(04-04-2019, 10:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How many teams in the NFL do you think are trying to succeed?

Every single one. How many teams would re-up a coach after 15 years of data and back-to-back losing seasons?

(04-05-2019, 09:05 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Every single one. How many teams would re-up a coach after 15 years of data and back-to-back losing seasons?

So if every single team except the Bengals are trying to win why have the Bengals outperformed a majority of those teams over the least decade.

Are they just so gifted that they can beat these teams without even trying?

(04-05-2019, 12:54 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 31

So the Bengals front office is just so smart that they can outperform half of the league without even trying.

That is a pretty incredible claim.

(04-05-2019, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So if every single team except the Bengals are trying to win why have the Bengals outperformed a majority of those teams over the least decade.

Are they just so gifted that they can beat these teams without even trying?

I answered your question already. Your turn to answer mine. 

(04-05-2019, 12:30 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I answered your question already. Your turn to answer mine. 

31

(04-05-2019, 02:29 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: We've had players that can eak us into the playoffs.

My point is the areas of weakness were not addressed and the coaches and FO offered up bullshit reasons for not doing anything.

Get with the program Fred.

You know as well as I do that they didn't do enough and thought they'd roll with what they had.

Bad moves and being sluggish to doing anything about it has been the Achilles to this team for quite some time.

(04-05-2019, 06:45 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Trying to make us believe that players like Ced O., Fisher, Nickerson, Bodine, and now Bobby Hart are their best options for starters and that no one is out there that can supplant them are great examples of pure laziness and ineptitude.

Guys like Maualuga, who weren't the worst, but held starting jobs and kept being automatically handed contracts. They really didn't even try. Sometimes they would sign players like that quickly even when they weren't highly desirable as free agents.

Look no one expects us to have upper tier guys at every level but damn it all to hell at least try to improve.

This franchise has really had serious issues at upgrading the offensive line and finding quality linebackers. Preston Brown is a wait and see because of his injury. Burfict is basically a flash in the pan for us. Outside of that linebackers have been straight up dreadful consistently.

(04-05-2019, 08:35 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Hey why don't I just mention one.  The most important one.

Since you brought up our division.

Pittsburgh Steelers.

Didn't have to go to far for that one now did I?

Have they been having PR issues lately and trying real hard to appease their franchise QB?  Sure.

Regardless if they have a down year they still don't look pathetic.

They actually stake value in the trenches.

We'd all be liars if we said that there wasn't ownership envy for our team's most hated rival.

Now I know the lawyer in you will want to try to cling onto them not winning big recently, but hey let's just ignore a decade and more of tradition.

There are quite a few teams that use Free Agency successfully to benefit them.

Are you saying this team of ours has done their diligence to address problems?

Or are you quite content with their "trying" like signing Eric Winston that was retired and had no league interest?

Just curious... ?

We will see if Fred gets back to your posts Rocker...

(04-05-2019, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 31

So why is he still unemployed?

(04-05-2019, 08:35 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Or are you quite content with their "trying" like signing Eric Winston that was retired and had no league interest?

Just curious... ?

Why are you ignoring the fact that last year we traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league and used a first round pick on the O-line.

Just curious.... ?

(04-05-2019, 08:35 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Hey why don't I just mention one.  The most important one.

Since you brought up our division.

Pittsburgh Steelers.

So you can only think of one team that is reasonably run and it is the one that just missed the playoffs and then lost two All-Pros?

(04-05-2019, 01:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: So why is he still unemployed?

I answered your question so your turn to answer mine.

How have the Bengals been able to outperform half the league over the last decade without even trying?  Are they just that brilliant?

(04-05-2019, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I answered your question so your turn to answer mine.

How have the Bengals been able to outperform half the league over the last decade without even trying?  Are they just that brilliant?

As I noted in my first reply, I don't think they don't try. I think they want to win, but are limited in their potential because of their fear of failure. They know how to run a football franchise, as is evident with their cap management skills and philosophy of drafting and developing. That makes them a formidable ran franchise. 

(04-05-2019, 01:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why are you ignoring the fact that last year we traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league and used a first round pick on the O-line.

Just curious.... ?

We were talking about those glorious seasons when improving the line and adding quality depth did not happen.

So I'll answer your question though.

They screwed the pooch on Whitworth and did not retain Zeitler.

Had a poor offensive line coach that either chose terrible players or were handed to him.  

Had crap centers for many years(which is the most important position for continuity)and had to transition Hopkins to not only play there but to start.

All of those lead to trading for Glen and picking the Remington award winning center.

They tried to improve but yet again it was some blunders that left them in such a debacle in the first place.

They still lack major depth in the line.

Trying to play catch up for the mistakes and lack of attention for addressing.

I guess it would be easier to say they're stupid instead of "not trying".

Better??

(04-05-2019, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So the Bengals front office is just so smart that they can outperform half of the league without even trying.

That is a pretty incredible claim.

Why are you using only regular season record to determine success? 

I'm pretty sure the Bengals have a better regular season record than the Giants over the last 10 years.

Do you think Giants fans would trade their last 10 years for ours?

(04-05-2019, 02:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why are you using only regular season record to determine success? 

I'm pretty sure the Bengals have a better regular season record than the Giants over the last 10 years.

Do you think Giants fans would trade their last 10 years for ours?

We can look at Championships if you want.  Bengals are tied for 9th in the league in Super Bowl victories over the last decade.

(04-05-2019, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We can look at Championships if you want.  Bengals are tied for 9th in the league in Super Bowl victories over the last decade.

Hmm..no I was thinking about looking at everything. Perhaps compiling a points system that would take regular season, playoffs and championships into account. If the Bengals are in the 12-14 range as far as regular season wins are concerned, I imagine putting any weight on playoff wins or championships is only going to pull them down further. 

Mind you, I do not think the Bengals are the worst team in the league during that cherry picked time frame, but I imagine they'd be somewhere around 20th. I've made such a grading system before, but you took issue with where the Bengals ranked. 

(04-05-2019, 04:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  If the Bengals are in the 12-14 range as far as regular season wins are concerned, I imagine putting any weight on playoff wins or championships is only going to pull them down further. 

I don't think so.  Many of the teams that won one or two playoff games (with zero championships) had much worse records overall than the Bengals.

But I can imagine how you would skew the points system.  For example the Jets lost 17 more games than the Bengals and had half as many winning seasons, but you would probably have them ahead of the Bengal because they won a couple of playoff games.

So, is Jordan Mills a Bengal, yet?

(04-05-2019, 05:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, is Jordan Mills a Bengal, yet?

I’d like to know the same, he can’t be any worse than hart. That one will sting for a while. It’s sad when you have more faith in a guy you haven’t seen any idea who he is not see him play but trust him over Hart

(04-05-2019, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think so.  Many of the teams that won one or two playoff games (with zero championships) had much worse records overall than the Bengals.

But I can imagine how you would skew the points system.  For example the Jets lost 17 more games than the Bengals and had half as many winning seasons, but you would probably have them ahead of the Bengal because they won a couple of playoff games.

See, I disagree. Some of the teams with worse records than the Bengals also won several playoff games and got way closer to a Super Bowl than we have. We'd have to create a system to find out who is right.

I could see how you would skew a system to favor regular season wins over all else. For example, the Giants have 12 fewer regular season wins than the Bengals, but also a Super Bowl win. You'd probably also put the Rams below the Bengals, despite their recent success and SB run. You'd probably do the same with the 49ers and Panthers, who have both made it to a SB despite having a worse regular season record than the Bengals over the last 10 years.

(04-05-2019, 06:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: See, I disagree. Some of the teams with worse records than the Bengals also won several playoff games and got way closer to a Super Bowl than we have. We'd have to create a system to find out who is right.

I could see how you would skew a system to favor regular season wins over all else. For example, the Giants have 12 fewer regular season wins than the Bengals, but also a Super Bowl win. You'd probably also put the Rams below the Bengals, despite their recent success and SB run. You'd probably do the same with the 49ers and Panthers, who have both made it to a SB despite having a worse regular season record than the Bengals over the last 10 years.

I could not put the Bengals behind a team that win a Super Bowl like the Giants, but when you look at the entire decade I'd have the Bengals ahead of the Rams.  In 10 years the Rams had a losing record 8 times and won 2 playoff games.  That is horrible.