I agree with the guy that had this to say in response to the tweet:

"I guess the Patriots are cheap. Wilfork, Seymore, mcginst, Collins. Come on man. Kirkpatrick was the right call on that day. History looks like MAYBE it's the wrong call. Dre is still an asset in my opinion."

Maybe not so much on the "Dre is still an asset" part, but at the time it was the smart move.

1. We had a young corner coming off a career year.
2. We'd drafted to replace Whit
3. Whit was 36 years old. Players that age RARELY continue to play at an elite level.

Hindsight is 20/20, but the odds of a guy continuing to play at an elite level at that age are slim. We just got bit and it turns out that Whit is the Jerry Rice of tackles. That doesn't mean that it was a dumb decision at the time. Had Ogbuehi lived up to his draft status, none of this would even be an issue. THAT is where we screwed up.

I think that after two years, it's time to move on. 

That's what happens when non-football people are allowed to make football decisions.

If we look back at that year, Ogbuehi and Fisher were finishing their 2nd season in the league. Ogbuehi had just finished a season where he completely failed at RT and ended the season on IR for the second season in a row. Fisher couldn't beat out Ogbuehi.

The team had to know that Ogbuehi and Fisher were busts at that point.

Marv wanted Whit back. It was the front office that F'd it up.

-This guy is no longer on the team why do I have to hear every breath uttered from thie fool in the Bengals section of this website it should not be here.

(03-02-2019, 02:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with the guy that had this to say in response to the tweet:

"I guess the Patriots are cheap. Wilfork, Seymore, mcginst, Collins. Come on man. Kirkpatrick was the right call on that day. History looks like MAYBE it's the wrong call. Dre is still an asset in my opinion."

Maybe not so much on the "Dre is still an asset" part, but at the time it was the smart move.

1. We had a young corner coming off a career year.
2. We'd drafted to replace Whit
3. Whit was 36 years old. Players that age RARELY continue to play at an elite level.

Hindsight is 20/20, but the odds of a guy continuing to play at an elite level at that age are slim. We just got bit and it turns out that Whit is the Jerry Rice of tackles. That doesn't mean that it was a dumb decision at the time. Had Ogbuehi lived up to his draft status, none of this would even be an issue. THAT is where we screwed up.

Whits replacement was benched by Paul Alexander in 2016. When else has Alexander ever benched a player before that?  Dude blew chunks and honestly should have been cut after said season that's how bad he was. There is zero defense for the front office on this issue.

People just want to seem superior and act like they know better than the front office. How many times have we listened to those complain about the Bengals keeping players too long? Whit was old for an NFL lineman, and playing on repaired knees. The odds of him giving 3 more years were low. Letting him go was the smart play..... not having his replacement was where they messed up. Whit left of his own accord, he's dead to me.....and does not belong in Jungle Noise.

(03-02-2019, 03:27 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Whits replacement was benched by Paul Alexander in 2016. When else has Alexander ever benched a player before that?  Dude blew chunks and honestly should have been cut after said season that's how bad he was. There is zero defense for the front office on this issue.

He blew chunks, but how often does a team give up on a 1st round draft pick after only a few games? 

...and again, Whit was 36. We all know it's rare for a player that age to sustain elite play. Heck, I can't think of any tackles that played this well at 36-37 years old. I'm sure there's a few, but I can't think of any without looking it up. Point is, it's rare. The Bengals gambled that he'd probably fall off. They lost the bet. That doesn't mean they were stupid to look at the odds. 

(03-02-2019, 04:50 AM)GodFather Wrote: I remember reading how pissed Lewis was the front office let him go. Seems like everyone wanted him staying except the front office.

He should be happy, he's gone to a Super Bowl in his career vs staying with the Bengals...blessing in disguise for him...

Well the Bengals DID try to keep him. Remember? They were walking around the combine telling everyone that Whitworth was coming back. It looked like he was staying FOR SURE according to reports.

Then...he signed with the Rams.

Man...it was botched. And not just when he left. Drafting Ced and Fisher. Ced was coming off a severe injury and was going to likely miss the upcoming year. Probably could have taken him in the 2nd Round. Look at the scouting report for Ced - he gave up a lot of sacks in college too.

Just botched on so many levels. They could have franchise tagged him.

It didn't have to be Kirkpatrick OR Whitworth. And we could have afforded Zeitler too, but people say no Guard is worth that much and side with the Bengals.

Well, we've had a TERRIBLE line the past 2 years, but we saved money.

(03-02-2019, 04:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He blew chunks, but how often does a team give up on a 1st round draft pick after only a few games? 

...and again, Whit was 36. We all know it's rare for a player that age to sustain elite play. Heck, I can't think of any tackles that played this well at 36-37 years old. I'm sure there's a few, but I can't think of any without looking it up. Point is, it's rare. The Bengals gambled that he'd probably fall off. They lost the bet. That doesn't mean they were stupid to look at the odds. 

It was a 11 games and he showed little progress if any. 
2.) There was a simple solution franchise tag Whit. They didn't need to take any risk could have Franchised him then sign him to a cheaper 3 year deal with easy outs. This isn't the NBA where you can't cut bad players because of contracts.

(03-02-2019, 05:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It was a 11 games and he showed little progress if any. 
2.) There was a simple solution franchise tag Whit. They didn't need to take any risk could have Franchised him then sign him to a cheaper 3 year deal with easy outs. This isn't the NBA where you can't cut bad players because of contracts.

Yes. Franchise tag seemed like the best solution.

They definitely screwed up with this. If we had whit to hold down the line, then picked another 1st round corner we’d be in much better shape. Dre was overpaid, couldve got another rookie cb on a cheaper deal. Would be easier to pay dennard this year if they dont already have money wrapped up in dre. Our line wouldve been in much better shape the past few years, and going into this year. They screwed up, hope they learned from it.

I think the key point that they failed to miss is that we didnt have someone to replace whit, who plays an elite position in the nfl. They could have replaced dre with a draft pick easily. Comes down to talent evaluation. They didnt properly evaluate the talent behind whit on the depth chart.

(03-02-2019, 05:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It was a 11 games and he showed little progress if any. 
2.) There was a simple solution franchise tag Whit. They didn't need to take any risk could have Franchised him then sign him to a cheaper 3 year deal with easy outs. This isn't the NBA where you can't cut bad players because of contracts.

Yes 11 games. Less than a full season. I'll agree that the franchise tag would've been a good option given how much Og was struggling. Maybe Whit really didn't want that? Either way, I'm mainly talking about not matching the Rams 3 year deal...which was the most money ever spent on a Tackle that age. Which is telling.

(03-02-2019, 05:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yes 11 games. Less than a full season. I'll agree that the franchise tag would've been a good option given how much Og was struggling. Maybe Whit really didn't want that? Either way, I'm mainly talking about not matching the Rams 3 year deal...which was the most money ever spent on a Tackle that age. Which is telling.

The only thing I would disagree with is that matching the Rams deal wouldn't have been much a risk at all for the Bengals. It was basically a one year deal, with an option for 2 more. If Whit showed signs of falling after the 1st year, they could have simply walked away from the deal being out a total of 15m. Given what we had seen from OG and Fisher to that point, that didn't seem like a huge gamble to take for at least one more year of Whit.

I think the Bengals were in a tough spot...having drafted 2 tackles, hoping one would be Whit's eventual successor, and the fact that Whit was an aging LT with no guarantees that his performance wouldn't take a nose dive. IMO, the best move would've have been to do a deal similar to the Rams, where you get at least one more year of Whit - hoping that he still plays fairly well - while giving yourself more time to evaluate and get a better feel about what you have in Og and/or Fisher.

All we can hope is that Troy and Katie actually learn from their mistakes, unlike Mike. I’m assuming they were listening to Alexander tell them that Fisher and Ogbuehi were going to be ready. I really think those two being busts was the reason that Alexander finally got fired. If they don’t learn from their mistakes, then we’re still screwed

(03-02-2019, 06:09 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The only thing I would disagree with is that matching the Rams deal wouldn't have been much a risk at all for the Bengals. It was basically a one year deal, with an option for 2 more. If Whit showed signs of falling after the 1st year, they could have simply walked away from the deal being out a total of 15m. Given what we had seen from OG and Fisher to that point, that didn't seem like a huge gamble to take for at least one more year of Whit.

I think the Bengals were in a tough spot...having drafted 2 tackles, hoping one would be Whit's eventual successor, and the fact that Whit was an aging LT with no guarantees that his performance wouldn't take a nose dive. IMO, the best move would've have been to do a deal similar to the Rams, where you get at least one more year of Whit - hoping that he still plays fairly well - while giving yourself more time to evaluate and get a better feel about what you have in Og and/or Fisher.

I'm definitely no cap expert, but spotrac says there would be 5.1 million in dead cap space if Whit were cut now, and it would've been $17.3 million in dead cap if he were cut last year. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/andrew-whitworth-1388/

Tbh, if Whit wanted to stay THAT badly, maybe the franchise tag would've been the best route?

(03-02-2019, 06:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm definitely no cap expert, but spotrac says there would be 5.1 million in dead cap space if Whit were cut now, and it would've been $17.3 million in dead cap if he were cut last year. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/andrew-whitworth-1388/

Tbh, if Whit wanted to stay THAT badly, maybe the franchise tag would've been the best route?

I was talking about walking away from the contract after year one, which was the only year that was totally guaranteed.

As for Whit wanting to stay, I don't think there's any real doubt that he did. He's stated it many times in different interviews that his goal was to retire a Bengal, and if Melissa's account is accurate...he's was wanting to stay right up to the very end. 

As for the FT, I think that would have been somewhere in the middle of options, but still a good idea. It might not have carried the same respect level in his eyes as the Rams-type deal, but is sure would've beat just letting him walk at the time. 

Let's not forget, the last couple of years we had Whit and Zeitler on our Oline, it pretty much still sucked.

(03-02-2019, 04:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well the Bengals DID try to keep him. Remember? They were walking around the combine telling everyone that Whitworth was coming back. It looked like he was staying FOR SURE according to reports.

Then...he signed with the Rams.

Man...it was botched. And not just when he left. Drafting Ced and Fisher. Ced was coming off a severe injury and was going to likely miss the upcoming year. Probably could have taken him in the 2nd Round. Look at the scouting report for Ced - he gave up a lot of sacks in college too.

Just botched on so many levels. They could have franchise tagged him.

It didn't have to be Kirkpatrick OR Whitworth. And we could have afforded Zeitler too, but people say no Guard is worth that much and side with the Bengals.

Well, we've had a TERRIBLE line the past 2 years, but we saved money.

We have this reputation for drafting so well and I dont think so. Our first rounders have not been great choices looking back on them. Yeah AJ was an amazing pick but after that?  

Or how about that wonderful 2nd round Simpson pick? We have a tendency to draft "projects" high...dumb. A project is a 5th or 6th rounder, not top 3.

(03-02-2019, 02:51 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That's what happens when non-football people are allowed to make football decisions.

If we look back at that year, Ogbuehi and Fisher were finishing their 2nd season in the league. Ogbuehi had just finished a season where he completely failed at RT and ended the season on IR for the second season in a row. Fisher couldn't beat out Ogbuehi.

The team had to know that Ogbuehi and Fisher were busts at that point.

Marv wanted Whit back. It was the front office that F'd it up.

Cedric play zero as rookie, Fsher got hurt no way you can predict busts, they had more investment in them then Whit and he was talking retirement put that season... and I guess people forget we signed him to 3 contracts at least in this cateer.. so not like we did not care about him