(04-08-2019, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.

2016 Green and Eifert were both out with injury yet Dalton had 4200+ yds and a 92 passer rating.

In 2013 when Tom Brady was missing Gronk and had no other decent receivers his passer rating was lower than Dalton's.

92 is basically below average in today's NFL. Definitely not good enough to win anything of substance.

and, in the games that Green was out, he had a rating of 86.65.

That would have been good for 27th in the league this year. The only players that would be better than are Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles and 3 rookie QBs.

In 2016, that would have been good for 22nd in the league.

And with Tom Brady, his QB rating was 87.3, but his QBR was 63.1, which is higher than every single Dalton year except 2015.

So you cherry picked Tom's worst season (not including his 2008 season where he threw 11 passes) and it was still better than every single Dalton season except his best.

What point were you trying to make with that comment?

We got rid of Burfict, we are drafting a WILL in the 1st round. Probably Devin Bush....

I am a Dalton fan but would have no problem with the Bengals taking Dwayne Haskins at #11. Any team taking a QB above us that does not select him are fools. He is a special talent and is going to be an outstanding QB in the NFL. Not to mention he is a quality young man.

I believe Denver takes Locke because Elway sees much of himself in him. They wont take Murray because of his height. I just hope Murray is off the boards for the Bengals so that it is not even a discussion that has to take place.

(04-08-2019, 02:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We got rid of Burfict, we are drafting a WILL in the 1st round. Probably Devin Bush....

Sure hope not. We got rid of Burfict because he was fat and out of shape last season and did not appear to care about changing it. When he is playing at a high level it is much easier to put up with his antics.

We have young players on this roster that would be a good fit at WLB and would like to see them get a shot at it with good coaching. I believe the role of the modern day LB had passed Haslett by. These kids seemed to decline in play under him rather than grow. I would also prefer to see us take Wilson in the second round as he is probably going to be the best LB to come out of this class. Don't care for either of the Devins.

(04-08-2019, 01:21 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Nobody, and I do mean nobody, is going to give up a monster trade for any QB in this draft.

The only one that I've heard smoke around is Oakland and Kyler Murray.  If that's the case (and Arizona does't really want him) the Raiders are going to stay put.  The Jets and the 49ers aren't going QB and I don't see anyone else that would move up for him,

Oh, I agree.  It is very unlikely to happen.  But Arizona is giving it their best effort, why not?   My dream would be that Kyler falls to the Bengals and we become an exciting team for the first time in too many years to count. 

And unlike many I really like Haskins as well. He has an arm Dalton only dreams of. He made continuous improvement over the season and would be way more mobile than BigBen ever was who seemed to do okay.

(04-08-2019, 02:37 PM)yang Wrote:  My dream would be that Kyler falls to the Bengals and we become an exciting team for the first time in too many years to count. 

I must say that based on most of your previous posts I am not surprised that you can not count to 4.

(04-08-2019, 02:28 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 92 is basically below average in today's NFL. Definitely not good enough to win anything of substance.

and, in the games that Green was out, he had a rating of 86.65.

That would have been good for 27th in the league this year. The only players that would be better than are Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles and 3 rookie QBs.

In 2016, that would have been good for 22nd in the league.

And with Tom Brady, his QB rating was 87.3, but his QBR was 63.1, which is higher than every single Dalton year except 2015.

So you cherry picked Tom's worst season (not including his 2008 season where he threw 11 passes) and it was still better than every single Dalton season except his best.

What point were you trying to make with that comment?

If Brady does not need talent around him then why was his passer rating lower than Dalton's the year he had no receivers?  Because suddenly passer rating doesn't count when Brady loses his receivers?

Take away their two top receivers and every QB will see his numbers drop.  

(04-08-2019, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Brady does not need talent around him then why was his passer rating lower than Dalton's the year he had no receivers?  Because suddenly passer rating doesn't count when Brady loses his receivers?

Take away their two top receivers and every QB will see his numbers drop.  

Yea...And Dalton went from an average QB to a bad QB when he lost his top two receivers.

I don't think we're discussing the same things.

(04-08-2019, 03:40 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea...And Dalton went from an average QB to a bad QB when he lost his top two receivers.

I don't think we're discussing the same things.

Yes we are discussing the same thing.  


Over the last 7 weeks of the 2016 season when Dalton was missing his top 2 receivers he ranked 15th in passing yards and 17th in passer rating.  That is not "bad".  In fact it is probably better than most QBs in the league would have been able to manage with a running game that ranked 22nd in yards and 28th in yards per carry.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&player_id_hint=&player_id_select=&player_id=&idx=&year_min=2016&year_max=2016&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=&age_max=&pos%5B%5D=QB&pos%5B%5D=WR&pos%5B%5D=RB&pos%5B%5D=TE&pos%5B%5D=OL&pos%5B%5D=DL&pos%5B%5D=LB&pos%5B%5D=DB&is_starter=E&game_type=R&playoff_round=&league_id=&team_id=&opp_id=&career_game_num_min=1&career_game_num_max=400&qb_start_num_min=1&qb_start_num_max=400&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=11&week_num_max=17&stadium_id=&game_day_of_week=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&time_zone=&handedness=&qb_started=&is_active=&is_hof=&c1stat=pass_att&c1comp=gt&c1val=100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c5val=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pass_td

(04-08-2019, 12:55 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Not a bunch. We all want White but I see no way he drops to us.

And folks, I did not write this post to advocate taking a QB at 11. I don't necessarily think that's the right move, although I do want Grier in RD 2. 

Just reading the tea leaves a bit. 

(04-08-2019, 01:25 PM)Synric Wrote: Will Grier at 42 would be a perfect pick for the Bengals...

I also like the idea of Grier in round 2. He is probably my favorite QB prospect in this class. Not as physically gifted as the top guys but could end up being a better pro.

(04-08-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes we are discussing the same thing.  Over the last 7 weeks of the 2016 season when Dalton was missing his top 2 receivers he ranked 15th in passing yards and 17th in passer rating.  That is not "bad".  In fact it is probably better than most QBs in the league would have been able to manage with a running game that ranked 22nd in yards and 28th in yards per carry.

If you don't think a QB rating of 86 is bad, then we are definitely discussing different things.

(04-08-2019, 04:02 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If you don't think a QB rating of 86 is bad, then we are definitely discussing different things.

If you think 17th in the league in passer rating is "bad" then you are just getting desperate with your spin.  Especially when that was better than Russell Wilson, Mathew Stafford, Phillip Rivers, and Eli Manning.

I am not saying that is good, but it is way above "bad".  Especially for a QB with a weak running game and missing his top 2 receivers.

(04-08-2019, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you think 17th in the league in passer rating is "bad" then you are just getting desperate with your spin.

I am not saying that is good, but it is way above "bad".  Especially for a QB with a weak running game and missing his top 2 receivers.

I don't really have a spin. If you would like to substitute when I said "bad" with "not good enough," that is not an issue for me.

If your goal is to go 8-8, then Andy Dalton wasn't "bad."

If you want to be 17th in the league, then Andy Dalton wasn't "bad." His entire 2016 season he ended at 17th, so maybe he's just "not good enough" even with his top receivers.

If you want to actually win something, though, I would consider being in the bottom half of the league would and should be considered "bad."

(04-08-2019, 11:08 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I've been reading a lot of draft reports.

Currently, WAS appears to be the favorite to land Rosen. This will probably change 189 times before an actual move is made, and it really doesn't matter unless the team who acquires him is CIN. Point is, if he is dealt, it removes one entry from the list of teams in the market for a QB.

So let's examine who could or should be considering QB in the 1st.

ARI - obviously all in on Murray
NYG - they should have done this 2 years ago but amazingly it's no sure thing they go QB with either 1st rd pick
DEN - This franchise desperately needs a QB and recent news has them zeroing in on Lock
MIA - Possibly the most qb-needy team in the draft
WAS - Discussed briefly above; they would no longer be here if the Rosen deal consummates
Other possibilities: OAK, GB, TB

So let's take WAS off the board for the time being and assume they trade for Rosen.

CIN picks at 11, 1 spot behind DEN, 5 spots behind NYG's 1st and 6 spots ahead of NYG's 2nd.
MIA picks at 13.

If GB/TB/OAK/Wildcard decide to go QB it probably won't be in the first round.

So with Murray off the board at 1 and assuming DEN takes Lock at 10 (which is a hell of an assumption), we're left with Haskins unless NYG takes him at 6, which no one seems to think will happen. Some noise out there that Haskins is slipping and may go 4th out of the 4 projected 1st round QBs (Murray/Lock/Jones/Haskins).

It's not outrageous to think that MIA or NYG (with their 2nd pick) could try to trade up with us to assure themselves of landing Haskins/Lock/possibly even Jones. If they don't trade up with us, they certainly could with someone else.

If one of those teams trades up and all the teams who could be looking QB draft that way, we'd still be looking at one of Jones/Haskins/Lock at 11, depending on which guys the other teams choose. That's worst case, and I don't think Jones is worthy of the 11th pick, but that's not the point of this post.

If more than one team trades ahead of us and a truly remarkable run on QBs occurs, taking all the 1st round-types off the board, we'd have some good options in the 2nd - most notably, my guy Will Grier.

However, if most of the prevailing mocks are correct, neither MIA nor NYG will address QB in the first. In a truly crazy world, DEN could punt with their pick as well, leaving us with 3 options at 11. If DEN takes Lock, we'd still be staring at Haskins and Jones.

I don't think Devin White will be there at 11. Jawaan Taylor is probably the best OL in the draft, and he'll be gone before we pick. Both Iowa TEs are off the board as we re-signed Eifert. If the non-qb route is chosen by the teams ahead of us or if someone trades up for someone other than a QB, players at other positions of need could be scooped up.

So we will likely have legit QB options staring us in the face with both our 1st and 2nd round picks. It's possible that we could have a choice of all 3 (Jones, Lock, Haskins) at 11 and I don't think we let that opportunity pass.

Even if we don't take one of them we'll still likely have Grier or another good QB waiting in the 2nd (Ryan Findley, possibly Jarret Stidham or they fall in love with that oaf from Buffalo).

Lot of mocks are trending this way for us as well.

If all those teams you say are going QB White will be there and he will be the pick.

Broncos are the one team i am concerned will take White ahead of us but if they go QB we will get White. It is a bad Draft for QB's, we should wait till next year or grab Grier, Stidham or McSorely in the mid rounds if we want a decent backup to Dalton.

(04-08-2019, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If all those teams you say are going QB White will be there and he will be the pick.

Broncos are the one team i am concerned will take White ahead of us but if they go QB we will get White. It is a bad Draft for QB's, we should wait till next year or grab Grier, Stidham or McSorely in the mid rounds if we want a decent backup to Dalton.

Not necessarily. TB is the one most commonly mocked to pick White. And as we were so politely reminded, mock drafts don't mean a bunch.

But if all the teams in front of us who *might* go QB in fact do so, we'd still be a longshot for White. That would be DEN, NYG, ARI and TB. 

The Bills or Lions would likely snatch him if he was available. 

Here is yet another mock that has Cincy going QB at 11. These are becoming the majority. Which leads me to believe my premise is flawed.

11. CINCINNATI BENGALS - QB DWAYNE HASKINS, OHIO STATE
New eyeballs and potentially new decision makers mean a potential switch at quarterback in the hope of exiting quarterback purgatory. Building around a (good) passer on a rookie deal can instantly create a window to win.

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/mock-draft/mock-draft-two-weeks-away

(04-08-2019, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Brady does not need talent around him then why was his passer rating lower than Dalton's the year he had no receivers?  Because suddenly passer rating doesn't count when Brady loses his receivers?

Take away their two top receivers and every QB will see his numbers drop.  

Please never include Dalton and Brady in the sane sentence again. Thank you.

(04-08-2019, 01:25 PM)Synric Wrote: Will Grier at 42 would be a perfect pick for the Bengals...

Not for the people who don't like Dalton.

He's Dalton 2.0.

We'll be back to debating arm strength etc.

(04-08-2019, 04:21 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Not necessarily. TB is the one most commonly mocked to pick White. And as we were so politely reminded, mock drafts don't mean a bunch.

But if all the teams in front of us who *might* go QB in fact do so, we'd still be a longshot for White. That would be DEN, NYG, ARI and TB. 

The Bills or Lions would likely snatch him if he was available. 

Here is yet another mock that has Cincy going QB at 11. These are becoming the majority. Which leads me to believe my premise is flawed.

11. CINCINNATI BENGALS - QB DWAYNE HASKINS, OHIO STATE
New eyeballs and potentially new decision makers mean a potential switch at quarterback in the hope of exiting quarterback purgatory. Building around a (good) passer on a rookie deal can instantly create a window to win.

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/mock-draft/mock-draft-two-weeks-away

Thinking Tampa will want to replace McCoy with Oliver more than getting a Linebacker.

Broncos are the team that worries me a bit but they might go QB over LB too.

If we go QB early, i like Murray or Lock better than Haskins anyways, cause you are right, if it is becoming the majority and Kiper says we are taking a QB, i highly doubt we are lol

(04-08-2019, 04:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: Not for the people who don't like Dalton.

He's Dalton 2.0.

We'll be back to debating arm strength etc.

Grier is not Dalton 2.0. Grier has a stronger arm and is 3x more accurate as we sit and type (in other words, right now) than Dalton ever was. 

(04-08-2019, 04:36 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Please never include Dalton and Brady in the sane sentence again.  Thank you.

It's awfully hard to ignore that guy when others continue to quote his posts.