(04-17-2019, 10:35 AM)McC Wrote: So, just keep taking QB's until you get the right one?  Throw in firing HC's every year and you have the Cleveland model for sukking for a decade or two.

Yes. If the ultimate goal is to win a SB that is. I'm pretty sure every SB (but maybe 3) won was done within the first 5 years of a HC & QB combo. You have to keep cycling thru the QB's and coaches until you get the right mix. 

(04-17-2019, 10:58 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yes. If the ultimate goal is to win a SB that is. I'm pretty sure every SB (but maybe 3) won was done within the first 5 years of a HC & QB combo. You have to keep cycling thru the QB's and coaches until you get the right mix. 

Woo hoo!  The ten year rebuild.

(04-17-2019, 11:15 AM)McC Wrote: Woo hoo!  The ten year rebuild.

Patience is a virtue. You should know this you're a Bengals fan   

(04-17-2019, 10:54 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This is actually a false statement. KC, HOU, PHI, LAR all traded UP to get their current 1st round QBs.



 I just don't have ultra-high confidence that any QB from this class is a Top 10 QB type of guy, and therefore I wouldn't bother with a 1st round QB this year.

So you have a problem with taking a QB who is going to cost you one first rounder and wait until next year and give up multiple first or second rounders? This team is already short on young talent. Trading away picks when a possible answer falls into your lap for little cost is what we need. The core of the team has been together for years with five playoff games with no wins. The last three seasons have been terrible but die hard fans refuse to see you have to have roster change sometime. Waiting until the wheels fall off only digs a deeper hole.

(04-17-2019, 12:19 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you have a problem with taking a QB who is going to cost you one first rounder and wait until next year and give up multiple first or second rounders? This team is already short on young talent. Trading away picks when a possible answer falls into your lap for little cost is what we need. The core of the team has been together for years with five playoff games with no wins. The last three seasons have been terrible but die hard fans refuse to see you have to have roster change sometime. Waiting until the wheels fall off only digs a deeper hole.

I do if the QB in question this year doesn't give me high confidence he will be worth the selection.

Let's look at it this way...
Johnny Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater were considered top-tier QBs in the 2014 NFL draft, right? The Buccaneers and Titans both needed a QB.
They could have selected either of those guys at 7 and 11 respectively but instead chose to get Evans and Lewan. They then chose to trade up the following year for Winston and Mariota.

I'd argue they made better decisions to trade up for Winston and Mariota over drafting Manziel and Bridgewater the year prior, right? Winston and Mariota have both been better than Manziel and Bridgewater. Not to mention the fact they got guys who really helped both of their QBs who were drafted the following year.

(04-17-2019, 01:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I do if the QB in question this year doesn't give me high confidence he will be worth the selection.

Let's look at it this way...
Johnny Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater were considered top-tier QBs in the 2014 NFL draft, right? The Buccaneers and Titans both needed a QB.
They could have selected either of those guys at 7 and 11 respectively but instead chose to get Evans and Lewan. They then chose to trade up the following year for Winston and Mariota.

I'd argue they made better decisions to trade up for Winston and Mariota over drafting Manziel and Bridgewater the year prior, right? Winston and Mariota have both been better than Manziel and Bridgewater. Not to mention the fact they got guys who really helped both of their QBs who were drafted the following year.

I think there will be plenty of surprises come next Thursday. Hopefully what ever way they go they improve this team. If Haskins is there at 11 and they trade back then it must be what the experts in the FO believe will be best. One player is not going to be what puts them over the top. They need to knock it out of the park to make the Bengals a legitimate PO contender.

(04-17-2019, 05:44 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I think there will be plenty of surprises come next Thursday. Hopefully what ever way they go they improve this team. If Haskins is there at 11 and they trade back then it must be what the experts in the FO believe will be best. One player is not going to be what puts them over the top. They need to knock it out of the park to make the Bengals a legitimate PO contender.

Correct on practically every point.
There will be unexpected selections.
One player will not put them over the top (not this season anyway).
Since they don't focus on elite FAs, they need to nail the draft to be a legitimate contender.

(04-17-2019, 10:58 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote:  You have to keep cycling thru the QB's and coaches until you get the right mix. 

One or the other.  Maybe not both.

(04-17-2019, 12:19 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  The last three seasons have been terrible but die hard fans refuse to see you have to have roster change sometime.

This is a hilarious comment.  Please list all of the fans who claim we don't need to make any changes to the roster.

The haters refuse to acknowledge that when you rebuild you don't have to replace 100% of your players.  They just pick the players they don't like and say they have to be replaced.

(04-17-2019, 12:19 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you have a problem with taking a QB who is going to cost you one first rounder and wait until next year and give up multiple first or second rounders? 

There are more than just those two options.  We could draft a guy in the second or third this year to groom for a couple of seasons. That is where guys like Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garopollo, Nick Foles, Andy Dalton, and Colin Kaepernick came from.

(04-18-2019, 08:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Correct on practically every point.
There will be unexpected selections.
One player will not put them over the top (not this season anyway).
Since they don't focus on elite FAs, they need to nail the draft to be a legitimate contender.

Exactly

This team is still reeling from the giant flops called the 2014 and 15 drafts. They have to nail two or three picks nearly every draft to stay in contention. They might get away with a bad draft once every 5 years. But when 6 or 7 of your top 8 picks over back to back drafts aren't even on the team 4 years later you're hurting bad !

They have to hit a grand friggin slam with this draft for the Dalton/AJ era to have any chance since they again sat on their hands in free agency. It's either that or begin rebuilding.

Who knows perhaps they will choose to begin the rebuild and go QB ? More often than not new HC's want their guy at QB in the first season or two.

WATCH THESE 3 MINUTES with @dh_simba7 I PROMISE YOU ITS WORTH IT... ? on ? #NFLDraft @getupespn @espngreeny @albertbreer @laurarutledge pic.twitter.com/g8ZPZWAbnS

— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) April 19, 2019

(04-12-2019, 10:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: TRADE BACK!

Get that premium draft capital and really build up the team. This team could really use an extra Day1/2 pick or two. They need two LBs, one OT, one pass rushing DT, and a TE for sure. An extra early-round pick would allow them to better accomplish that and fits in with their model of draft and develop.

Depends on if Devin White or JaWaan Taylor are there but yeah, if neither of these guys are and Haskins is, trade back.

Then select someone like Jonah Williams or Devin Bush while adding a pick.

(04-20-2019, 12:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are more than just those two options.  We could draft a guy in the second or third this year to groom for a couple of seasons. That is where guys like Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garopollo, Nick Foles, Andy Dalton, and Colin Kaepernick came from.

You say to draft second rounders but stay away from first rounders? OK then but don't second rounders fail also? 

(04-20-2019, 06:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You say to draft second rounders but stay away from first rounders? OK then but don't second rounders fail also? 

yes.. but the thought is 1st round pick is pencil in need at QB everytime.. 2/3 round picks can be play later.. so why not take a pencil in person ie LB or OT 1st round and a 2nd /3rd play later QB

Its possible the Cardinals are backing off Kyler Murray.

Quote:Here's Prisco's assessment, via CBS Sports HQ:

Initially, the ownership pushed for Kyler Murray. That much I know, I was told that. The reason they did is they are having a hard time selling tickets. Well, they put it out there. Arizona was lukewarm to it. All of a sudden, they are pulling back and from what I've been told, they are going to go in a different direction. They are not going to draft Kyler Murray.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/report-cards-backing-murray-no-1-pick-sticking-rosen

(04-20-2019, 06:05 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You say to draft second rounders but stay away from first rounders? OK then but don't second rounders fail also? 

What I am saying is that RIGHT NOW quarterback is not a big need at all.  So right now we should be using our highest picks to fix our biggest problems.

If QB was one of the big problems with this team then I would be fine with using a first riound pick on one.

(04-21-2019, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What I am saying is that RIGHT NOW quarterback is not a big need at all.  So right now we should be using our highest picks to fix our biggest problems.

If QB was one of the big problems with this team then I would be fine with using a first riound pick on one.

So a new car isn't in your immediate needs now but someone offers you a deal that will cost you only one half or one third of what that car will cost you in the next two or three years. That's a way to look at the QB situation facing the Bengals. The pundits are projecting a 8-8 season this year and that will probably give us a lower pick than this year. They would give up no extra picks while moving up in 2020 or2021 would cost a boat load of picks. Then there is Andy's contract situation next year. All I am saying is there is a ton of reasons not to wait until QB is a need RIGHT NOW.

Season projections don't mean shit.

These same pundits had us going 0-16 in 2011.

(04-12-2019, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: NYG supposedly would still be interested at 17 but not at 6. They might be willing to trade up to 11 if he falls that far.
The following trade turns out to be the exact same value according to trade value chart:

CIN trades 11 (1250 pts) and 72 (230 pts) to NYG
NYG trades 17 (950 pts) and 37 (530 pts) to CIN

This would have Cincinnati picking 17th in 1st round and 37th and 42nd in 2nd round.
They would lose their 3rd rounder, however.

But personally, I see a lot of good picks being available in early-mid Rd 2 and I don't like a lot of Rd 3 prospects. So I'd be all in favor of such a trade.

I'd love it if this happens.

I think there's going to be a couple guys we could use at 11, but, honestly, we've got so many positions that could be upgraded or prepared for that two second round picks would be great.

And it seems like nyg is a good partner. I was watching some predraft stuff and seems like theres some mutual love between haskins and the team.