

Hubbard is still a developing rookie and doesn't get a lot of playing time so we can run MJ out there to do absolutely nothing. There's nothing wrong with Geno and Carlos, the problem is the same as it has been for the last decade plus.

The decisions made by the coaching staff.

Much like the offense, opponents have solved the defense. Happened to both around week 4.

I think there’s talent on this team. Enough to make a run for two maybe three more years but they are desperate for better schemes & coaching.

(12-05-2018, 11:38 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If their linebackers could cover short routes for more than 0.005 seconds, the defensive line would have a little more time to get to the QB.

This. Hard to get sacks when the opposing qb can get the ball out to an open player in 2 seconds

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(12-05-2018, 11:01 AM)MentalRage Wrote: I know some people are really down on the d-line but Atkins and Dunlap are right around their career averages for sacks and tackles for losses.

So far Geno has 7 sacks, 9 tfl and 16 QB hits this year. Dunlap has 7 sacks, 7 tfl and 15 qb hits. Bengals still have 4 games to go. But lets look at their last three years just to compare.

Geno:                                                                 Dunlap:
2015 - 11.0 sacks, 17 tfl, 21 qb hits                         13.5 sacks, 16 tfl, 34 qb hits
2016 - 9.0 sacks, 13 tfl, 26 qb hits                           8.0 sacks, 7 tfl, 23 qb hits
2017 - 9.0 sacks, 10 tfl,  20 qb hits                          7.5 sacks, 12 tfl, 24 qb hits

Geno still ranks 3rd at his position in total pressures with 53. He's still very very good. Dunlap has always been consistent and above average but never the super star people make him out to be. He's only had 1 season with double digit sacks. Losing Carl Lawson hurt a lot more than people realize. Teams need at least 3 good pass rushers and the bengals only have two.

Right.....add Glasgow to the missing Carl Lawson part too.  Also, a huge problem is the lack of coverage at the next level, the LBs.  It's always wide open underneath, allowing opposing QBs to check down very quickly, or hit slants, etc.  The LBs poor play has diminshed the pass rush....even when Glasgow and Lawson were playing.

(12-05-2018, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: EVERY SINGLE FAN was happy when we signed these guys.

What is the point of threads like this?  If we had not re-signed both of these guys the fans would have been in mutiny.

You don't know that and have no way to know that.

1st.  I was happy with the Atkins signing, but Dunlap was a head scratcher.  It isn't like he is a dominant edge rusher and is worth the loyalty that people on this board give to him.

2nd.  There were other more important holes that needed to be filled and signing Dunlap hurt our ability to address those holes.

(12-05-2018, 01:54 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: 2nd.  There were other more important holes that needed to be filled and signing Dunlap hurt our ability to address those holes.

...no it didn't.

(12-05-2018, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The increase in pay was not necessarily to go to that "next" level, it was to pay the individual(s) appropriately for how they've been performing. Previously, they were essentially getting underpaid for how well they had performed.

Honestly, I think they've done a pretty good job this season after getting their new contracts.

I don't think they've done a "good job" (defense is dead last in four major categories), but it's also silly to blast them for getting paid what they're willing to be paid. Agree with you there. But they're still apart of one of the worst D's in many, many years... even if they are producing. I have a hard time labeling anyone on D good with those stats tbh

(12-05-2018, 01:54 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: 1st.  I was happy with the Atkins signing, but Dunlap was a head scratcher.  It isn't like he is a dominant edge rusher and is worth the loyalty that people on this board give to him.

Dunlap is consistently among lead leaders in QB pressures, QB hits, and PD (tipped passes).

Some people act like sacks are the only stat for pass rushers.  That is just not true.

(12-05-2018, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: EVERY SINGLE FAN was happy when we signed these guys.

What is the point of threads like this?  If we had not re-signed both of these guys the fans would have been in mutiny.

I also was happy but didn't realize how much a drop off the two would have. In the Steelers game alone BR dropped back 46 times and was sacked ZERO. It seems if we let a FA go i.e. Whit, they do great with another team but when we resign some FAs they seem complacent. The way the Bengals do there signings it leaves very little money to sign other teams FAs. They need to do like other teams and try to follow a winning programs outline.

(12-05-2018, 02:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap is consistently among lead leaders in QB pressures, QB hits, and PD (tipped passes).

Some people act like sacks are the only stat for pass rushers.  That is just not true.

Dunlap is at his best when Geno pushes into the QBs face and has to move out of the pocket. I don't know why Geno isn't getting that same push but Geno should have got a little kick back from Dunlap. Dunlap is good but not 15million/yr good.

(12-05-2018, 12:52 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Much like the offense, opponents have solved the defense. Happened to both around week 4.

I think there’s talent on this team. Enough to make a run for two maybe three more years but they are desperate for better schemes & coaching.

Exactly ! And better decisions on who to keep, who to let go, and to actually go out and get real free agents.

Marvin Lewis tells MB "hey I can coach any turd up into a stud LBer, we can save some money for ya there boss". Just like Piano man said "just watch, Ogbuehi will be an All-pro in no time with me coaching him"

And they've ruined this team being "yes men" for their boss who loves it cause he can save money.

(12-05-2018, 02:25 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Dunlap is good but not 15million/yr good.

It is not that simple.  If we let Dunlap walk we don't have our choice to sign any DE in the league to replace him.  We have to choose among available free agents.  And free agents don't get paid compared to the rest of the DEs in the league.  They get paid compared to the DEs that are available in free agency.

Dunlap's contract averages 13.5 million per year.  It would be hard to replace his production in free agency for much less than that.

(12-05-2018, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not that simple.  If we let Dunlap walk we don't have our choice to sign any DE in the league to replace him.  We have to choose among available free agents.  And free agents don't get paid compared to the rest of the DEs in the league.  They get paid compared to the DEs that are available in free agency.

Dunlap's contract averages 13.5 million per year.  It would be hard to replace his production in free agency for much less than that.

This
And the more the passing league comes into play, the more a DE like Dunlap is asked for. We got him for a relative bargain. Geno and Dunlap have been playing fine (maybe Dunlap has played slightly worse but not in an alarming sense). The rest of the DL is playing like poo besides one or two plays a game from Hubbard and Billings, and that is the issue

Also, how are people complaining about maybe slightly overpaying 2 very good players when we have some of the highest cap space in the league and ***** about not spending money. You all realize you have to 'overpay' every player in FA right?