(12-17-2018, 03:33 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Not every team has Green to throw the ball to. Dalton has feasted off throwing to the best wide receiver in the league.  

Total BS.  Green has never been the best WR in the league.  He has never even been All Pro.  And Dalton's numbers without him are not that much different from with him

Before this season in the 12 games Green had missed Dalton has actually averaged more passing yards (244.9) than for his career (235.5), and his passer rating without Green (85.2) is not much different from his career (88.9).

(12-17-2018, 03:33 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Not every team has Green to throw the ball to. Dalton has feasted off throwing to the best wide receiver in the league.  We made the playoffs those seasons with a very solid offensive line, running game, special teams, and our defense consistently in the top 10. 

and Matt Ryan had Julio. Ben has Antonio Brown. Watson has DeAndre Hopkins etc and so forth...

That's a chicken/egg statement.

(12-17-2018, 03:32 PM)Synric Wrote: I thought maybe Jax too but they are already way over the cap for next year. They will have to figure out a way to cut money before they can even think about trading for a QB.

Rumor is they will be cutting a bunch of those high priced FA contracts they have taken on over the last couple years as they head into a quick rebuild. Malik Jackson will be cut to save 11 million and Campbell probably gets cut to save another 10. Dareus can be cut to save 10 as well, but I could see them keeping Campbell and just cutting Jackson and Dareus. Hyde will be cut to save 5 million and Gibson will probably be cut to save 7 or so. 

This gets them all set for cap and able to absorb Dalton's deal.

(12-17-2018, 03:33 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Not every team has Green to throw the ball to. Dalton has feasted off throwing to the best wide receiver in the league.  We made the playoffs those seasons with a very solid offensive line, running game, special teams, and our defense consistently in the top 10. 

Green isn’t, and never has been, the best WR in the league.

(12-17-2018, 03:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ????????????

What is completion percent? The reality is he throws most passes (higher % than AD) less than 15 yards and still has bad completion percent overall. Just watch him, he is extremely high or left or right of the receiver, he has rarely hit receivers in stride when has completed passes.

The completion percent in today's NFL has to be 63 to 65% or above. I have not looked his up, but bet he is below 60%.

Dalton misses a lot of throws high as well. I'd say hes comparable to Dalton so far and he'll get better the more he plays. He's a rookie and Dalton only had a 80 qb rating his rookie season. 

I'm not saying Driskel is the answer, but he could be used a long with a high draft pick and a free agent qb. 

Driskel plus 16 million and high draft pick is more valuable than Dalton.  

Driskel plus a  good right tackle, good linebacker, free agent qb, and high draft pick is better than Dalton

(12-17-2018, 03:47 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Dalton misses a lot of throws high as well. I'd say hes comparable to Dalton so far and he'll get better the more he plays. He's a rookie and Dalton only had a 80 qb rating his rookie season. 

I'm not saying Driskel is the answer, but he could be used a long with a high draft pick and a free agent qb. 

Driskel + 16 million is more valuable than Dalton.  

Driskel + Good right tackle +  Good linebacker is better than Dalton

Driskel is not a rookie. This is his third year.

(12-17-2018, 03:48 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Driskel is not a rookie. This is his third year.

He's a rookie because this is his first year where he's actually played. 

(12-17-2018, 03:46 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Green isn’t, and never has been, the best WR in the league.

He's the best wide receiver in the past 8 years. There's a few others maybe tied with him for top spot, like Jones and Brown.  

(12-17-2018, 03:50 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: He's a rookie because this is his first year where he's actually played. 

That’s the NBA. That isn’t how it works in the NFL.

I know you’re busting balls and likely believe zero of what you’re saying, but I find this as entertaining as you likely do.

(12-17-2018, 03:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: That’s the NBA. That isn’t how it works in the NFL.

I know you’re busting balls and likely believe zero of what you’re saying, but I find this as entertaining as you likely do.

You have to be joking. What kind of clown counts sitting on the bench as years. This is the first year he's played !

(12-17-2018, 03:44 PM)Synric Wrote: and Matt Ryan had Julio. Ben has Antonio Brown. Watson has DeAndre Hopkins etc and so forth...

That's a chicken/egg statement.

Only a few wide receivers would be tied for top spot. You can only name a few because that's all there is. Keep trying harder and make it seem like every team has a Green to throw the ball to. 

(12-17-2018, 03:50 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: He's a rookie because this is his first year where he's actually played. 

(12-17-2018, 03:52 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: He's the best wide receiver in the past 8 years. There's a few others maybe tied with him for top spot, like Jones and Brown.  

This is getting a little silly.

(12-17-2018, 03:33 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Not every team has Green to throw the ball to. Dalton has feasted off throwing to the best wide receiver in the league.  We made the playoffs those seasons with a very solid offensive line, running game, special teams, and our defense consistently in the top 10. 

Offensive line gave up 46 sacks in 2012. 
Run game had an average rank of 22nd in yards per carry and 15th in yards.
Defense finished 22nd in 2014 and 11th in 2015.

As for Special Teams, we had average rankings of:

19th in FG%
8th in net punt average
16th in Kick Return average
11th in Punt Return average

So to sum it up...

Offensive line was mostly good in pass blocking, but 46 sacks didn't stop us from making the playoffs in 2012
Run game was terrible
Defense was mostly good, but the we still made the playoffs in 2014 with a 22nd ranked defense and a hobbled AJ Green
Special Teams was overall average

(12-17-2018, 04:00 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote:  Keep trying harder and make it seem like every team has a Green to throw the ball to. 

Dalton's passer rating without Green is only 3 points lower than has career rating, and Dalton has actually thrown for more yards per game without green than with him. 

Keep trying harder to make it seem like having Green makes a big difference

(12-17-2018, 03:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Total BS.  Green has never been the best WR in the league.  He has never even been All Pro.  And Dalton's numbers without him are not that much different from with him

Before this season in the 12 games Green had missed Dalton has actually averaged more passing yards (244.9) than for his career (235.5), and his passer rating without Green (85.2) is not much different from his career (88.9).

Green has definitely been tied for top spot if you look at his whole career. Who cares if he hasn't made an all pro team. Bengals players don't get selected to All Pro teams even when they should. Look at Whitworth. What about without Green and Eifert. Whats his qb ratings. 

So having a top wide out like Green , Eifert, Sanu, Jones, Bernard , a top 5 offensive line for most of his career, Whitworth at left tackle didn't help Dalton at all. 

If you add all the talent around him he's had top 10 for most of his career. He's only had a bad offensive line a couple times out of 8 years. 

(12-17-2018, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting a little silly.

Whats silly is you thinking Green isn't one of the best, if not the best wr, in the past 8 years. Whats silly is you counting sitting on the bench the same as playing in actual games. 

(12-17-2018, 04:07 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Green has definitely been tied for top spot if you look at his whole career. Who cares if he hasn't made an all pro team. Bengals players don't get selected to All Pro teams even when they should. Look at Whitworth. What about without Green and Eifert. Whats his qb ratings. 

So having a top wide out like Green , Eifert, Sanu, Jones, Bernard , a top 5 offensive line for most of his career, Whitworth at left tackle didn't help Dalton at all. 

If you add all the talent around him he's had top 10 for most of his career. He's only had a bad offensive line a couple times out of 8 years. 

What is Andy Dalton biggest issue? What makes him 10 to 15 QB instead of a top 5?

(12-17-2018, 04:13 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Whats silly is you thinking Green isn't one of the best, if not the best wr, in the past 8 years. Whats silly is you counting sitting on the bench the same as playing in actual games. 

AJ Green isn't the best receiver in the league. 

An actual argument would be Top 5. You won't find anyone that watches NFL games, played Football or otherwise, who thinks he is the best receiver in the NFL. That isn't a negative towards AJ Green, but more or less a view of the talent around the NFL.


Also, sitting on the bench, coming out to play, doesn't make you a rookie. I'm sorry. The argument could very well be made that there is a reason Driskel is on the bench. Jeff has had the opportunity to play. I think he has shown he is a serviceable back up, but nothing more. 

(12-17-2018, 04:00 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Only a few wide receivers would be tied for top spot. You can only name a few because that's all there is. Keep trying harder and make it seem like every team has a Green to throw the ball to. 

Well then we can mention Thomas, Beckham, Cooper, Thielen, Evans, JuJu, Keenan Allen etc.

But this isn't about where Green stands so lets get back to the point of the thread.

(12-17-2018, 04:20 PM)Synric Wrote: What is Andy Dalton biggest issue? What makes him 10 to 15 QB instead of a top 5?

Honestly, I think it is hard to find a glaring issue with Dalton. Inconsistent, maybe? Then again, fair to say the team as a whole suffers from this issue.

Again, like AJ Green...I think there is just better talent. People need to remember Dalton was drafted the same year as AJ Green, a round behind him. He was picked to be surrounded with talent. He has never been Cam Newton. Andrew Luck. Etc.