Welcome to the Jon Gruden school of team building

(01-04-2019, 01:55 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Because Geno is alot better than what is out on the market and a proven commodity. Your telling me a team that feels there one or two peices away from a championship wouldn't consider it.
If Geno Hit the open market he would be getting  close to what Aaron Donald is making the deal he signed is a bargain for the player he is as well. The contract wouldn't be that tough for a team to accept.

Suh is not a far enough fall off from Geno to give up a 1st when you can get the other without any compensation beyond his salary. Teams don't just give away 1 st's for old and expensive players.

We should package him with AJ Green.

This is silly. I'm not even sure they'd get a 1st round pick for Geno anyway.

(01-04-2019, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: coming off another non playoff season, this franchise needs another top 32 pick in the worst way.
The player at 12 that we draft hopefully is starter day 1.
but thanks to the huge draft blunder by the front office on whiffing on Fisher and Oguebhi...we have no cornerstones or impact players from that draft.
The Bengals need another 1st RD pick.
what asset on this team can deliver the Bengals another 1st RD pick and it wont really impact the overall scheme?

Geno Atkins.  look at his body of work in 2018.
1st 8 games 40 tackles 6 sacks.
last 8. 27 tackles 4 sacks,but 3 came vs Oakland.
He failed to show up in all AFC North losses.
did very little.
Geno is a future HOF. but lets not give a pass cause of his 2011 2017 years.
Christian Ringo came in and maybe on per snap basis was not that
far off from Atkins.
big time players show up in big time games.
he faded down the stretch.
did he get doubled...yep....and in the past hes beat double teams.
in 2018..not so much.
I dont think hes untouchable.

We could do it, sure!  If Gruden can do it, so can we.

(01-04-2019, 01:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The defense was in shambles for the bulk of the season. When you've got one very weak link it's hard to make up for it. When you've got 3 or 4 or 5 it's impossible !

MJ as one example was nearly a complete non-factor on the bulk of his plays. Opposing offenses know this and can slide the protection away from him because a RB or TE is all MJ requires. It's the domino effect.

I think MJ's replacement is a big need. I'd draft a stud LB in the first, but they need to address a pass rusher in FA. I like Hubbard, but I think he's still a rotational guy.

I won't rip you. Considering the current state of the team, you consider anything. That said, ultimately I don't think trading Geno is a good idea. The Patriots make such trades, but their prestige (from championships) allows them to do so. We're trying to build prestige. A championship probably isn't coming any time soon, so one of the only other options is to have a HOF player spend his entire career with the team.

(01-04-2019, 02:07 PM)jason Wrote: We should package him with AJ Green.

This is silly. I'm not even sure they'd get a 1st round pick for Geno anyway.

Considering his age and contract, we'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder. I'm dead serious.

People too often think about these things with their heart. Geno is great, but he's only got a couple effective years left.

(01-04-2019, 01:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: You aren't getting a 1st for Geno at this point with his contract and his age. I think people get way too optimistic about how quickly teams will give their 1st round picks away.

Especially considering this is a loaded DT class and there are several high end DT's scheduled to become UFA's, including Suh and Grady Jarrett.  It's a buyer's market at DT this year.

(01-04-2019, 02:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: Suh is not a far enough fall off from Geno to give up a 1st when you can get the other without any compensation beyond his salary. Teams don't just give away 1 st's for old and expensive players.

Geno litteraly doubled Suhs sack total this year  as well as his TFL total this year.  Geno is arguably the second best player at his position which happens to be the most valuable position on defense . He would Garner significant interest from any team that felt they have a small window for competing for a championship.

(01-04-2019, 02:40 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Geno litteraly doubled Suhs sack total this year  as well as his TFL total this year.  Geno is arguably the second best player at his position which happens to be the most valuable position on defense . He would Garner significant interest from any team that felt they have a small window for competing for a championship.

Nah. Your not thinking realistically inside the context of how NFL team value first round picks and older highly paid non QBs. Second issue here is JJ Watt and Fletcher Cox are both better than Geno as 3/5 techniques (since I assume your calling Donald a 5 technique the best), at least right now. The fact you just said DT is the most valuable position on defense shows this is emotional not logical.

(01-04-2019, 02:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: Nah. Your not thinking realistically inside the context of how NFL team value first round picks and older highly paid non QBs. Second issue here is JJ Watt and Fletcher Cox are both better than Geno as 3/5 techniques (since I assume your calling Donald a 5 technique the best), at least right now. The fact you just said DT is the most valuable position on defense shows this is emotional not logical.

What's more important than DT on defense? You care to elaborate on that? Also Geno is better than Fletcher Cox.

(01-04-2019, 03:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: What's more important than DT on defense? You care to elaborate on that? Also Geno is better than Fletcher Cox.

Well let's think about your logic for a second. If Geno is the 2nd best defensive tackle in the game (I disagree) and no position is more important than DT.....how do we have the 3rd worst defense in the NFL?

I'd argue in todays NFL a Inside/Middle LB is the most important position. All of the top defenses have really good Inside/MLB play.

I won't rip you. But this idea is fine by me IF and only IF the Bengals had a complete overhaul plan in place to put a roster together without being frivolous in free agency. His new 4 year deal starts this next season, and he doesn't exactly play at a prime position to make a ton of money at his age.

But this is the Bengals, so he should stay because it's not likely they would put that money to good use spending up to the cap at the same time.

(01-04-2019, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: coming off another non playoff season, this franchise needs another top 32 pick in the worst way.
The player at 12 that we draft hopefully is starter day 1.
but thanks to the huge draft blunder by the front office on whiffing on Fisher and Oguebhi...we have no cornerstones or impact players from that draft.
The Bengals need another 1st RD pick.
what asset on this team can deliver the Bengals another 1st RD pick and it wont really impact the overall scheme?

Geno Atkins.  look at his body of work in 2018.
1st 8 games 40 tackles 6 sacks.
last 8. 27 tackles 4 sacks,but 3 came vs Oakland.
He failed to show up in all AFC North losses.
did very little.
Geno is a future HOF. but lets not give a pass cause of his 2011 2017 years.
Christian Ringo came in and maybe on per snap basis was not that
far off from Atkins.
big time players show up in big time games.
he faded down the stretch.
did he get doubled...yep....and in the past hes beat double teams.
in 2018..not so much.
I dont think hes untouchable.

We pick 11. The player should be a starter, but there's no guarantee at all. And we need OL and LB help more than a Geno replacement.

Geno was the best guy on the line and consistently double teamed. No one else was consistent enough to also apply pressure. Very few blitzes.

Geno has been consistently a good DT. Usually in the top 5 DTs in sacks and pressures.

Who do you plan to pick to replace him?

SLAM SLAM SLAM!!!!

(01-04-2019, 03:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well let's think about your logic for a second. If Geno is the 2nd best defensive tackle in the game (I disagree) and no position is more important than DT.....how do we have the 3rd worst defense in the NFL?

I'd argue in todays NFL a Inside/Middle LB is the most important position. All of the top defenses have really good Inside/MLB play.

To expand on that, how do we plan to improve this awful defense if we ditch the best player (at the most important position) we have on defense?

(01-04-2019, 03:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To expand on that, how do we plan to improve this awful defense if we ditch the best player (at the most important position) we have on defense?

By drafting the exact same position with that pick we got bringing in someone who doesn't have as much experience or probably isn't as good right now.

(01-04-2019, 03:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: By drafting the exact same position with that pick we got bringing in someone who doesn't have as much experience or probably isn't as good right now.

Exactly?

(01-04-2019, 03:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well let's think about your logic for a second. If Geno is the 2nd best defensive tackle in the game (I disagree) and no position is more important than DT.....how do we have the 3rd worst defense in the NFL?

I'd argue in todays NFL a Inside/Middle LB is the most important position. All of the top defenses have really good Inside/MLB play.

Those teams also have really good 3T as well...  look the most important thing in today's NFL defensively is to pressure up the middle against the QB and to penetrate (giggidy) in the run games. The highest paid players on defense are generally 3TDT(besides Mack).

(01-04-2019, 03:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To expand on that, how do we plan to improve this awful defense if we ditch the best player (at the most important position) we have on defense?

I don't want to trade him I am just saying we could get good value for him. The OP point is pretty stupid if I am being honest.

(01-04-2019, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: coming off another non playoff season, this franchise needs another top 32 pick in the worst way.
The player at 12 that we draft hopefully is starter day 1.
but thanks to the huge draft blunder by the front office on whiffing on Fisher and Oguebhi...we have no cornerstones or impact players from that draft.
The Bengals need another 1st RD pick.
what asset on this team can deliver the Bengals another 1st RD pick and it wont really impact the overall scheme?

Geno Atkins. look at his body of work in 2018.
1st 8 games 40 tackles 6 sacks.
last 8. 27 tackles 4 sacks,but 3 came vs Oakland.
He failed to show up in all AFC North losses.
did very little.
Geno is a future HOF. but lets not give a pass cause of his 2011 2017 years.
Christian Ringo came in and maybe on per snap basis was not that
far off from Atkins.
big time players show up in big time games.
he faded down the stretch.
did he get doubled...yep....and in the past hes beat double teams.
in 2018..not so much.
I dont think hes untouchable.

You sure like being slammed. Sure this is a very unpopular opinion.

Keep Geno, the draft is a crapshoot, never trade away your proven players for unproven ones, never.