(04-13-2019, 11:36 PM)NKURyan Wrote: They whipped Cincinnati's ass... with Jeff Driskel at QB. Not sure that's anything for them to hang their hats on.

I think Cleveland is obviously set up well, I just need to see it first. They didn't beat anyone last year, they haven't posted a winning season in 12 years, and if having a young inexperienced HC is a negative for the Bengals it is for the Browns too. There's going to be a ton of pressure on the Browns this year... can they handle it? We shall see.

They already have a leg up though as Kitchens was there last year. And it was when he took over the offense that they really started playing well.

Taylor is the way bigger question mark, imo.

(04-13-2019, 11:36 PM)NKURyan Wrote: They whipped Cincinnati's ass... with Jeff Driskel at QB. Not sure that's anything for them to hang their hats on.

I think Cleveland is obviously set up well, I just need to see it first. They didn't beat anyone last year, they haven't posted a winning season in 12 years, and if having a young inexperienced HC is a negative for the Bengals it is for the Browns too. There's going to be a ton of pressure on the Browns this year... can they handle it? We shall see.

The Browns are an interesting case.  Sure, they've been bad for a long-ass time, but they fired their crappy, me-first coaches and they've done a lot to build through the draft AND they brought in some FA muscle to fill some gaps.  If they did these things and they still stink, you can't blame them for trying I guess.

I will say it's interesting how the people who aren't high on the Browns have just changed their tune from "They've got zero talent!" to "They've got too many big personalities" or something to that effect.  It just comes down to the conclusion that the Browns are going to fail, they're just going to fail in a different way this year.  And they beat us twice but it doesn't count.

Ida know.  Again, I'm not betting on the Browns, but in 2011 we beat one team with a winning record and it was apparently the start of a golden age of Bengals football.  The Browns beat one team with a winning record and we're waiting for them to go 3-13 again.  They're the Browns, they've earned the skepticism for sure.

(04-13-2019, 11:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The Browns are an interesting case.  Sure, they've been bad for a long-ass time, but they fired their crappy, me-first coaches and they've done a lot to build through the draft AND they brought in some FA muscle to fill some gaps.  If they did these things and they still stink, you can't blame them for trying I guess.

I will say it's interesting how the people who aren't high on the Browns have just changed their tune from "They've got zero talent!" to "They've got too many big personalities" or something to that effect.  It just comes down to the conclusion that the Browns are going to fail, they're just going to fail in a different way this year.  And they beat us twice but it doesn't count.

Ida know.  Again, I'm not betting on the Browns, but in 2011 we beat one team with a winning record and it was apparently the start of a golden age of Bengals football.  The Browns beat one team with a winning record and we're waiting for them to go 3-13 again.  They're the Browns, they've earned the skepticism for sure.

These are not your fathers Browns though. They have the QB and they have the GM.

Anyone that thinks this is the same old Factory of Sadness hasn’t been paying attention.

(04-13-2019, 11:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: These are not your fathers Browns though. They have the QB and they have the GM.

Anyone that thinks this is the same old Factory of Sadness hasn’t been paying attention.

Geez, I just looked it up and in his two games against us Mayfield went 46 of 63 for 542 yards and had 7 TDs with 0 turnovers and an average rating of 132.9.  Hell, his year ending stats are better than Dalton in every season except 2015.  I know stats don't tell the whole story, but based on how sure we are he's going to head straight for the basement I expect him to have a lot crappier numbers than he does.

We're 2 games in the hole against him, so we need to get back to work...excuses be damned.


And yea, here come the "Nately thinks Mayfield is a HOF-er" comments.  Lay 'em on me. The fact is, the Browns didn't start a late round QB, a has-been vet, or an insata-bust at QB and so far it looks like they could be better for it. Imagine that.

(04-14-2019, 12:03 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Geez, I just looked it up and in his two games against us Mayfield went 46 of 63 for 542 yards and had 7 TDs with 0 turnovers and an average rating of 132.9.  Hell, his year ending stats are better than Dalton in every season except 2015.  I know stats don't tell the whole story, but based on how sure we are he's going to head straight for the basement I expect him to have a lot crappier numbers than he does.

We're 2 games in the hole against him, so we need to get back to work...excuses be damned.


And yea, here come the "Nately thinks Mayfield is a HOF-er" comments.  Lay 'em on me.  The fact is, the Browns didn't start a late round QB, a has-been vet, or an insata-bust at QB and so far it looks like they could be better for it.  Imagine that.

...which means he threw 20 TDs vs 19 turnovers against the rest of the league. Not great. He feasted on the worst defense in the league last year, not sure what that tells us.

Again, I see potential there. I just need to see them cash in on it before my skepticism goes away. Mayfield may be the next great young QB, or he may be the next Josh Freeman. 

As for the 2011 Bengals beating nobody, sure. How many experts predicted them to build on that in 2012? I don't know that the Bengals ever got to the point where they were perennial picks to win the division and that's even after they'd put together a string of good seasons.

(04-13-2019, 11:36 PM)NKURyan Wrote: They whipped Cincinnati's ass... with Jeff Driskel at QB. Not sure that's anything for them to hang their hats on.

I think Cleveland is obviously set up well, I just need to see it first. They didn't beat anyone last year, they haven't posted a winning season in 12 years, and if having a young inexperienced HC is a negative for the Bengals it is for the Browns too. There's going to be a ton of pressure on the Browns this year... can they handle it? We shall see.

To be fair, Dalton played in the first game (and didn’t play well) but he got hurt midway through IIRC.

I certainly hope they disappoint. I hate the Browns, but they have so much talent that it is hard for me to realistically believe they will be a bad team.

Browns are going to be solid, probably playoff bound. Their offense looks amazing. If we had this team we be talking super bowl bound. Don’t hate on the Browns they are definitely on the rise.

(04-13-2019, 11:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The Browns are an interesting case.  Sure, they've been bad for a long-ass time, but they fired their crappy, me-first coaches and they've done a lot to build through the draft AND they brought in some FA muscle to fill some gaps.  If they did these things and they still stink, you can't blame them for trying I guess.

I will say it's interesting how the people who aren't high on the Browns have just changed their tune from "They've got zero talent!" to "They've got too many big personalities" or something to that effect.  It just comes down to the conclusion that the Browns are going to fail, they're just going to fail in a different way this year.  And they beat us twice but it doesn't count.

Ida know.  Again, I'm not betting on the Browns, but in 2011 we beat one team with a winning record and it was apparently the start of a golden age of Bengals football.  The Browns beat one team with a winning record and we're waiting for them to go 3-13 again.  They're the Browns, they've earned the skepticism for sure.

Basically I believe if they can't be winners with this team going into this season...  then they are cursed.

It would take major injuries, coaching faux pas, chemistry clashes, and Mayfield to suck his sophomore season.

Those all could happen, but the odds are stacked in their favor it won't.

I'm not ready to say that they'll even win the division but it's highly likely they'll at least beat our team once.

Hell they've split us before with worse teams.  To say that they could beat the Bengals twice wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

The Stains have had a couple of seasons where they easily could've been above .500 record if for not folding in waning moments of games.

Perhaps they get over the hump like when Marvin took the helm.  Is it really that far fetched?

when your expected to win is a bit different than HOPING to win.
how many teams have we seen in the past that looked like monsters
on paper then finished the season 6 and 10.
the Browns still have to do it on the field.
yeah Mayfield had his way with Cincy.
that was last year.
new year...new energy new voices in Cincy

(04-14-2019, 10:02 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Perhaps they get over the hump like when Marvin took the helm.  Is it really that far fetched?

No.  Not "far fetched" at all, just not as much of a "sure thing" as some people believe.

They had the 30th ranked defense last year and they are replacing one of the best OGs in the league with a guy who has only played 15 NFL snaps in his career.

I was a big fan of Mayfield even before the draft.  He will be trouble.  But I think they still have a lot to prove as a team.

(04-14-2019, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Not "far fetched" at all, just not as much of a "sure thing" as some people believe.

They had the 30th ranked defense last year and they are replacing one of the best OGs in the league with a guy who has only played 15 NFL snaps in his career.

I was a big fan of Mayfield even before the draft.  He will be trouble.  But I think they still have a lot to prove as a team.

I don't think it's a sure thing.

Kinda reminds me of when TO was signed and the talking heads thought we were legit and then proceeded to crash and burn.

No excuses really to fail in my opinion.  There just are some factors to point to why they shouldn't be anointed to be SB contenders just yet.

For being perennial losers they sure hold a large fan base... so why wouldn't the media want to hype them up when the pieces seem to be coming together?

I get it.  As Bengals fans we don't want our team to be dismissed.  However the Browns need to be taken seriously now.

I'm not real sure why now the Ratbirds would get more cred from our fans than them.  If anything I could see them fail big time.

(04-14-2019, 12:03 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Geez, I just looked it up and in his two games against us Mayfield went 46 of 63 for 542 yards and had 7 TDs with 0 turnovers and an average rating of 132.9.  Hell, his year ending stats are better than Dalton in every season except 2015.  I know stats don't tell the whole story, but based on how sure we are he's going to head straight for the basement I expect him to have a lot crappier numbers than he does.

We're 2 games in the hole against him, so we need to get back to work...excuses be damned.


And yea, here come the "Nately thinks Mayfield is a HOF-er" comments.  Lay 'em on me.  The fact is, the Browns didn't start a late round QB, a has-been vet, or an insata-bust at QB and so far it looks like they could be better for it.  Imagine that.

Yep, playing our defense twice (and last year our D was historically bad) and the Falcons likewise horrid defense REALLY padded Mayfield's stat line. Outside of these outings he was nothing special and he mostly played poor defenses. I don't know how he ends up but right now he is overhyped. Also they gave up Peppers and Zeitler and their 1 and 3 this year, so there is not a lot of help coming for their 30th ranked defense. 

Add in that Mayfield is a diva and OBJ a diva and a locker room cancer and their new coaches will have fun - it will show their mettle in keeping that locker room focused. 

(04-14-2019, 05:26 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yep, playing our defense twice (and last year our D was historically bad) and the Falcons likewise horrid defense REALLY padded Mayfield's stat line. Outside of these outings he was nothing special and he mostly played poor defenses. I don't know how he ends up but right now he is overhyped. Also they gave up Peppers and Zeitler and their 1 and 3 this year, so there is not a lot of help coming for their 30th ranked defense. 

Add in that Mayfield is a diva and OBJ a diva and a locker room cancer and their new coaches will have fun - it will show their mettle in keeping that locker room focused. 

I just wonder if Williams had any contribution for those wins?

Their D was terrible but his abilities to head-coach the team were tossed out like garbage.

I get that Kitchens is enthusiastic and driven, but is he even keeled enough to make it all work?

That with OBJ added to the mix to manage could be quite the handful.

We shall see... we shall see...

(04-14-2019, 05:26 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yep, playing our defense twice (and last year our D was historically bad) and the Falcons likewise horrid defense REALLY padded Mayfield's stat line. Outside of these outings he was nothing special and he mostly played poor defenses. I don't know how he ends up but right now he is overhyped. Also they gave up Peppers and Zeitler and their 1 and 3 this year, so there is not a lot of help coming for their 30th ranked defense. 

Add in that Mayfield is a diva and OBJ a diva and a locker room cancer and their new coaches will have fun - it will show their mettle in keeping that locker room focused. 

I'm not sure pointing out that Mayfield ran up his stats against our defense really furthers the notion that the Bengals can compete in the AFC North, though.  Our excuse on offense was that AJ and Andy were injured and on defense...well...Austin wrecked everything, hopefully.


The point is, a rookie QB in our division curb-stomped our defense and the best thing we can do at the moment is just hope that both games were a complete aberration and he's not that good and we aren't that bad.  Could be...but at this point I'm going to see better than I hope.

The Browns were 1-31 before Mayfield got there and they aren't exactly the Patriots now, but they ain't 1-31 anymore. And yeah, Mayfield and OJB and some other guys on that team are d-bag divas, but Pig Ben, Bell, and Antonio Brown are also d-bag divas and they managed to put that sort of thing aside long enough to beat us nearly every time we played them, so ehh...again, I'm not betting it all on the Browns but we are doing a lot of "hoping" when it comes to them falling back into 4th place.

(04-14-2019, 10:02 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Perhaps they get over the hump like when Marvin took the helm.  Is it really that far fetched?

Maybe. But it took 3 seasons for Marvin to get over that hump of not winning, too.

I look at the Browns and I see the 2003 Bengals - a feel good story that exceeded expectations and looked like an actual NFL franchise for the first time in forever with a first round pick ready for his first full season as a starter and star WRs to complement him. It took time for the Bengals to get there, we'll see if the same is true for the Browns.

TBH I think how the schedule shakes out will have an impact too. A young team starting 2-0 versus a young team starting 0-2 probably head down  different paths.

(04-14-2019, 06:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not sure pointing out that Mayfield ran up his stats against our defense really furthers the notion that the Bengals can compete in the AFC North, though.  Our excuse on offense was that AJ and Andy were injured and on defense...well...Austin wrecked everything, hopefully.


The point is, a rookie QB in our division curb-stomped our defense and the best thing we can do at the moment is just hope that both games were a complete aberration and he's not that good and we aren't that bad.  Could be...but at this point I'm going to see better than I hope.

The Browns were 1-31 before Mayfield got there and they aren't exactly the Patriots now, but they ain't 1-31 anymore.  And yeah, Mayfield and OJB and some other guys on that team are d-bag divas, but Pig Ben, Bell, and Antonio Brown are also d-bag divas and they managed to put that sort of thing aside long enough to beat us nearly every time we played them, so ehh...again, I'm not betting it all on the Browns but we are doing a lot of "hoping" when it comes to them falling back into 4th place.

Well, do you think our defense will again be historically bad? Too be honest there is no way to know as all the coaches are new. But at least the ones who put our players in wrong schemes for their abilities are gone. 

I think those who are going against the hype train are just stating that the Stains are not as good as you think, the Rats lost a lot, don't count the Stealers out and as for us right now we are a blank page - with all new coaching, schemes and everything there really is no way to forecast what will happen with us accurately. 

(04-14-2019, 05:26 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yep, playing our defense twice (and last year our D was historically bad) and the Falcons likewise horrid defense REALLY padded Mayfield's stat line. Outside of these outings he was nothing special and he mostly played poor defenses. I don't know how he ends up but right now he is overhyped. Also they gave up Peppers and Zeitler and their 1 and 3 this year, so there is not a lot of help coming for their 30th ranked defense. 

Add in that Mayfield is a diva and OBJ a diva and a locker room cancer and their new coaches will have fun - it will show their mettle in keeping that locker room focused. 

The converse to this argument is that Dalton obviously benefited from playing terrible Browns teams for pretty much all of his career.

(04-14-2019, 11:54 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The converse to this argument is that Dalton obviously benefited from playing terrible Browns teams for pretty much all of his career.

Yep. And even then he wasn’t always good. See the 2.0 game. What Mayfield did was impressive for a rookie, idc how bad we were.

(04-14-2019, 10:10 PM)Joelist Wrote: Well, do you think our defense will again be historically bad? Too be honest there is no way to know as all the coaches are new. But at least the ones who put our players in wrong schemes for their abilities are gone. 

I think those who are going against the hype train are just stating that the Stains are not as good as you think, the Rats lost a lot, don't count the Stealers out and as for us right now we are a blank page - with all new coaching, schemes and everything there really is no way to forecast what will happen with us accurately. 

I'm not forecasting anything and I'm not buying into the Browns.  I'm just saying that there seems to be a lot of assumptions that 2018 just plain didn't count and our defense will be better and the Browns will be worse, or as bad as they really were in 2018 and so on.

(04-13-2019, 06:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Exciting year?  You make it sound like we're going to have the division sewn up by week 6!  

The Steelers got rid of their high-talent divas so they'll be worse.  The Browns picked up some high-talent divas, so they'll be worse.  The Ravens won the division by default last year and got worse over the off-season.

AND the Bengals rookie HC has a hunger to win, but the Browns rookie HC will be overwhelmed because he's in over his head.  


Ok, that's hyperbole, but I will say your faith that the only good team in the division is the one that finished in last place is quite intriguing.  Hope springs eternal!

Thus far, on paper, they have.