We didn't sign a free agent LBer besides internal P. Brown. We cut V. Burfict.

Can they really not take a LBer in the first round ? From what I've read and been told there's a fairly steep drop in talent from the top few players to the next tier.

Can they really go into next season with Vigil, Brown, and a bunch of projects/question marks ?

(04-07-2019, 08:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We didn't sign a free agent LBer besides internal P. Brown. We cut V. Burfict.

Can they really not take a LBer in the first round ? From what I've read and been told there's a fairly steep drop in talent from the top few players to the next tier.

Can they really go into next season with Vigil, Brown, and a bunch of projects/question marks ?

Is there that steep of a drop from Bush to Wilson/Joseph?  I'm not so sure.  Is it steep enough that you pass on a higher rater player to reach for a need?  That's the question.  

Considering the current state of the Bengals LB corps, which you mentioned, the guys available in round 2 would still be big upgrades to anything on this roster, and almost certainly start immediately at WLB.

(04-07-2019, 08:30 PM)samhain Wrote: Is there that steep of a drop from Bush to Wilson/Joseph?  I'm not so sure.  Is it steep enough that you pass on a higher rater player to reach for a need?  That's the question.  

Considering the current state of the Bengals LB corps, which you mentioned, the guys available in round 2 would still be big upgrades to anything on this roster, and almost certainly start immediately at WLB.

I kind of wonder about the optics of this, though. The team gets killed for never addressing LB in the 1st round, for never putting an emphasis on the position. You know that is going to be the predominant story if they put it off again, no matter who they would grab in the second or third.

Granted I don't think this should determine their draft strategy or anything, but you *know* they'll get killed locally if they pass on White or Bush.

In all honesty, this is one year where I'm really glad I don't have to make the decision lol.

(04-07-2019, 09:57 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I kind of wonder about the optics of this, though. The team gets killed for never addressing LB in the 1st round, for never putting an emphasis on the position. You know that is going to be the predominant story if they put it off again, no matter who they would grab in the second or third.

Granted I don't think this should determine their draft strategy or anything, but you *know* they'll get killed locally if they pass on White or Bush.

In all honesty, this is one year where I'm really glad I don't have to make the decision lol.

Oh, they'd absolutely get killed if White fell to them and they passed.  Idk about Bush.  It would depend on what they passed on him for and what they did in later rounds.  

(04-07-2019, 03:42 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not saying I agree but Geno is 31 years old so finding someone close to his ability that could spell him and not lose his presence on the line would sure be nice.

True but if it's another 1st rounder coming off injury "Simmons" who may be a top 5 pick otherwise, I'm going to lose my shit. Tierd of picking injury prone players in the first. We don't have that kind of luxury considering all the holes we have. Oh and it's kinda hard to live by the " we build through the draft" mantra if we keep missing on top picks. It's a crap shot as is, don't make it even less likely to find a all star when we keep picking injured players.

Sorry this was not directed at you, just kinda got on a rant cause I can totally see us picking Simmons.

NFL.com lists 9 combine participants who were graded 5.5("chance to become an NFL starter") or higher at the LB position.  Those players and their respective grades are:

Devin White - 6.24
Devin Bush - 6.09
Mack Wilson - 5.84
Germaine Pratt - 5.63
Jahlani Tavai - 5.55
David Long - 5.55
Cameron Smith - 5.54
Te'von Coney - 5.53
Vosean Joseph - 5.50

It's interesting to read their analysis and descriptions of the prospects past the top two.  You'll find some concerns with being productive but undersized, a bit too stiff, raw, not explosive, arrest history, etc.  Perhaps the supposed dearth of talent after the two Devins is a bit overblown.  I stumbled upon this little tidbit which I found interesting: "Personally, I would rather have David Long over Devin Bush for a round or two discount. They have about the same size but Long is more productive and maybe less prone to injury." -- NFC executive

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/LB?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL

(04-07-2019, 03:41 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I sure hope you are wrong. Mack Wilson will be the best linebacker to come out of this draft and I sure as hell hope we do not draft him at #11.

While I disagree with you about Mack Wilson being the best linebacker to come out of this draft, if you truly believe that you SHOULD take him at #11

(04-07-2019, 03:42 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not saying I agree but Geno is 31 years old so finding someone close to his ability that could spell him and not lose his presence on the line would sure be nice.

Completely agree with both of you about Oliver, but I don't see him being there.  That guy even got TRIPLE teamed from time to time, and still got pressure.  He's amazing.  With the talent on our line around him, I think he would have a great rookie season, but I think he will go much earlier.  

(04-07-2019, 07:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: LB is a big need, but that does not mean we are locked into LB first round.

At #11 you cant reach for a position.  By the time you get to the second and third round there is not as big of a difference between a guy ranked #42 and #52 as there would between a guy ranked #11 and #21.

We could go DL, OL, LB, TE, and maybe even QB with the #11 pick.  The only reason I don't include CB is because there does not seem to be one worth the #11 pick.

Do you feel that it is a reach for White or Bush at #11?  I don't.  That is why I think one of them is there and becomes the Bengal's first pick.  Don't get me wrong, I would rather have the OT Taylor over Bush or Ed Oliver over White, but I just don't see either of them being there, nor do I see Murray or Haskins.  

(04-07-2019, 07:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We paid Hart as a team desperate for tackles. We have two question marks followed up by nothing for depth at tackle.

I could understand a LB. But pick two from Preston Vigil Evans and Jefferson and they play the majority of our snaps. If Hart and Glenn miss any time. Who is it playing T?

Well, it is a very valid question and my first answer would be Boling, with a guy like Westerman filling his role at LG.  Beyond that, it is paper thin.  

But we DID lose two LBs for a portion of the season last year and they were on a pace to set a record (I think they did?) for ineptitude on defense.  Yes, getting rid of Austin and the ridiculous scheme he ran helped, but the LBs also returned somewhat healthy.  

Both are HUGE needs (save the don't draft for need speech, guys) and I see such a drop off from White/Bush to a guy like Mack Wilson that I don't see as big a drop from Taylor to Risner, Howard, and Cajuste that I would venture to say that LB in one (because one should be there) and OT in two is logical and likely.  

(04-07-2019, 07:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No doubt, it would be Kent Perkins, maybe Redmond if he could make the switch.

Troy really pizzed me off when he said we won't take a OT till round 3.

Actually makes me wonder if that was some sort of smoke and mirrors or something.

We need an OT just as much as a LB the more i think about it, we have a new LB coach and i don't think our LB's are lacking talent. Who knows what Tem can do with Vigil, Malik and Evans. I like his resume better than Turner's even if i think Turner will be better than Piano man, that isn't saying tons.

Is that what he actually said or did he say it as a hypothetical?  I would have to look back over the transcripts...

(04-07-2019, 08:02 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Simmons will NOT be there in the 3rd. He is the best DT in this draft.

The only definitive statement you can make about the draft is there are no definites.  Burfict was thought by many to be a first round talent, and he went undrafted.  Laramie Tunstill was a consensus top of the first round OT and a picture leaked of him smoking pot with a gas mask had him fall.

Simmons had a significant injury and I doubt he will be available the first of the year, and someone also mentioned something of an off-field issue?  No idea, but there are no absolutes, my friend.  That is part of the intrigue that makes the draft so much fun.  

(04-08-2019, 01:38 AM)TKUHL Wrote: True but if it's another 1st rounder coming off injury "Simmons" who may be a top 5 pick otherwise, I'm going to lose my shit. Tierd of picking injury prone players in the first. We don't have that kind of luxury considering all the holes we have. Oh and it's kinda hard to live by the " we build through the draft" mantra if we keep missing on top picks. It's a crap shot as is, don't make it even less likely to find a all star when we keep picking injured players.

Sorry this was not directed at you, just kinda got on a rant cause I can totally see us picking Simmons.

Absolutely.  And picking at #11 (and not trading down for a player like last year, which I STILL believe was a brilliant move) it should be an immediate starter and impact player. 

(04-08-2019, 03:45 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: NFL.com lists 9 combine participants who were graded 5.5("chance to become an NFL starter") or higher at the LB position.  Those players and their respective grades are:

Devin White - 6.24
Devin Bush - 6.09
Mack Wilson - 5.84
Germaine Pratt - 5.63
Jahlani Tavai - 5.55
David Long - 5.55
Cameron Smith - 5.54
Te'von Coney - 5.53
Vosean Joseph - 5.50

It's interesting to read their analysis and descriptions of the prospects past the top two.  You'll find some concerns with being productive but undersized, a bit too stiff, raw, not explosive, arrest history, etc.  Perhaps the supposed dearth of talent after the two Devins is a bit overblown.  I stumbled upon this little tidbit which I found interesting: "Personally, I would rather have David Long over Devin Bush for a round or two discount. They have about the same size but Long is more productive and maybe less prone to injury." -- NFC executive

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/LB?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL

I have mocked David Long, Jr. to us a number of times in the 3rd round.  I love him and his leadership as well.  Plus, what he had to cover in the wide-open Big 12 was more like what the NFL is progressing to than the Big 10, and Bush got schooled on wheel routes again and again against the Buckeyes.  

I would honestly LOVE to go White in Rd 1, OT in Rd 2, and David Long in Rd 3.  We would have depth, and sideline-to-sideline range like we have never had in the LB corps.  

(04-08-2019, 09:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have mocked David Long, Jr. to us a number of times in the 3rd round.  I love him and his leadership as well.  Plus, what he had to cover in the wide-open Big 12 was more like what the NFL is progressing to than the Big 10, and Bush got schooled on wheel routes again and again against the Buckeyes.  

I would honestly LOVE to go White in Rd 1, OT in Rd 2, and David Long in Rd 3.  We would have depth, and sideline-to-sideline range like we have never had in the LB corps.  

This is what I'm ultimately hoping for: LB/OT/LB, ideally with that third pick going towards someone who slipped further than expected. That would be the kind of draft that, if they hit on all 3 guys, would have them set up perfectly for the future.

Not the most scientific analysis here, but it really feels like the Bengals are due for an immediate contributor in the first round. When was the last time they had one... Kevin Zeitler?

(04-08-2019, 01:15 PM)NKURyan Wrote: This is what I'm ultimately hoping for: LB/OT/LB, ideally with that third pick going towards someone who slipped further than expected. That would be the kind of draft that, if they hit on all 3 guys, would have them set up perfectly for the future.

Not the most scientific analysis here, but it really feels like the Bengals are due for an immediate contributor in the first round. When was the last time they had one... Kevin Zeitler?

No thank you and sure hope they do not waste a first round selection on either of the Bushs.

(04-08-2019, 09:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The only definitive statement you can make about the draft is there are no definites.  Burfict was thought by many to be a first round talent, and he went undrafted.  Laramie Tunstill was a consensus top of the first round OT and a picture leaked of him smoking pot with a gas mask had him fall.

Simmons had a significant injury and I doubt he will be available the first of the year, and someone also mentioned something of an off-field issue?  No idea, but there are no absolutes, my friend.  That is part of the intrigue that makes the draft so much fun.  

First round talent is one thing. Burfict made a mockery of the biggest job interview of his life which is why he went undrafted. Definitive....Simmons will not be there in the 3rd round.

(04-07-2019, 08:00 PM)OSUfan Wrote: When did Troy state what round we would select an OT? He made a statement in regard to the signing of Hart but his statement was to the effect you have to have a plan in place and their was not a realistic FA out there. He said you could not as well count on necessarily taking an OT in the 3rd and have him walk in and start day 1.

I am pretty sure that he never stated that we would not take an OT until a certain round.

He said all kinds of weird shit in that rant. Must of been on pillz or somethin'.

Guess we should just take it with a grain of salt.

(04-07-2019, 08:02 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Simmons will NOT be there in the 3rd. He is the best DT in this draft.

He definately could be after the ACL tear and the stomping the woman vid.

Just like Mixon was there for us in the 2nd round who could of been the first RB taken if not for his vid.

Mixon wasn't even injured and he fell to us in the late 2nd round.

(04-07-2019, 08:12 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Post season ACL tears drop 99.9% of the time

And of the ones who end up getting drafted 10% end up becoming serviceable NFL players.


(percentages are estimates)

Exactly, i wouldn't gamble on it till the 3rd and i bet most teams wouldn't.

(04-08-2019, 01:15 PM)NKURyan Wrote: This is what I'm ultimately hoping for: LB/OT/LB, ideally with that third pick going towards someone who slipped further than expected. That would be the kind of draft that, if they hit on all 3 guys, would have them set up perfectly for the future.

Not the most scientific analysis here, but it really feels like the Bengals are due for an immediate contributor in the first round. When was the last time they had one... Kevin Zeitler?

Probably due to injury....but their best first rounder has been WJIII even though he didn't play his rookie season due to injury. 

Now after starting this thread, I floated the idea on another thread of a trade with the Jets involving AJ Green and Derron Lee plus swapping first round picks.  I guess I can't just stay on one idea 

(04-09-2019, 07:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Probably due to injury....but their best first rounder has been WJIII even though he didn't play his rookie season due to injury. 

Exactly - even when they find contributors in the first round (Jackson, Dennard, and I'm not throwing in the towel on Price) they seldom find that guy that steps in right away and makes a difference. I think some of that is attributed to Marvin, as he loved keeping his young CBs on the bench. Hopefully this year we find a day one contributor!