I love this dude's attitude and think he's literally the perfect player we need right now who would help us tremendously immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rprnA_Rllyg

If it's true the Bucs like him at 5, you really aren't going up to 3 or 4 for a stack LB as it would cost a 2 and 3. If he falls to 8 the Lions are interested in moving back and so that could be a target as it would cost us a 4th and swap of our 3rds.

It's just not gonna happen.

no way they trade up. if he falls then fine, but for my money, Bush is the better on the field leader and fits what we need more

I’d love to get White, but trading up to 3 for him is too risky for me. McShay told a great story about him on ESPN the other day. The other defensive players respected White as their leader so much, that when Greedy Williams decided to sit out the bowl game, he told/apologized to White before even telling the coaches.

Those types of things are intangibles that can’t be measured or watched on film.

(04-19-2019, 08:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: If it's true the Bucs like him at 5, you really aren't going up to 3 or 4 for a stack LB as it would cost a 2 and 3. If he falls to 8 the Lions are interested in moving back and so that could be a target as it would cost us a 4th and swap of our 3rds.

This team needs ALL of its top picks. If they were a player away that would be different. This is not something they should do IMO.

(04-19-2019, 08:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: If it's true the Bucs like him at 5, you really aren't going up to 3 or 4 for a stack LB as it would cost a 2 and 3. If he falls to 8 the Lions are interested in moving back and so that could be a target as it would cost us a 4th and swap of our 3rds.

It's really tough to give up picks in this draft simply because it's very deep in a couple of areas of need for the Bengals.  Pretty much no matter how the Top 10 shakes out, there will be either a great prospect or a QB someone is willing to move up for at 11.  There's a ton of great DL talent in that range, 2-3 T's worth the pick, and even Hock would be a great consolation prize.

Even moving up to 8 for White can hurt if there's a run on T's and you need to move up in the 2nd to get one.  Considering the FA OT market recently, it honestly wouldn't be the worst thing to give up our 4th and a 6th to move up to 32 and get that 5th year option while securing your guy.

Non-pass rushing LBs almost always drop. Given the choice between a DE and a LB, a lot of teams struggle with taking a player who doesn't get after the QB.

Roquan Smith was considered one of the best LB prospects in a generation and he still wasn't taken in the top 5. NFL.com rated Smith a half point higher than White (6.74 vs 6.25) and he would have been the top rated player in the draft this year (Quinnen Williams is the highest rated player by NFL.com at 6.70).

That may be a testament to how strong last year's class was, but there were several players with worse grades drafted ahead of Smith (everyone drafted before him except Darnold, Chubb and Barkley were rated lower than him).  

It may have also been a matter of need intersecting value. Maybe the first 7 teams didn't need a LB.

But considering 3 of the choices were QBs, and there are just as many teams this year that are QB needy, I think White has a fairly good chance of dropping to us.

This year, White is the 12th ranked player by NFL.com, so he would be being drafted ahead of higher rated players if he isn't there at 11, which may end up being pretty nice for us, if it means a player like Ed Oliver falls into our laps.

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects

Given the choice between an elite LB and an elite DT, most teams would take the DT, right?

Tremaine Edmunds had a similar drop, down to 16. Not many people were projecting he fall out of the top 12 leading up to the draft.

Going back through the last 10-15 NFL drafts, there just haven't been too many off ball LBs that go in the top 10. Now, that may be because there were none rated that highly. It's hard to say where C.J. Mosely and Ryan Shazier were rated at the time they were drafted, same with Jarvis Jones. But I believe I recall each one taking a relative fall, even if it was just 3 or 4 picks.

I am going into the draft hoping that White makes it to us. That said, there is a precedent for elite off ball LBs being taken in the latter half of the top 10 (Kuechly at #9, R. Smith at #8, McClain #8, River #9, Hawk #5, Sims #9), but I think this is a very common practice around these boards every year.

We convince ourselves that the player we want will be long gone by the time our pick comes around. I remember when we were absolutely convinced DeCastro would be taken 5 picks before our #17 pick in 2012, but we ended up having the opportunity (and passed) to draft him in the 20s!
I thought the same thing about Johnathan Allen in 2017 (who we also passed on), Darqueze Dennard in 2014, Dez Bryant (again, we passed) in 2010.

When you want a player, you assume everyone else wants them too! (which, to be fair, sometimes they do. Sedrick Ellis in 2008... ) . But I'm not gonna do that this year. I'm all in on White being our pick :) .

The nice thing is that, even if he doesn't fall (which I hope he does), we will almost certainly be able to draft Bush (because 2 off ball LBs in the top 10 is virtually unheard of in recent NFL draft history).

(04-19-2019, 11:24 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Non-pass rushing LBs almost always drop. Given the choice between a DE and a LB, a lot of teams struggle with taking a player who doesn't get after the QB.

Roquan Smith was considered one of the best LB prospects in a generation and he still wasn't taken in the top 5. NFL.com rated Smith a half point higher than White (6.74 vs 6.25) and he would have been the top rated player in the draft this year (Quinnen Williams is the highest rated player by NFL.com at 6.70).

That may be a testament to how strong last year's class was, but there were several players with worse grades drafted ahead of Smith (everyone drafted before him except Darnold, Chubb and Barkley were rated lower than him).  

It may have also been a matter of need intersecting value. Maybe the first 7 teams didn't need a LB.

But considering 3 of the choices were QBs, and there are just as many teams this year that are QB needy, I think White has a fairly good chance of dropping to us.

This year, White is the 12th ranked player by NFL.com, so he would be being drafted ahead of higher rated players if he isn't there at 11, which may end up being pretty nice for us, if it means a player like Ed Oliver falls into our laps.

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects

Given the choice between an elite LB and an elite DT, most teams would take the DT, right?

Tremaine Edmunds had a similar drop, down to 16. Not many people were projecting he fall out of the top 12 leading up to the draft.

Going back through the last 10-15 NFL drafts, there just haven't been too many off ball LBs that go in the top 10. Now, that may be because there were none rated that highly. It's hard to say where C.J. Mosely and Ryan Shazier were rated at the time they were drafted, same with Jarvis Jones. But I believe I recall each one taking a relative fall, even if it was just 3 or 4 picks.

I am going into the draft hoping that White makes it to us. That said, there is a precedent for elite off ball LBs being taken in the latter half of the top 10 (Kuechly at #9, R. Smith at #8, McClain #8, River #9, Hawk #5, Sims #9), but I think this is a very common practice around these boards every year.

We convince ourselves that the player we want will be long gone by the time our pick comes around. I remember when we were absolutely convinced DeCastro would be taken 5 picks before our #17 pick in 2012, but we ended up having the opportunity (and passed) to draft him in the 20s!
I thought the same thing about Johnathan Allen in 2017 (who we also passed on), Darqueze Dennard in 2014, Dez Bryant (again, we passed) in 2010.

When you want a player, you assume everyone else wants them too! (which, to be fair, sometimes they do. Sedrick Ellis in 2008... ) . But I'm not gonna do that this year. I'm all in on White being our pick :) .

The nice thing is that, even if he doesn't fall (which I hope he does), we will almost certainly be able to draft Bush (because 2 off ball LBs in the top 10 is virtually unheard of in recent NFL draft history).

For sake of comparison, Mosley had a 6.5 combine rating and Shazier had a 6.15.  

White has a ton of upside, but there's a lot of issues with his game.  He and Bush are both guys that are better athletes than football players right now.  Neither guy is a clean prospect, and if you're taking a non-pass rushing LB in the top 10, they better be a clean prospect.  Based off combine grades, White would be the #4 LB last year.  

Looking at FA this year, Mosley got $17 mil a year and Juwan James, an average starting RT, got $14 mil a year and Aaron Donald is making $22 mil a year.  The dollars being spent there don't indicate GM's putting a large priority on the position.

There's a decent chance White makes it to 11.  I think the bigger question is who else is available and is White necessarily the pick.

It'll be great if he falls, but I'm not sure trading up for him would be wise.

Bush is a good enough prospect and he'll likely be there at 11. If White was the only lb option in the top 15 of the draft, then I can see considering it.

I don't see them trading up even then tho.

(04-18-2019, 10:34 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I love this dude's attitude and think he's literally the perfect player we need right now who would help us tremendously immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rprnA_Rllyg

If they trade up to get him then they should all be fired.

So you are saying we need a fast LB that has truly never been tested in coverage duties, that is just learning to play the position, and is a poor tackler at this point?

(04-20-2019, 02:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: For sake of comparison, Mosley had a 6.5 combine rating and Shazier had a 6.15.  

White has a ton of upside, but there's a lot of issues with his game.  He and Bush are both guys that are better athletes than football players right now.  Neither guy is a clean prospect, and if you're taking a non-pass rushing LB in the top 10, they better be a clean prospect.  Based off combine grades, White would be the #4 LB last year.  

Looking at FA this year, Mosley got $17 mil a year and Juwan James, an average starting RT, got $14 mil a year and Aaron Donald is making $22 mil a year.  The dollars being spent there don't indicate GM's putting a large priority on the position.

There's a decent chance White makes it to 11.  I think the bigger question is who else is available and is White necessarily the pick.

Great post!

(04-20-2019, 02:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: For sake of comparison, Mosley had a 6.5 combine rating and Shazier had a 6.15.  

White has a ton of upside, but there's a lot of issues with his game.  He and Bush are both guys that are better athletes than football players right now.  Neither guy is a clean prospect, and if you're taking a non-pass rushing LB in the top 10, they better be a clean prospect.  Based off combine grades, White would be the #4 LB last year.  

Looking at FA this year, Mosley got $17 mil a year and Juwan James, an average starting RT, got $14 mil a year and Aaron Donald is making $22 mil a year.  The dollars being spent there don't indicate GM's putting a large priority on the position.

There's a decent chance White makes it to 11.  I think the bigger question is who else is available and is White necessarily the pick.

He'd better be.  Does anybody need a refresher course on our LB play last year?

(04-21-2019, 08:51 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Great post!

Why are you so anxious to have Hardy Nickerson back out there sabotaging another season?

(04-18-2019, 10:34 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I love this dude's attitude and think he's literally the perfect player we need right now who would help us tremendously immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rprnA_Rllyg

Great vid, shows how special this player is and why he is clearly the #1 LB in this class. His smarts, dude is a leader with a great head on his shoulders and can do it all. Sometimes he doesn't tackle quite as good as i would like and he is not a pass rusher like Von Miller so he could fall to us.

I think he may fall to us so we won't need to trade up. The Bucs need to replace McCoy, who is the player that fits that role? Ed Oliver. The only other team i see taking White after that is the Broncos and they need help in lots of areas, not just Linebacker. If we trade up in front of the Broncos i would be fine with that but as others are saying it would be way too much to trade up ahead of the Bucs.

(04-21-2019, 04:00 PM)McC Wrote: Why are you so anxious to have Hardy Nickerson back out there sabotaging another season?

Wow what an ignorant observation. Can you please let me know where I made this stupid statement? Never even remotely stated this. I just do not want either of the LBs at 11 that are named Devin.

White is still learning the position and the best thing that can be said about his game is that he is fast. So was Renaldo Nehemiah but that did not make him a great receiver. White is a poor tackler with poor instincts. He has trouble getting off of blocks and has never actually been tested in coverage duties. He runs himself out of plays and lets up on many plays. Try watching some film (Florida game is a great example) rather than just listening to what talking heads are saying.

Now what I would like to see is drafting Mack Wilson, Vosean Joseph, Joe Giles-Harris, Te'von Coney, Ben Burr Kirven, Tre Watson, Chase Hansen, etc.

Why are you so anxious to run Bobby Hart back out there? This team will go as far as their O line will take them. That is not an opinion that is a fact.

The simple fact of the matter is we have to trust the new coaching staff, or at least give them the benefit of the doubt until they've shown that they don't deserve it.

If they don't take a LB in round one, that doesn't mean that the season is doomed. There are still six rounds left in the draft. While having a walk-on starter is nice, it's the coaches job to... well, coach these guys into being NFL-caliber players. If they can't do that, they either have a poor eye for talent or they're not that great of coaches.

At this point, the Bengals may need to trade up for Devin Bush. If White goes early, the Broncos might snag Bush at 10.

(04-22-2019, 10:35 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: At this point, the Bengals may need to trade up for Devin Bush.  If White goes early, the Broncos might snag Bush at 10.

If both Bush and White are taken in the top 10, which would be rather unprecedented in the context of the history of the draft, then that means an elite player will fall to 11. Either way, we're good.

(04-18-2019, 10:34 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I love this dude's attitude and think he's literally the perfect player we need right now who would help us tremendously immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rprnA_Rllyg

I have a horrible feeling we will be playing against him twice a year.