(03-13-2019, 11:01 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Basically its down to 4 people for best receiver in football. 2 of the 4 were such headcases they couldn't stay with their original teams the other has trouble scoring TD's and been more nicked up than our guy.

Other than Brown, OBJ, and Julio, there’s also, Adam Thielen, DeAndre Hopkins, Tyrek Hill, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans, and probably a few more I’m forgetting.

At his best I think AJ was top 5, but at this point, with some of these young guys coming up, I’d say more like top 10.

(03-13-2019, 10:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. A new coach was a great time to change the culture of the organization. It's more of the same. They will rely on Taylor to be some gameplanning genius...which we saw he wasn't at U of Cincy.

We can't really base what he will do at this level, compared to that.  Cincy was devoid of talent.  Sam Wyche was 1-11 at IU before becoming our head coach.  Amidst the losing, he saw a way to narrow the talent gap with the no huddle.  Ya never know, maybe Taylor learned something like that during his time there.  Maybe not.

Turner has singlehandedly sabotaged ZT coaching era with the Bengals.

It's this hire that has gotten ZT the most criticism rather it is because of his background, his lack of successful lines, or his evaluation of talent (Hart).

There will be no additional seats filled at PB stadium and the honeymoon is over.

Turner must go. He's been nothing but trouble for ZT.

Highlights the importance of good hires, and how one bad hire can sink a ship.

(03-13-2019, 09:31 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think the upcoming draft will be a make or break point for many fans. The Bengals front office has to hit at least a couple home runs to restore the faith in what seems to be a mundane franchise.

I'll give em time to see if they can actually do the impossible and you know....win games n stuff.. If the draft and off season signings were the only measure of a team's success then the Browns would have won the super bowl several times over the past decade.. Think of how many years Browns fans only celebrated the #1 overall draft pick over the years with the privilege of wearing brown paper bags over their heads.. 
The season ain't over till it's over.  

(03-13-2019, 10:59 AM)kevin Wrote: Well, I disagree. I don't think what Nate said is well said and not backed with any reasons.  He is upset about the off season.  Free Agency starts in 6 hours, so that hasn't happened yet, nor has The Draft.  Still, he is upset with the off season.  So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.  Had they kept Marvin, people would be upset. They get rid of Marvin and people are upset.  I say the people on here complaining about the off season at this early point, just live on this site complaining just to complain. Complaining just because they like to complain, that is all it is.  GO BENGALS. This last place team needed a rebuild.

Saying Bengals fans are just complaining to complain is like saying Patriots fans would be just as happy with their team even if they hadn't won 6 SBs in the past 20 years.

(03-13-2019, 11:12 AM)Wyche Wrote: We can't really base what he will do at this level, compared to that.  Cincy was devoid of talent.  Sam Wyche was 1-11 at IU before becoming our head coach.  Amidst the losing, he saw a way to narrow the talent gap with the no huddle.  Ya never know, maybe Taylor learned something like that during his time there.  Maybe not.

I think guys that become great coaches have at least good talent on the roster...in the NFL more so than many sports. You can't have 5-6 weak starting positions in the NFL.

You just can't hide a lot of weaknesses in the NFL.

Now maybe he finds a way to make Ross productive and guys we have that have underachieved, but the shortest path to being a contender was to upgrade some spots on the roster.

(03-13-2019, 11:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Saying Bengals fans are just complaining to complain is like saying Patriots fans would be just as happy with their team even if they hadn't won 6 SBs in the past 20 years.

Except they fired the coaches Nate and brought in new ones.  As for the players, that starts in a few hours.  4 PM today Free Agency starts.  Hey, I'm not happy about the 2018 team either.  As the Browns marched up and down the field on Bengals, I turned the game off before half time and raked leaves that needed raking in time for leaf pick up by city.  Normally I wouldn't turn off the Bengals, but they were too bad to watch.  This is why I'm happy they have new coaches. Bring on Free Agency and The Draft.  This team needed a Rebuild and there is a Rebuild in place.  It is way too early to judge these new coaches or the rebuild that just started.  GO BENGALS. 

(03-13-2019, 11:34 AM)kevin Wrote: Except they fired the coaches Nate and brought in new ones.

Great, so now we're the Browns.

(03-13-2019, 09:24 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: So far everyone is being really negative on the team. I feel we have the best WR in football on our team right now A QB who with the right guidance is better than Goff. A RB who might peak next year to become all pro. A pro bowl caliber number 2 WR A top 10 Defensive line with a mediocre secondary. With a new coach who by default will be better on gameday than what we had by a mile . its not all doom and gloom.

I'm right there with ya and the constant whining has got to stop.

Bobby Hart is only 24 years old and appears to be an ironman. Sure he struggled last year, but it was his first year in the system and had a revolving door playing on both sides of him at RG/TE. My hope is that we still with Hart at RT and draft a young OG stud or move Price to RG.

Brown is only 26 and has been a high caliber/durable ILB his whole career. Unfortunately, he suffered an injury opening day last year and fans that cannot see beyond their noses now call him garbage.

Uzo is no world beater but he did manage 43 catches last year for 3 TDs. Not bad considering he started the season as the #3 TE. I hope to see him more in the Hewitt role this year.

If you're not happy with the 2018 team, I've got bad news for you.....

Those thinking Hart is going to somehow improve just aren't being realistic.

When a kid throws a fit in the store for some candy and the parent gives it to them, do you think they'll improve? They won't.

The Bengals gave Hart a significant raise for poor play, why think he'll improve when he's been rewarded? This actually hurts the whole roster as the standard has been set.

The kid got the candy, and now the good siblings who thought they had to behave to get what they want see what they really have to do.

(03-13-2019, 11:34 AM)kevin Wrote: Except they fired the coaches Nate and brought in new ones.  As for the players, that starts in a few hours.  4 PM today Free Agency starts.  Hey, I'm not happy about the 2018 team either.  As the Browns marched up and down the field on Bengals, I turned the game off before half time and raked leaves that needed raking in time for leaf pick up by city.  Normally I wouldn't turn off the Bengals, but they were too bad to watch.  This is why I'm happy they have new coaches. Bring on Free Agency and The Draft.  This team needed a Rebuild and there is a Rebuild in place.  It is way too early to judge these new coaches or the rebuild that just started.  GO BENGALS. 

They've brought in new coaches over the years. Fired Zampese and installed Lazor as OC. Fired Alexander and brought in Pollack. Hired Austin as OC.

It's hardly like the coaching staff has been the same.

You don't win in the NFL without a quality roster. It's as simple as that.

A regime that hires Turner and bring Hart back doesn’t deserve a chance. I miss Marvin

(03-13-2019, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm right there with ya and the constant whining has got to stop.

Bobby Hart is only 24 years old and appears to be an ironman. Sure he struggled last year, but it was his first year in the system and had a revolving door playing on both sides of him at RG/TE. My hope is that we still with Hart at RT and draft a young OG stud or move Price to RG.

Brown is only 26 and has been a high caliber/durable ILB his whole career. Unfortunately, he suffered an injury opening day last year and fans that cannot see beyond their noses now call him garbage.

Uzo is no world beater but he did manage 43 catches last year for 3 TDs. Not bad considering he started the season as the #3 TE. I hope to see him more in the Hewitt role this year.

Superbowl here we come!

Lordy, Mike Brown could make a turkey club on rye the HC and some people would be like "Hang on now, we can't criticize this move until we lift up the bread and see what kind of mustard is on there."

(03-13-2019, 11:31 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think guys that become great coaches have at least good talent on the roster...in the NFL more so than many sports. You can't have 5-6 weak starting positions in the NFL.

You just can't hide a lot of weaknesses in the NFL.

Now maybe he finds a way to make Ross productive and guys we have that have underachieved, but the shortest path to being a contender was to upgrade some spots on the roster.

While I agree with your sentiment, that '88 team had one HOFer, and took a team full of them to the wire in the SB in the middle of their dynasty.  All I'm saying is, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Gregg turned the team around rather quickly too.

(03-13-2019, 11:39 AM)jj22 Wrote: If you're not happy with the 2018 team, I've got bad news for you.....

Those thinking Hart is going to somehow improve just aren't being realistic.

When a kid throws a fit in the store for some candy and the parent gives it to them, do you think they'll improve? They won't.

The Bengals gave Hart a significant raise for poor play, why think he'll improve when he's been rewarded? This actually hurts the whole roster as the standard has been set.

The kid got the candy, and now the good siblings who thought they had to behave to get what they want see what they really have to do.

It kills a teams culture too when you reward poor performance. The players know Hart is a poor starting and I bet they're all talking about this to each other.

(03-13-2019, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm right there with ya and the constant whining has got to stop.

Bobby Hart is only 24 years old and appears to be an ironman. Sure he struggled last year, but it was his first year in the system and had a revolving door playing on both sides of him at RG/TE. My hope is that we still with Hart at RT and draft a young OG stud or move Price to RG.

Brown is only 26 and has been a high caliber/durable ILB his whole career. Unfortunately, he suffered an injury opening day last year and fans that cannot see beyond their noses now call him garbage.

Uzo is no world beater but he did manage 43 catches last year for 3 TDs. Not bad considering he started the season as the #3 TE. I hope to see him more in the Hewitt role this year.

Not to mention, Uzo played hurt down the stretch and continued to produce.  While I'm not thrilled with the Hart signing, I understand the basics of it.  I guess we're in the minority in liking the Uzo and Brown extensions.  Uzo is a good blocker too.

(03-13-2019, 11:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: While I agree with your sentiment, that '88 team had one HOFer, and took a team full of them to the wire in the SB in the middle of their dynasty.  All I'm saying is, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Gregg turned the team around rather quickly too.

The NFL isn't necessarily about high end talent when it comes to winning.

It's about having average to above average starters and NOT having bad starters.

We have several high end players. We've also had 5-6 spots on the roster with Bad Starters the past few years. It's hard to overcome that.

You can't start 4 poor offensive lineman and win. I've showed the PFF analysis. Many of the teams ranked in the Top 10 for offensive line made the playoffs. Same with LB.

(03-13-2019, 09:24 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: So far everyone is being really negative on the team. I feel we have the best WR in football on our team right now A QB who with the right guidance is better than Goff. A RB who might peak next year to become all pro. A pro bowl caliber number 2 WR A top 10 Defensive line with a mediocre secondary. With a new coach who by default will be better on gameday than what we had by a mile . its not all doom and gloom.

I don't have any issue with your optimism, but I do strongly disagree with a couple things:

1.  There's no guarantee that Taylor will be any better on game day than Marvin.  He's a rookie coach, there's bound to be some issues.

2.  The Pro-Bowl WR , RB, WR2 and Dalton will be extremely ineffective if the right side of the line isn't addressed.  

I don't think this team is that far away, but the start of free agency really makes me wonder if these guys have any clue what they are doing.  I can't see any scenario where you bring back the worst RT in the game AND give him a raise.

(03-13-2019, 11:50 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The NFL isn't necessarily about high end talent when it comes to winning.

It's about having average to above average starters and NOT having bad starters.

We have several high end players. We've also had 5-6 spots on the roster with Bad Starters the past few years. It's hard to overcome that.

You can't start 4 poor offensive lineman and win. I've showed the PFF analysis. Many of the teams ranked in the Top 10 for offensive line made the playoffs. Same with LB.

I agree.  The team was playing winning offensive football before the injuries took their toll.  Glenn played hurt a lot (had to have an epidural just to try to take the field late in the season), Price was hurt and young, Brown played hurt, Uzo, etc.  That said, when I look at it, not having good depth is what REALLY sunk the team.  Goes back to the drafts, like you said.

That said, they didn't utilize Bernard at all.  Seemed confused on how to use Ross, had no contingency plan when the TE injuries piled up, and so forth.  Things like this are where the coaching may make a difference.