(04-28-2019, 06:16 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are saying you had complete confidence in his coaching staff and you feel like the issue was completely him?

If you have listened to interviews with Lou Anarumo you will have heard that he wants to simplify the playbook and allow guys to go out there and play fast without being in constant thought about what is going on. One of the reasons the Patriots are as good as they are is because the play rather simple schemes on both sides of the ball but they execute them almost to perfection. I think this concept is what we are going to see on defense with Lou.

I think more of the issue with these young backers was a lack of quality coaching because the deficiencies were pretty much across the boards not with individuals.

Where are you getting this from? I never said I had complete confidence in that staff. You can't say I'm putting all the blame on the player while your putting all the blame on the coach. It's all speculation at this point. Hubbard was picked 1 pick before Jefferson and he couldn't stay off the field. Malik struggled in college as well after being highly recruited and it didn't click for him till his Jr season. Is this a trend with this guy or was that coach just an idiot running a complex system too. I never said I liked Haslett, but he is 1 out of 32 NFL LB coaches in the world he's not a complete moron. With that said I'm sure the new coach will simplify it, but who's to say they haven't tried already. I think it could be a combination of running an out dated complex system, Malik being a slow learner, or the fact that the kid just might not be a very good NFL player.

(04-28-2019, 08:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He played in Year 1. He had 79 total tackles.

He missed a bunch of games year 2.

He went from being a Bad LB as a rookie to average to above average Year 2. That's some improvement.

That said, he's a #3 LB. IF he's our best guy, we're in trouble. And IF Preston Brown gets injured, that's the case.

We need to add a LB that's better than Brown and Vigil. That's the challenge.

Hmm. Vigil isn’t anything more than average. He had a nice game 1, then was trash rest of the year. Injured or not wasn’t very good at all.

(04-28-2019, 09:32 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Hmm.  Vigil isn’t anything more than average.  He had a nice game 1, then was trash rest of the year.  Injured or not wasn’t very good at all.

False.

Until he was injured Nick Vigil was one of the league leaders in not just tackles but stops too.

He finished the year on PFF under 60. #64 LB.

At the start of the year, BEFORE the injury...he was in the 70's for rating if I recall correctly. So hopefully that's the guy we get next year.

Vigil is upgradable but not a total liability. Probably better suited for run stopping packages but he’s a decent NFL LB

Zach Brown. Get him.


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(04-28-2019, 08:16 PM)Mobster Wrote: He's not on the team any more...

Huh, I searched his name and his NFL.com page popped up saying “LB - Cincinnati Bengals.” I forgot he was gone.

(04-28-2019, 09:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He finished the year on PFF under 60. #64 LB.

At the start of the year, BEFORE the injury...he was in the 70's for rating if I recall correctly. So hopefully that's the guy we get next year.

Hmm. My eyes n PFF say he’s not very good. Hopefully he’s improved a lot in year 3.

(04-28-2019, 10:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Zach Brown. Get him.


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This

Zach Brown and Jamie Collins are pretty much our only options. It's not like we're expected to compete this year anyway, but I'd hate for Pratt or Jefferson to have a lot of pressure coming into the season to be the solutions. I'm 80% sure we're not interested in them, though. Otherwise, we would've signed them a while ago. The Darron Lee rumors went dead, also. I didn't have a problem with Brown coming back, he got nicked up immediately and while he's far from good in coverage he still came away with 2 INTs. Probably the only guy I'd consider "decent". Vigil is merely ok and that's only because we have no other options.

It's unfortunate that we signed Bobby Hart to $21 million (cough, I mean TECHNICALLY $16 million before people feel the need to correct me regardless of the fact that it's still a terrible signing). We could've got a couple of solid linebackers for Hart's price and signed a comparable swing tackle but we signed Hart because "WHERE ELSE ARE YOU GONNA FIND A RIGHT TACKLE???" Only to end up drafting a OT in the first.

(04-28-2019, 10:52 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Zach Brown and Jamie Collins are pretty much our only options. It's not like we're expected to compete this year anyway, but I'd hate for Pratt or Jefferson to have a lot of pressure coming into the season to be the solutions. I'm 80% sure we're not interested in them, though. Otherwise, we would've signed them a while ago. The Darron Lee rumors went dead, also. I didn't have a problem with Brown coming back, he got nicked up immediately and while he's far from good in coverage he still came away with 2 INTs. Probably the only guy I'd consider "decent". Vigil is merely ok and that's only because we have no other options.

It's unfortunate that we signed Bobby Hart to $21 million (cough, I mean TECHNICALLY $16 million before people feel the need to correct me regardless of the fact that it's still a terrible signing). We could've got a couple of solid linebackers for Hart's price and signed a comparable swing tackle but we signed Hart because "WHERE ELSE ARE YOU GONNA FIND A RIGHT TACKLE???" Only to end up drafting a OT in the first.

The 'we're not supposed to compete this year' narrative is accurate. But with AJ, Geno, and Dunlap all pushing 30/31 years old...our window to compete isn't going to be open forever.

We do need add LB's.

Then, it's up to IF guys like Ross, Price, Miller who we just signed and some of our other young players can improve.

There really isn't a ton of different from a talent perspective between a team that's 6 wins and a 9-10 win team. It's just a matter of getting guys to perform.

I'm a huge Mixon fan and I think that running him a lot could be a great recipe for success.

(04-28-2019, 04:58 PM)Synric Wrote: There is a misconception about Germaine Pratt...he is not a cover linebacker.

Pratt has good drop and feel in zone coverages with a decent burst. In man hes physical while pressing it's very hard to run through him and hes physical at the top of the route in off man...but Pratt is stiff you dont want him trying to open his hips and chase TEs or WRs on post and corner routes.

i disagree.. one reason they like him is his ability to where to go on the field from his safety experience.. angles and route read are as important or even more than being agile.. plus he played safety so he has some agility..  

(04-28-2019, 10:14 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Vigil is upgradable but not a total liability. Probably better suited for run stopping packages but he’s a decent NFL LB

Like someone said last season - when Vigil is your 3rd best LBer he's very capable of filling that role, not a game changer but a solid starter. When he's your best LBer you're in trouble.

(04-28-2019, 11:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i disagree.. one reason they like him is his ability to where to go on the field from his safety experience.. angles and route read are as important or even more than being agile.. plus he played safety so he has some agility..  

I explained what he does and doesnt well in coverage. He will be better covering flats, curls and possible angle routes to a degree hes at his best when dropping into small zones because he has excellent vision and understands his leverage and help.

In man he is very good pressing at the line of scrimmage its like trying to run through a wall when he has hands on you within 5 yards. But hes stiff you dont want him opening his hips and trying to cover a TE or WR running a corner or post route when they have a free release. 

To me hes a guy that is going to allow completions but with very few Yards after catch.

I am a huge Germaine Pratt fan I have been pushing for him since December and hes been the linebacker I took in both my Mock drafts.

Guys, we have Hardy Nickerson. Relax.

(ducks).

Came here to mention Jamie Collins and I see several others have as well.

Idea: It takes a linebacker 3 years in the league to get decent. Vigil was strong last year until to he was injured. That means Jordan Evans is about to get good, Malik will be decent in another year, and these guys we just drafted might be terrific, it will just take some time. Maybe.

(04-28-2019, 11:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The 'we're not supposed to compete this year' narrative is accurate. But with AJ, Geno, and Dunlap all pushing 30/31 years old...our window to compete isn't going to be open forever.

We do need add LB's.

Then, it's up to IF guys like Ross, Price, Miller who we just signed and some of our other young players can improve.

There really isn't a ton of different from a talent perspective between a team that's 6 wins and a 9-10 win team. It's just a matter of getting guys to perform.

I'm a huge Mixon fan and I think that running him a lot could be a great recipe for success.

Of course. If Taylor's system elevates the Malik Jeffersons, Jordan Willis', John Ross', Nick Vigils, etc and we don't have 15+ players go on IR again we could be competitive. I love the idea of giving Mixon the keys and Taylor did a good job trying to fix the OL through the draft. That was easily the most important thing that had to be done. More LBs do need to be added. Hopefully, they will prove me wrong and bring in a Zach Brown.

Unfortunately, I think we are still at least a draft away from being back to where we were from 11-15. I do think if they're serious about getting the most out of this group while Geno, AJ, Carlos, etc are still high-level players, playoffs should be in the discussion this year. But we're relying on too many things to go our way. If things go bad again, I'm almost certain it's rebuild time.

(04-28-2019, 04:30 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I wish we could have gotten Tre Watson as an UDFA. I think he is going to be an outstanding LB if he is given a real chance to compete somewhere.

Now with that said, and Piston and I have discussed this in another thread, I think a big issue in the LB room may already be solved and that was by subtracting Haslett. I just think the modern game has passed him by. If you look at the measurables of some of the guys in that room they have the measurables you are looking for and check many of the boxes.

Jordan Evans 6'2" 233 ran a 4.50 Pro Day 40 as a senior he had 4 INTs and 8 PD

Malik Jefferson 6'2" 236 ran a 4.52 combine 40 where he is lacking is coverage stats but his abilities lend to him playing a MLB role.

Brandon Bell 6'1" 230 ran a 4.68 pro day 40 over his collegiate career he had 4 INTs and 6 PD

Of course we know what we have in Brown, Vigil, and Vinny but I would agree that we need to be looking at guys that are out there and see what we can bring in.

I know you and I have had our differences in the past. However, I believe that you are 100% spot on here. Haslett was old and coached old school. Lukabu will bring not only fresh coaching ideas but also up to date techniques. This years LBers might not be as "weak" as everybody thinks....

(04-28-2019, 04:30 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I wish we could have gotten Tre Watson as an UDFA. I think he is going to be an outstanding LB if he is given a real chance to compete somewhere.

Now with that said, and Piston and I have discussed this in another thread, I think a big issue in the LB room may already be solved and that was by subtracting Haslett. I just think the modern game has passed him by. If you look at the measurables of some of the guys in that room they have the measurables you are looking for and check many of the boxes.

Jordan Evans 6'2" 233 ran a 4.50 Pro Day 40 as a senior he had 4 INTs and 8 PD

Malik Jefferson 6'2" 236 ran a 4.52 combine 40 where he is lacking is coverage stats but his abilities lend to him playing a MLB role.

Brandon Bell 6'1" 230 ran a 4.68 pro day 40 over his collegiate career he had 4 INTs and 6 PD

Of course we know what we have in Brown, Vigil, and Vinny but I would agree that we need to be looking at guys that are out there and see what we can bring in.

I know you and I have had our differences in the past. However, I believe that you are 100% spot on here. Haslett was old and coached old school. Lukabu will bring not only fresh coaching ideas but also up to date techniques. This years LBers might not be as "weak" as everybody thinks....

With Haslet finally out of the picture I think anyone on the current roster may have a chance to look a whole lot better than last year. Just about everyone looked lost out there under Haslet, especially the younger guys. Guys like Evens and even Nickerson really took their lumps last season and looked bad, but that can be a great learning experience for them, how not to play LB in the league. Jefferson is still up in the air. I think Pratt will be just fine although I'm certainly no LB savant by any stretch of the imagination..  I guess we'll see how they do under a whole new coaching staff.