That's the $64 question

Let's face it that's the true hurdle he has to clear. It's not who the position coaches are, it's not what players he gets in free agency, it's not who he drafts, it's not what offense he runs.

This team has a history of losing nearly three decades long, even in the playoff seasons we were one and done all 7 times ! We fold up under the lights nearly every time, rarely do we beat the good teams in the league when we need it most. We implode at the slightest sign of adversity way more often than not. The Steelers have owned us for far to long now. And the list goes on.

Can he get that culture turned around ? Can he win with the leagues worst GM ? Can he get this team to focus on team and not I ? Can he get this team to stay steady under pressure, can he get them to buy in ? Can he get them to not listen to the noise against Pittsburgh ?

That's his biggest test of all

To me that is the only question at this point. He can sign every All Pro FA on the market, but it wont get us over the hump without a culture change. We have All Pro's. We've had top 10 offenses and top 10 defenses. We've been in playoff games and we've even been in a situation where all we had to do was run the clock out to win a playoff game. Nothing to show for it. A culture change, imo is needed way above any FA we could possibly get. Thats why I have a wait and see attitude and dont care who we sign at this point. Let see what he can get out of what we got.

(03-31-2019, 04:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the $64 question

Let's face it that's the true hurdle he has to clear. It's not who the position coaches are, it's not what players he gets in free agency, it's not who he drafts, it's not what offense he runs.

This team has a history of losing nearly three decades long, even in the playoff seasons we were one and done all 7 times ! We fold up under the lights nearly every time, rarely do we beat the good teams in the league when we need it most. We implode at the slightest sign of adversity way more often than not. The Steelers have owned us for far to long now. And the list goes on.

Can he get that culture turned around ? Can he win with the leagues worst GM ? Can he get this team to focus on team and not I ? Can he get this team to stay steady under pressure, can he get them to buy in ? Can he get them to not listen to the noise against Pittsburgh ?

That's his biggest test of all

To me, all those playoff losses, the prime time meltdowns, getting owned by Pittsburgh all fall on poor coaching (IE Marvin Lewis).

Now granted, the bengals are owned and managed by incompetent nitwits. But you can’t argue with the fact that this team has been to the playoffs 7 times and won the AFC North 3 times. All despite this horrific front office (maybe they got out of their own way just enough for small amounts of success to happen, I don’t know).

Anyway, we’ve had super bowl contending teams with this same front office. It came down to poor coaching when it counts. Point being, I believe this team can win it all even with the Brown Family Circus calling the shots. It all comes down to Zac: his roster, his overall game management, etc.

(03-31-2019, 05:43 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: To me, all those playoff losses, the prime time meltdowns, getting owned by Pittsburgh all fall on poor coaching (IE Marvin Lewis).

Now granted, the bengals are owned and managed by incompetent nitwits. But you can’t argue with the fact that this team has been to the playoffs 7 times and won the AFC North 3 times. All despite this horrific front office (maybe they got out of their own way just enough for small amounts of success to happen, I don’t know).

Anyway, we’ve had super bowl contending teams with this same front office. It came down to poor coaching when it counts. Point being, I believe this team can win it all even with the Brown Family Circus calling the shots. It all comes down to Zac: his roster, his overall game management, etc.

We've had teams with a roster capable of competing for a SB maybe 2-3 times under this management team in 27 years. Something like all but 5 teams in the NFL have been to the SB over that span of time.

It did come down to poor coaching at times during the playoff losses, and not just Marvin. Our defenses melted down. Look at the stats for the 2015 playoff loss. We gave up A LOT of rushing yards to the Steelers who were without Bell and had 2 guys they signed off the street rushing. The front office also chose to not address glaring weaknesses a lot of seasons such as getting a MLB who could cover a TE. Getting a capable Center, etc.

It's tough to win here. The same things Coughlin said 15 years ago when he interviewed ring true.

Plus, coaches have to scout heavily. It's hard to create a new playbook and evaluate the entire roster when you are out scouting.

Plus, MB, Katie, Troy, and Duke all supposedly meet with Zac Taylor daily. Sounds like micromanagement. How do you get an infusion of fresh ideas and culture change when the people who created that culture are all that heavily involved?

Most of what you just described as impending problems of this team,are mostly on the Quarterback.Who knows,maybe the new head coach can get more from Andy.The Quarterback is a huge part of any team.That’s why they make the big bucks.

Organizational culture is set by upper management. Not a head coach.

Our upper management allowed a coach 15 years to try to win a playoff game. NO other NFL Team would give a coach that long. Then after said coach loses his 7th playoff game...he gets 3 more years!

The real question is, can Zac Taylor win in spite of management?

(03-31-2019, 05:23 PM)bengaloo Wrote: To me that is the only question at this point. He can sign every All Pro FA on the market, but it wont get us over the hump without a culture change. We have All Pro's. We've had top 10 offenses and top 10 defenses. We've been in playoff games and we've even been in a situation where all we had to do was run the clock out to win a playoff game. Nothing to show for it. A culture change, imo is needed way above any FA we could possibly get. Thats why I have a wait and see attitude and dont care who we sign at this point. Let see what he can get out of what we got.

Agreed

(03-31-2019, 06:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Organizational culture is set by upper management. Not a head coach.

Our upper management allowed a coach 15 years to try to win a playoff game. NO other NFL Team would give a coach that long. Then after said coach loses his 7th playoff game...he gets 3 more years!

The real question is, can Zac Taylor win in spite of management?

Yep

(03-31-2019, 05:43 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: To me, all those playoff losses, the prime time meltdowns, getting owned by Pittsburgh all fall on poor coaching (IE Marvin Lewis).

Now granted, the bengals are owned and managed by incompetent nitwits. But you can’t argue with the fact that this team has been to the playoffs 7 times and won the AFC North 3 times. All despite this horrific front office (maybe they got out of their own way just enough for small amounts of success to happen, I don’t know).

Anyway, we’ve had super bowl contending teams with this same front office. It came down to poor coaching when it counts. Point being, I believe this team can win it all even with the Brown Family Circus calling the shots. It all comes down to Zac: his roster, his overall game management, etc.

Yep

We all saw Marvin on the sidelines with the deer in the headlights gaze. It's going to take a HC taking the bull by the horns on the sidelines and holding it together.

(03-31-2019, 04:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the $64 question

Let's face it that's the true hurdle he has to clear. It's not who the position coaches are, it's not what players he gets in free agency, it's not who he drafts, it's not what offense he runs.

This team has a history of losing nearly three decades long, even in the playoff seasons we were one and done all 7 times ! We fold up under the lights nearly every time, rarely do we beat the good teams in the league when we need it most. We implode at the slightest sign of adversity way more often than not. The Steelers have owned us for far to long now. And the list goes on.

Can he get that culture turned around ? Can he win with the leagues worst GM ? Can he get this team to focus on team and not I ? Can he get this team to stay steady under pressure, can he get them to buy in ? Can he get them to not listen to the noise against Pittsburgh ?

That's his biggest test of all

No question that is the question. All i know is it was a start, cleaning house and it needed to be done badly. Not liking what that Troy dude said the other day and i hope Zac will have more pull cause he will have to win in spite of idioticy it seems. I think Zac is going about it the right way, FA went not as i hoped and we did much less than i expected to help out the new HC.

I know he said he liked the Free Agency that we did but i have a sneaking feeling he is just saying the right things.

We will only know this once the season comes around if there is a different air around here.

The Marv stink is gone and i like it. We will see if Taylor can get rid of the bad Brown and Blackburn stink.

Will not be easy, but in the end it comes down to the coaches and players and working with what they got. It is possible now.

(03-31-2019, 06:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No question that is the question. All i know is it was a start, cleaning house and it needed to be done badly. Not liking what that Troy dude said the other day and i hope Zac will have more pull cause he will have to win in spite of idioticy it seems. I think Zac is going about it the right way, FA went not as i hoped and we did much less than i expected to help out the new HC.

I know he said he liked the Free Agency that we did but i have a sneaking feeling he is just saying the right things.

We will only know this once the season comes around if there is a different air around here.

The Marv stink is gone and i like it. We will see if Taylor can get rid of the bad Brown and Blackburn stink.

Will not be easy, but in the end it comes down to the coaches and players and working with what they got. It is possible now.

Something has to break the chain

(03-31-2019, 06:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Organizational culture is set by upper management. Not a head coach.

Our upper management allowed a coach 15 years to try to win a playoff game. NO other NFL Team would give a coach that long. Then after said coach loses his 7th playoff game...he gets 3 more years!

The real question is, can Zac Taylor win in spite of management?

Every time I read one of your posts, I keep getting sucked into reading the "Please be charitable...". Every time... Without fail.

You've still got Christmas lights up outside of your place... Don't ya???

To the OP... Most of us that aren't UC fans never heard of the guy before January. Most of us don't know a damn thing about him. It's hard to guess if he can change anything. I already see some of us turning on him for some fairly silly reasons though.

I want to see if he plays the best players or the highest paid players. To me that is what has held this team back for the previous years.

(03-31-2019, 07:17 PM)jason Wrote: To the OP... Most of us that aren't UC fans never heard of the guy before January. Most of us don't know a damn thing about him. It's hard to guess if he can change anything. I already see some of us turning on him for some fairly silly reasons though.

It is indeed

He has a daunting task ahead of him

(03-31-2019, 07:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It is indeed

He has a daunting task ahead of him

Hell... I do like his enthusiasm though.

If the veterans on this team buy into him? Consider the culture changed.

I hate to over simplify it like that, but it's the truth. If Andy, AJ, Geno and Carlos buy into what Coach Taylor is selling, the rest will read it as Gospel.

(03-31-2019, 07:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If the veterans on this team buy into him?  Consider the culture changed.

I hate to over simplify it like that, but it's the truth.  If Andy, AJ, Geno and Carlos buy into what Coach Taylor is selling, the rest will read it as Gospel.

Yep. I think IF we can beat the Steelers twice too. Or start out winning some big primetime games...that goes a long way.

IF we don't do those things, well it becomes much harder. The best time to change it is from the start.

Ehh, maybe. The fact that he's been very complimentary of Mike Brown thus far has me skeptical that he can or will change the culture, though. How much can you expect a guy who thinks Mike Brown wants to win more than anyone to change things?

I know, it's just talk and he can't rake his boss over the coals or anything, but stating that everything is great is hardly the first step towards fixing a problem.

(03-31-2019, 08:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, maybe.  The fact that he's been very complimentary of Mike Brown thus far has me skeptical that he can or will change the culture, though.  How much can you expect a guy who thinks Mike Brown wants to win more than anyone to change things?

I know, it's just talk and he can't rake his boss over the coals or anything, but stating that everything is great is hardly the first step towards fixing a problem.

How do you know that's not just coach speak for "I've got free reign to do what I want to make this team better"?