(04-09-2019, 10:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Although I disagree about Haskins being a media-generated hype...the kid was amazing although he only played one year.  Here he could sit for two years if needed and learn the game.  Look at who else sat:  Brady, Rodgers,  and Brees.  

Maybe also get the Jet's 2nd rounder?  I think everyone is looking too much at what they see in AJ vs. what the team will not be able to afford if Dalton and Green reach new contracts.  

I don't think I'm doing that. I think I'm trying to determine his actual worth and not try to ship him off for less than what his value is just to try and get something for him before FA hits.

(04-09-2019, 08:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hell no. This team sucks without AJ.

'Member when everyone said we would beat the Colts in the playoffs because AJ was holding us back. I 'member.  

I wouldn't totally be against the idea. I mean, when I first read it, my knee jerk reaction was WTF? But then when you think about it, it could pay off if done right. AJ has had some injury issues the last few seasons. It's a little alarming, but not known if he will continue to have these issues going forward. We can only hope not. But if we were going to get real value from him, now would be the time to do it. I would demand a lot more than just a 1st round draft pick though. Landing a guy with AJ's talent in the draft and that player being able to play at AJ's level would be extremely rare. So if we were to trade, we would have to get a lot in return.

AJ is 30 years old (will be 31 in July) and is coming off of surgery for torn ligaments in his toe. His durability going forward is a little concerning.

The Bengals will likely give AJ & Andy a year or two more to be together along with their other aging Stars like Geno & Carlos.

AJ could still have some trade value when he is 32 should the Bengals want to pursue a move like you suggest later.

Maybe use AJ later in a bid to go up to get Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence a few years from now (unless the Bengals have tanked so far by then that they hold the #1 overall pick)

Giving their aging Stars some more time together isn't a bad option and I would also remain open to a Strategic Trade of one or more of these aging Stars over the next few seasons especially if they are not winning.

Free up money and get younger but be very Strategic about it and not if we are winning.

(04-09-2019, 11:51 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: 'Member when everyone said we would beat the Colts in the playoffs because AJ was holding us back. I 'member.  

Damn.....I must have mentally blocked that one out....glad I did!

(04-09-2019, 09:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.

Brady makes almost exactly what Dalton does, and playoff QBs last year include Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, and Russell Wilson.  Recent Super Bowl QBs include Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, and  Peyton Manning.

Ah someone forgot to inform you Peyton Manning is retired.


That aside all those QBs are way better than AD so why are we paying him MVP/SB winner money.

(04-09-2019, 10:01 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: The trade value chart I saw has the drop from #3 to #11 worth the 17th pick. Now if the scenario was Green for the 17th pick and Darron Lee, I would absolutely make that trade. Heck, I'd also make the original trade and would try like crazy to trade back to someone wanting to jump Oakland for a QB or just draft the stud D lineman.

This is actually a better idea, get Lee and bolster the defense with Josh Allen or Devin White and maybe you make a case for trading up and walking away from Green.

I love AJ and everything he stands for, so personally I hate the thought.  That said, whatever makes the team better is what the management should do.  

I still stand behind NOT drafting a QB first round.  Keep Andy, protect him and he's one of the best.

(04-09-2019, 12:21 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I wouldn't totally be against the idea. I mean, when I first read it, my knee jerk reaction was WTF? But then when you think about it, it could pay off if done right. AJ has had some injury issues the last few seasons. It's a little alarming, but not known if he will continue to have these issues going forward. We can only hope not. But if we were going to get real value from him, now would be the time to do it. I would demand a lot more than just a 1st round draft pick though. Landing a guy with AJ's talent in the draft and that player being able to play at AJ's level would be extremely rare. So if we were to trade, we would have to get a lot in return.

This would be a big, big move and would require a lot of right moves to make it work out for the Bengals. Can anyone really expect this front office, led by Mike Brown, to make so many right moves?

Even if we got a lot in return what would Mikey boy do with that lot? Fall in love with one year wonders and condemn the franchise for years to come? He's done it before.

I'd rather ride with AJ and add as much talent as we can in the draft and see what Taylor can do with Dalton and the offense. We got a preview of this team without AJ last season. The WR corp became Boyd and a bunch of guys who played like they shouldn't be starting anywhere in the league.

 

The obvious best course would be to trade picks for Lee and still take a LB high. The resulting LB influx would be a big boost to the defense.

(04-09-2019, 11:51 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: 'Member when everyone said we would beat the Colts in the playoffs because AJ was holding us back. I 'member.  

(04-09-2019, 01:06 PM)BengalChris Wrote: This would be a big, big move and would require a lot of right moves to make it work out for the Bengals. Can anyone really expect this front office, led by Mike Brown, to make so many right moves?

Even if we got a lot in return what would Mikey boy do with that lot? Fall in love with one year wonders and condemn the franchise for years to come? He's done it before.

I'd rather ride with AJ and add as much talent as we can in the draft and see what Taylor can do with Dalton and the offense. We got a preview of this team without AJ last season. The WR corp became Boyd and a bunch of guys who played like they shouldn't be starting anywhere in the league.

 

This totally ^

I'm not convinced they'd even know what to do for trading AJ.

Probably waste picks and not spend money elsewhere.

You just never know.

This is a move that I really dislike. First off, I don't think Lee has much trade value at all. He might be better than what we have, but he's not a guy we should start thinking about moving one of the franchise's all-time best players for. I don't think that a move like that plus a pick swap does much for this team at all. Probably makes it worse, to be honest.

As for Haskins, I don't hate him. I also don't see him as a guy I'd bail assets to acquire. If he fell to 11 and they like him, then I'm okay with pulling the trigger and drafting him. Otherwise, I'll keep AJ, draft a linebacker in 1 or 2 (and probably another in 3,4, or 5), and wait to see how we feel about the QB position this time next year.

Also, having cap room doesn't excite me with this team. They've more than proven that having cap doesn't equate to going out and acquiring talent to win sooner.

(04-09-2019, 02:39 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: This totally ^

I'm not convinced they'd even know what to do for trading AJ.

Probably waste picks and not spend money elsewhere.

You just never know.

Yeah, just because the team might end up with $30M in extra cap space next season doesn't mean Mike Brown would actually use it to improve the team. We know how he feels about free agency, to him it's an evil used to harm the Bengals rather than a tool that can be used to help them. He just looks at it backwards. Plus, what would he do with an extra $30M in cap space next season? He's just as likely to pocket half of it and rollover the other half to 2021. The team would be doomed in that scenario.

Why do some people think AJ and AD are the problem? We either need to go OL or LB to fix the REAL problems with this team. Now that Boyd has emerged, a lot of pressure will be off AJ, and the pressure would still be on Dalton as he's running for his life.

The problem I have with this scenario is that Haskins may be there at 11. If not, the Bengals can grab Jones in round 2 or Stidham in round 3-4. Bengals can get Wilkins a stud DT next to Geno, or Taylor to be RT for next 10 years, or maybe White or Hockenson TE. I say no.

AJ is getting older. He is one of the good guys. I do think the Bengals move on from him. I cannot see them extending Green or Dalton contracts given the new coaching staff.

uh no.anybody remember this,offense without AJ?
to reach the playoffs,you need a offense that can score 24 pts a game a game and up on average.
A defense can allow 20 a game and still reach the playoffs.
but my offense cant average 19 to 22 a game expect to win 10 games.
the Bengals need sll the ioffensive firepower it can find.
AJ impacts this offense more than other WR does for his team.

(04-09-2019, 12:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ah someone forgot to inform you Peyton Manning is retired.

Doesn't change the fact that he is a recent Super Bowl winning QB who was not on a rookie deal.

(04-09-2019, 12:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: That aside all those QBs are way better than AD so why are we paying him MVP/SB winner money.

Because all good QB s get paid well in the NFL.  Dalton will be the 16th highest paid QB in 2019.

(04-09-2019, 11:05 AM)Ravage Wrote: That's a fair counterpoint, however: Lamar Jackson was on a team that at the time still had Flacco on the roster, and thus his bloated contract. So that specific example of a team winning with a young QB because they're using less cap-space at the QB position is invalid.

Let's see how they fare without Flacco's contract this year.  Although losing Mosely will be costly.

I would imagine the Ravens are probably interested in both Devins as well.

(04-09-2019, 11:19 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: You kind of nailed my concern with Haskins, he only played one year. The odds of a large 2nd contract go down significantly with only one year of college experience. What also scares me is that there was a 4-5 game span in the middle of the season where he was not a very good QB. He still had the NFL arm strength, but he played very tentatively, danced in the pocket, and look like he was more concerned about not getting injured than playing for the team. It wasn't until the Maryland game that he started playing to win and put his body on the line.

The Jets only have 6 picks this year and no 2nd rounder.

Good point about their picks.  Maybe next year's 2nd rounder?  

And don't forget, Trubisky looked pretty damn good this year and he only started one year in college.  So did Kyler Murray for that matter.  

(04-09-2019, 12:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ah someone forgot to inform you Peyton Manning is retired.


That aside all those QBs are way better than AD so why are we paying him MVP/SB winner money.

Is he better than Kirk Cousins?  I would argue yes, and Cousins just set the bar at nearly $30 million per year.