(01-14-2019, 03:40 PM)McC Wrote: Anyway....to get back to the OP...

I think Andy, or whoever the QB ends up being, will be much better off.  The thing you see with these new age offenses is how much more QB friendly they are.  You watch these offenses and are struck by how many times the QB is hitting wide open receivers who were schemed open, which is a luxury we haven't seen nearly enough of here lately.

If you can fool defenses, then you're not relying on as much beating your man to get open.

Andy has proven he can be a top ten QB under the right circumstances(2015), so we ought to be able to at least get another year out of him.  And if the new coach wants a new guy, then hopefully, he won't be shackled by outdated or overly predictable schemes.

You said a mouthful right there.  We haven't seen it in years.  This is my hope for the new offense.  Get people open.

(01-14-2019, 03:40 PM)McC Wrote: Anyway....to get back to the OP...

I think Andy, or whoever the QB ends up being, will be much better off.  The thing you see with these new age offenses is how much more QB friendly they are.  You watch these offenses and are struck by how many times the QB is hitting wide open receivers who were schemed open, which is a luxury we haven't seen nearly enough of here lately.

If you can fool defenses, then you're not relying on as much beating your man to get open.

Andy has proven he can be a top ten QB under the right circumstances(2015), so we ought to be able to at least get another year out of him.  And if the new coach wants a new guy, then hopefully, he won't be shackled by outdated or overly predictable schemes.

Sam Bradford
Derek Carr
Marcus Marriotta were all top 10 Qbs in 2016. 

Same with Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith in 2015 (And #1 in 2017 for Smith) 

(01-14-2019, 03:44 PM)Wyche Wrote: You said a mouthful right there.  We haven't seen it in years.  This is my hope for the new offense.  Get people open.

It is not against the rules to fool your opponent.

(01-14-2019, 03:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: Raider fans would beg to differ......and maybe even his HC.


That's right.  Joseph was already gone.  Good catch.

Well hell, If Gruden wants to get rid of him, he must be terrible. Look how bad Mack, Cooper, and CJ Anderson did.

Maybe we can trade Andy for Derek. I'd do it; hows about you? 

(01-14-2019, 03:44 PM)McC Wrote: Agreed.  And hell, that ain't even a basket.  That's a bucket with a big hole in the bottom.  I shudder to think of that scenario.

There are some FAs available, but no way would I look to rely on Driskel.

I'd rather look for a QB over the next couple of seasons, as I don't see any QBs that scream NFL success.  At least not right out of the gate.  A couple have some nice physical tools, but don't look very good under duress.

I've always wanted to see Dalton with a new coaching staff. Dalton does have talent, there's no doubt about that.
It's just a lack of consistency.

This will finally be the year where we can see Dalton with a brand new offense around him and see if he truly can excel.

(01-14-2019, 03:44 PM)TrevBengal Wrote: Sam Bradford
Derek Carr
Marcus Marriotta were all top 10 Qbs in 2016. 

Same with Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith in 2015 (And #1 in 2017 for Smith) 

Okay.

(01-14-2019, 03:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well hell, If Gruden wants to get rid of him, he must be terrible. Look how bad Mack, Cooper, and CJ Anderson did.

Maybe we can trade Andy for Derek. I'd do it; hows about you? 

No, I wouldn't.  Carr has become Captain Checkdown judging from the games I watched.  Two other teams passed on Anderson, his recent success may, or may not have  to do with a stellar oline (of course not in Cincy, some folks don't point to a shitty oline as a detriment ).

The other two were obvious salary dumps/getting draft picks.

(01-14-2019, 03:45 PM)McC Wrote: It is not against the rules to fool your opponent.

According to Merv, it was.

It's hard to remember but a key element of our "attack" offense under Wyche and Boomer was using scheme to get the receivers open. Ditto with Bruce Coslet when he was the OC and had Jeff Blake. We really did not degenerate into this uncreative "line up and beat your guy" stuff until Marvin had been here awhile.

(01-14-2019, 03:55 PM)Joelist Wrote: It's hard to remember but a key element of our "attack" offense under Wyche and Boomer was using scheme to get the receivers open. Ditto with Bruce Coslet when he was the OC and had Jeff Blake. We really did not degenerate into this uncreative "line up and beat your guy" stuff until Marvin had been here awhile.

And then, when that didn't work, the answer was always...

(01-14-2019, 03:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: No, I wouldn't.  Carr has become Captain Checkdown judging from the games I watched.  Three other teams passed on Anderson, his recent success may, or may not have  to do with a stellar oline (of course not in Cincy, some folks don't point to a shitty oline as a detriment ).

The other two were obvious salary dumps/getting draft picks.

Carr averaged 7.3.YPA this year.Andy averaged 7.0. (of course some folks watch Andy through orange colored glasses)

The other two were absolutely moronic moves. 

(01-14-2019, 03:55 PM)Joelist Wrote: It's hard to remember but a key element of our "attack" offense under Wyche and Boomer was using scheme to get the receivers open. Ditto with Bruce Coslet when he was the OC and had Jeff Blake. We really did not degenerate into this uncreative "line up and beat your guy" stuff until Marvin had been here awhile.

"Do your job".

(01-14-2019, 03:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would hate to trade Andy before the draft; although, I am on board with going QB early. Going into the draft with Jeff Driskel as your #1 is putting too many eggs in one basket. 

I'm not opposed to looking for a new QB but if you trade Dalton you better have someone capable of not losing you games 'cause trading Dalton without his replacement already here means you could enter the season looking at having another losing season.

(01-14-2019, 03:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well hell, If Gruden wants to get rid of him, he must be terrible. Look how bad Mack, Cooper, and CJ Anderson did.

Maybe we can trade Andy for Derek. I'd do it; hows about you? 

I'd do it.

(01-14-2019, 03:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Carr averaged 7.3.YPA this year.Andy averaged 7.0. (of course some folks watch Andy through orange colored glasses)

The other two were absolutely moronic moves. 

I don't watch through anything....I watched 3 Raiders games, and saw a bunch of dump offs.  Which, is what a few people I know that are Raiders fans complain about.   Dalton had 11.4 YPC, Carr had 10.6, what's your point?  Dalton usually has a long of around 80, Carr has one season where his long was above 80.  Dalton also had 2 more TDs, and played in 4 fewer games.  Of course, I'm not the one that thought Johnny Fartball would be a HUGE success either.

Mack was a foolish move up front, Cooper had disappointed, but came to life in Dallas.  With Dak Prescott.   Realistically, Cooper is wildly inconsistent.  If you can get what Dallas offered for a guy like that, you'd be a fool not to take it.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoopAm00.htm

That said, it's pretty obvious what they are doing in Oakland.  A complete tear down and going after cap savings and draft picks.  Only thing that is moronic is not realizing that is the case only two years removed from seeing a team in our own division do the exact same thing.

(01-14-2019, 04:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'd do it.

You seen the salary differences?

(01-14-2019, 03:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You guys might be misremembering. JJo had an INT for HOU that game, but it wasn't a pick 6. Leon Hall had a pick 6 for us. 

Yes, it was Hall. I mis-read the prior post. The pick 6 was for us.

(01-14-2019, 04:14 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yes, it was Hall. I mis-read the prior post. The pick 6 was for us.

I mis-remembered.

(01-14-2019, 04:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: I mis-remembered.

No matter. We were talking about our defense scoring a TD while our offense managed just 6 points, meaning our defense out scored the offense.

(01-13-2019, 02:06 PM)Synric Wrote: I am you looked at his pff and his price tag and said cut him. 

Look we know he struggled the entire team struggled like I said he graded out 1 point less than Boling who also struggled in pass protection. A huge reason was because how many times defenses were able to T off against the line because they didnt have to worry about run game.

PFF is a good jumping off point but not end all.

I watched how he played and saw that the PFF rating matched what we all saw. Then I peeped the price tag, saw his age, compared his price to other tackles around the league, looked at our needs and arrived at a pretty logical conclusion. A $9.25 million dollar tackle shouldn't need a plethora of excuses. You think a guy like Whit would need excuses?

I won't be mad if we keep him...hopefully he can turn it around, but we can also get similar tackle play at a much cheaper rate. At this point, we just have to hope that if we keep him, he miraculously improves. I'm a bit worn on hoping crappy players suddenly get better though. Excuses are also getting pretty tiring.