(12-05-2018, 11:01 AM)MentalRage Wrote: I know some people are really down on the d-line but Atkins and Dunlap are right around their career averages for sacks and tackles for losses.

So far Geno has 7 sacks, 9 tfl and 16 QB hits this year. Dunlap has 7 sacks, 7 tfl and 15 qb hits. Bengals still have 4 games to go. But lets look at their last three years just to compare.

Geno:                                                                 Dunlap:
2015 - 11.0 sacks, 17 tfl, 21 qb hits                         13.5 sacks, 16 tfl, 34 qb hits
2016 - 9.0 sacks, 13 tfl, 26 qb hits                           8.0 sacks, 7 tfl, 23 qb hits
2017 - 9.0 sacks, 10 tfl,  20 qb hits                          7.5 sacks, 12 tfl, 24 qb hits

Geno still ranks 3rd at his position in total pressures with 53. He's still very very good. Dunlap has always been consistent and above average but never the super star people make him out to be. He's only had 1 season with double digit sacks. Losing Carl Lawson hurt a lot more than people realize. Teams need at least 3 good pass rushers and the bengals only have two.

Yep. They're having their normal year. When the team is bad...fans look for the stars to produce more.

They don't look for the bad players to be less bad.

(12-05-2018, 05:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. They're having their normal year. When the team is bad...fans look for the stars to produce more.

They don't look for the bad players to be less bad.

That is a very good point.  For example, I was looking for much, much more out Willis this season.  When he came out in the preseason, looking all buff and juiced, I thought he was really going to make a statement that he was ready to assume a greater role on the defense.  So far?  Crickets..

Another thing,

I remember reading on here or somewhere that the Bengals were one of the lowest blitzing teams in the NFL, if not the lowest. Think it was like the game before Austin got canned ?

We rarely fake blitz, there's little to no disguise in our D, nearly no innovation. We just lineup in base 4-3 and say if you out execute us you win, and we don't have the athletes for this.

How much easier is it for opposing Olines to block when they know 1. we're not coming 2. If we do blitz it's plain to see ?

Bengals fans always seem to have a tendency to attack our best players when things go wrong. This team is a mess thanks to Marvin overstaying his welcome for 5+ years, a series of mediocre drafts (1 pro bowler since 2011), and poor coordinator hires. We're not losing because of Dunlap and Atkins (or somehow overpaying them). You throw those guys on the Rams and that team would be even better. On the 2016-2018 Bengals, their talent has been a waste.

(12-05-2018, 07:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a very good point.  For example, I was looking for much, much more out Willis this season.  When he came out in the preseason, looking all buff and juiced, I thought he was really going to make a statement that he was ready to assume a greater role on the defense.  So far?  Crickets..

He grades out right around MJ's numbers. That's very bad for Willis.

Notice a lot of our young guys don't improve from Year 1 to Year 2 and sometimes get worse?

(12-05-2018, 08:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Another thing,

I remember reading on here or somewhere that the Bengals were one of the lowest blitzing teams in the NFL, if not the lowest. Think it was like the game before Austin got canned ?

We rarely fake blitz, there's little to no disguise in our D, nearly no innovation. We just lineup in base 4-3 and say if you out execute us you win, and we don't have the athletes for this.

How much easier is it for opposing Olines to block when they know 1. we're not coming 2. If we do blitz it's plain to see ?

Yeah...I think they try to copy what Zimmer did several years back.

As far as the not blitzing...our LB's are all terrible blitzers. That probably plays into it. I guess we could safety blitz.

(12-05-2018, 10:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Bengals fans always seem to have a tendency to attack our best players when things go wrong. This team is a mess thanks to Marvin overstaying his welcome for 5+ years, a series of mediocre drafts (1 pro bowler since 2011), and poor coordinator hires. We're not losing because of Dunlap and Atkins (or somehow overpaying them). You throw those guys on the Rams and that team would be even better. On the 2016-2018 Bengals, their talent has been a waste.

We've seen this story before huh ? Palmer, Chad, TJ were wasted away. Dalton, AJ, Geno now being wasted away.

(12-05-2018, 10:21 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He grades out right around MJ's numbers. That's very bad for Willis.

Notice a lot of our young guys don't improve from Year 1 to Year 2 and sometimes get worse?

Yes I do, and I find it very disturbing..

Not sure if someone posted this or not, but Geno's stats are pretty good compared to other interior linemen.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/05/geno-atkins-strong-season-reeling-bengals/

The LB's including Burfict are absolute trash. Its kind of like the offensive line last year. 1 entire unit is this bad it makes your other 7 to 8 players look worse than they actually are. We don't have a starting caliber LB on the roster.

(12-05-2018, 01:21 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: This. Hard to get sacks when the opposing qb can get the ball out to an open player in 2 seconds

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This is only partially true 

I've seen many times when the QB has plenty of time.

Recently against the Browns and Mayfield having what seemed like 8 seconds or more to scan the end zone for a throw.

(12-05-2018, 02:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap is consistently among lead leaders in QB pressures, QB hits, and PD (tipped passes).

Some people act like sacks are the only stat for pass rushers.  That is just not true.

Did I say anything about sacks? 

Nope. 

Dunlap is average at best, with a flashy play once in a while.  Just enough for people on this board to go nuts over. 

He is a nobody outside of this board.  I talk to football fans, fans of other teams, they can only name a handful of Bengals players to begin with.  Dalton, Green, Atkins, Burfict and now Mixon (not because he is anything special, but because he is a POS.)  Burfict is known as a dirty player, Dalton is respected but many think he is being held back from his potential.  Green and Atkins are considered top tier, elite, players that would instantly upgrade any team they go to.

Dunlap.  Nope never heard of him.  Know nothing about him, could be replaced by many DEs in the league and our line would be the same. 

Yet, you and many on this board act like he is JJ Watt, or Clowney or Garrett or Miller, just in stripes.  When in reality he is Michael Johnson, Margus Hunt, or some other DE that is still playing but is average at best.

(12-05-2018, 11:18 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: The LB's including Burfict are absolute trash. Its kind of like the offensive line last year. 1 entire unit is this bad it makes your other 7 to 8 players look worse than they actually are. We don't have a starting caliber LB on the roster.

Well...the offensive line is pretty bad too. But, yes the LB's are the worst unit on the team and it cascades through the defense.

(12-05-2018, 11:38 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: This is only partially true 

I've seen many times when the QB has plenty of time.

Recently against the Browns and Mayfield having what seemed like 8 seconds or more to scan the end zone for a throw.

Agreed. That excuse is bs. There’s so many plays every single game where the opposing QB has ALL DAY back there and we get absolutely no pressure. That is not on the LBers.

(12-05-2018, 11:52 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Did I say anything about sacks? 

Nope. 

Dunlap is average at best, with a flashy play once in a while.  Just enough for people on this board to go nuts over. 

He is a nobody outside of this board.  I talk to football fans, fans of other teams, they can only name a handful of Bengals players to begin with.  Dalton, Green, Atkins, Burfict and now Mixon (not because he is anything special, but because he is a POS.)  Burfict is known as a dirty player, Dalton is respected but many think he is being held back from his potential.  Green and Atkins are considered top tier, elite, players that would instantly upgrade any team they go to.

Dunlap.  Nope never heard of him.  Know nothing about him, could be replaced by many DEs in the league and our line would be the same. 

Yet, you and many on this board act like he is JJ Watt, or Clowney or Garrett or Miller, just in stripes.  When in reality he is Michael Johnson, Margus Hunt, or some other DE that is still playing but is average at best.

He's fairly solid against the run...but yes he's had over 9.5 sacks exactly once in his career and over 8 sacks exactly twice.

(12-05-2018, 11:52 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Did I say anything about sacks? 

Nope. 

Dunlap is average at best, with a flashy play once in a while.  Just enough for people on this board to go nuts over. 

He is a nobody outside of this board.  I talk to football fans, fans of other teams, they can only name a handful of Bengals players to begin with.  Dalton, Green, Atkins, Burfict and now Mixon (not because he is anything special, but because he is a POS.)  Burfict is known as a dirty player, Dalton is respected but many think he is being held back from his potential.  Green and Atkins are considered top tier, elite, players that would instantly upgrade any team they go to.

Dunlap.  Nope never heard of him.  Know nothing about him, could be replaced by many DEs in the league and our line would be the same. 

Yet, you and many on this board act like he is JJ Watt, or Clowney or Garrett or Miller, just in stripes.  When in reality he is Michael Johnson, Margus Hunt, or some other DE that is still playing but is average at best.

You think Dalton is respected outside of Cincy? Because that’s not been my experience at all. I’m not even a big fan of the guy, but I’ve found myself defending him a lot over the years to people elsewhere online. Most seem to think HE’S holding the team back, not the other way around. They have no idea just how bad our OL is, or about Mike Brown, etc.

(12-06-2018, 12:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You think Dalton is respected outside of Cincy? Because that’s not been my experience at all. I’m not even a big fan of the guy, but I’ve consta defended him over the years to people elsewhere online. Most seem to think HE’S holding the team back, not the other way around. They have no idea just how bad our OL is, or about Mike Brown, etc.

Most fans of other teams that I know ask me when the Bengals are going to move on from Dalton.

(12-06-2018, 12:03 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Most fans of other teams that I know ask me when the Bengals are going to move on from Dalton.

Same. You can’t really blame people considering a lot of them only see his dreadful prime time and playoff performances. Or just look at his stats.

(12-05-2018, 11:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Agreed. That excuse is bs. There’s so many plays every single game where the opposing QB has ALL DAY back there and we get absolutely no pressure. That is not on the LBers.

Right.

This is not some instance where the ball is going quickly to poorly covered receivers by our LBers every play.

When a QB has time to make reads and watch receivers progress open on routes that's on the D-line.

Now if we're talking about LBer assistance to blitz or chip block then they can shoulder the blame there in those situations.

That is not always the case though.

D-line has to have accountability for lack of pressure.

I don't care if they accrued sacks, pressures, batted passes in a hotstreak or handful of games.

Being a consistent force through the season especially since most have been healthy is required.

It's a marathon not a sprint.

This excuse of opposing QBs throwing the ball in nanoseconds because of poor LBer play is deflection argument at best.

(12-06-2018, 12:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Same. You can’t really blame people considering a lot of them only see his dreadful prime time and playoff performances. Or just look at his stats.

Yes - Honestly...for us as fans, it's hard to really sort this trainwreck out.

Marvin gets a ton of blame, and as the coach he should, but he's operating in an organization that doesn't really like free agency and actually makes a point of using free agency so they can get compensatory picks.

Can any coach win here? Can any QB?

It's hard to say? Does Aaron Rodgers become an MVP here?