(04-30-2019, 10:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2009 Bengals started Mathis over Livings until Mathis got injured.

In 2010 Mathis did not deserve to start.  That is why despite have 22 career starts Mathis had o settle for a league minimum contract to be a back up with the Eagles.

How does that change the fact he became an all pro while Livings was out of the league in two years?

(04-30-2019, 02:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: what is more absurd is acting like PFF is a coach

What? Who said anything like that. PFF is used by many teams in the NFL is it a 100% correct no but it's a very useful tool.  Coaches are not always right though either and acting like they are is a joke. Now you tell what is wrong with giving a guy a chance to prove himself when all he has done is play well with his limited snaps?

(04-30-2019, 03:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: How does that change the fact he became an all pro while Livings was out of the league in two years?

It doesn't change any of that.

What is your point?

after the 2010 season Mathis was not worth anything more than a league minimum contract.  You can't try to rip the Bengals without ripping all 32 teams.  They all agreed on what he was worth at that time.

(04-30-2019, 10:44 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Ryan Harris was cut by Philly on September 3rd and never played a down for them. He bounced around the league for a few years after his initial stint in Denver, but only started >15 games three times in his 9 year career.   Justice was injured, but was probable to play for week 1. He didn't because Philly was comfortable with Mathis. 

I never claimed Mathis wasn't given a league minimum contract. I wouldn't expect him to get much more than that after his last year with us. He wasn't signed to just be a back up. He was given a shot to compete for a starting spot and even if he initially started because of injury he played well enough to earn that starting spot for the next 3 years. 

From experience just give this one up and allow Fred's comments to speak on their own merit.

Mathis signed with Philly 1 Day after the lockout was over because he said he wanted to play for Howard Mudd. Fred will paint this as Mathis lingering in FA and having to take a min deal.

Mathis was pimping his gyms during the lockout as another source of income. To do this he took so before and after photos, each photo employing all the usual "tricks". Fred will paint this a Mathis went from fat slob to chiseled in 58 days.

99.9% of the population know that the Cincinnati Bengals and Paul Alexander got it wrong with Mathis. Take solace in that and don't let the 0.1% try to tell you differently. 

Back to the original question,

I think you have to put Jonah at LT and leave him there until he proves he can't do it. I have no doubt in my mind that he will be at least a serviceable starter year 1 with a tremendous upside moving foraward. I'd prefer not to screw with his position by moving him back and forth. He's the most polished LT to come out of the draft in quite some time, so let him continue playing there.

Williams - Boling - Price - Miller - Glenn

(04-28-2019, 10:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Who's your starting 5, who are your backups, who get's shown the door?

Bengals currently have 13 OL on the roster.

Tackles:
Cordy Glenn
Jonah Williams
Bobby Hart
Kent Perkins

Guards:
Clint Boling
Christian Westerman
Michael Jordan
Alex Redmond
John Miller
Rod Taylor

Centers:
Billy Price
Trey Hopkins
Brad Lundblade


My Starting 5:

Cordy Glenn Clint Boling Billy Price John Miller Jonah Williams

That is how I think they will begin the season. Obviously, they'll want to get Williams onto the field, in order to get the best 5 out there. I really can't make any solid predictions on backups/cuts, until I see/read reports from OTAs/training camp/preseason. There's a long way to go before the final depth chart is released, but that's who I predict will be the starting 5 on opening day.

Same as you Sunset.

LT - Cordy Glenn, backups Bobby Hart, Boling, Jonah
LG - Clint Boling, Westerman, Jordan
C - Billy Price, Hopkins
RG - John Miller, Bobby Hart, Michael Jordan, Redmond
RT - Jonah Williams, Bobby Hart, Taylor or Perkins (whoever wins out for the last spot)

Atleast this is probably how it would start out but i sure wouldn't mind having Jonah at LT right off the bat either.

This is another way to go...

LT - Jonah Williams
LG - Cordy Glenn
C - Billy Price
RG - John Miller
RT - Clint Boling

(04-30-2019, 03:06 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Now you tell what is wrong with giving a guy a chance to prove himself when all he has done is play well with his limited snaps?

He has gotten the same chance every other player gets.  The coaches have seen him get hundreds of reps in practice.  And they have also played him in games.  I don't understand fans who act like NFL coaches don't want to win and save their jobs by playing the best players available.  

I don't claim to be able to grade offensive linemen, but I know I saw him get blown up and give up a sack on 2 point attempt.  So he has not always "played well".

(04-30-2019, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 99.9% of the population know that the Cincinnati Bengals and Paul Alexander got it wrong with Mathis. Take solace in that and don't let the 0.1% try to tell you differently. 

100% of the NFL agreed with me.

No matter what coach he wanted to play for Mathis would not have taken a contract for league minimum if he was worth more.  No other NFL player has ever done that and no player ever will.  Starting quality veterans don't take league minimum contracts.

(04-30-2019, 03:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: From experience just give this one up and allow Fred's comments to speak on their own merit.

Mathis signed with Philly 1 Day after the lockout was over because he said he wanted to play for Howard Mudd. Fred will paint this as Mathis lingering in FA and having to take a min deal.

Mathis was pimping his gyms during the lockout as another source of income. To do this he took so before and after photos, each photo employing all the usual "tricks". Fred will paint this a Mathis went from fat slob to chiseled in 58 days.

99.9% of the population know that the Cincinnati Bengals and Paul Alexander got it wrong with Mathis. Take solace in that and don't let the 0.1% try to tell you differently. 

I've been down this rabbit hole with Fred before showing outside sources etc...His one arguement is that he was signed a league minimum deal which makes him not a good player after a year he was given less than 100 snaps. Even though he was one of the top guards in 2009 before being put back on the bench in 2010. He then went on to being a top guard in the entire NFL for multiple seasons.

It's like he was assigned the bad side of a debate in a high school debate club....

(04-30-2019, 03:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 100% of the NFL agreed with me.

No matter what coach he wanted to play for Mathis would not have taken a contract for league minimum if he was worth more.  No other NFL player has ever done that and no player ever will.  Starting quality veterans don't take league minimum contracts.

I don't think anyone can truly debate this point.

(04-30-2019, 03:43 PM)Synric Wrote: I've been down this rabbit hole with Fred before showing outside sources etc...His one arguement is that he was signed a league minimum deal which makes him not a good player after a year he was given less than 100 snaps. Even though he was one of the top guards in 2009 before being put back on the bench in 2010. He then went on to being a top guard in the entire NFL for multiple seasons.

It's like he was assigned the bad side of a debate in a high school debate club....

As I said, dude was out of work for less than 24 hours. Mathis stated he wanted to play for Mudd and jumped at the chance. However, he was smart enough to only sign for 1 year as he knew his worth and most likely realized that it was being squandered here.

But as I said: Just talk solace in being part of the 99.9%.

(04-30-2019, 03:14 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Back to the original question,

I think you have to put Jonah at LT and leave him there until he proves he can't do it.  I have no doubt in my mind that he will be at least a serviceable starter year 1 with a tremendous upside moving foraward.  I'd prefer not to screw with his position by moving him back and forth.  He's the most polished LT to come out of the draft in quite some time, so let him continue playing there.

Williams - Boling - Price - Miller - Glenn

could start him off like whitworth LG until he slides out to LT... 

But what to do with Boiling

(04-30-2019, 03:14 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Back to the original question,

I think you have to put Jonah at LT and leave him there until he proves he can't do it. I have no doubt in my mind that he will be at least a serviceable starter year 1 with a tremendous upside moving foraward. I'd prefer not to screw with his position by moving him back and forth. He's the most polished LT to come out of the draft in quite some time, so let him continue playing there.

Williams - Boling - Price - Miller - Glenn

The thing is Boling has played RT before, Glenn never has...

(04-30-2019, 04:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The thing is Boling has played RT before, Glenn never has...

I think Cordy Glenn would be an excellent fit for RT but he will have to be put there early this offseason so he can feel more comfortable thr footwork. I read somewhere it takes 3 months to become accustom to the switch. It would also allow you to have a high quality veteran on both sides of the line.

Also like to throw out there if Michael Jordan, Christian Westerman, and Trey Hopkins impress the new staff Clint Boling could be an excellent trade option.

(04-30-2019, 03:59 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: could start him off like whitworth LG until he slides out to LT... 

But what to do with Boiling

Boling has played RG (college) before. We could slide him there. Hopefully we do what we need to do to get the 5 best Olinemen on the field.

(04-30-2019, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But as I said: Just talk solace in being part of the 99.9%.

You mean the 99.9% that believes an NFL free agent would say "I know you guys realize I am one of the best guards in the league, but I will play for league minimum because NFL players never have career ending injuries."

Meanwhile I'll take solace in knowing I am right.

(04-30-2019, 04:09 PM)Synric Wrote: I think Cordy Glenn would be an excellent fit for RT but he will have to be put there early this offseason so he can feel more comfortable thr footwork. I read somewhere it takes 3 months to become accustom to the switch. It would also allow you to have a high quality veteran on both sides of the line.

Cordy certainly looks the part of a RT that is true, just would like to have a player that is more accustomed to it as you say, it takes some time. Boling is so versatile and seems like he can play any spot on the line in a seamless switch. Have to have the RT prepared immediately though that is for sure.

(04-30-2019, 04:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Also like to throw out there if Michael Jordan, Christian Westerman, and Trey Hopkins impress the new staff Clint Boling could be an excellent trade option.

Wouldn't surprise me if Westerman really impresses at LG, he has always looked good to me, but i want to keep Boling around regardless cause of his versatility. I would like to trade Glenn away everytime over Boling and it would be cheaper.

(04-30-2019, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said, dude was out of work for less than 24 hours. Mathis stated he wanted to play for Mudd and jumped at the chance. However, he was smart enough to only sign for 1 year as he knew his worth and most likely realized that it was being squandered here.

But as I said: Just talk solace in being part of the 99.9%.

Your argument loses steam when he jumped at shot to sign a league minimum contract within 24 hours. Maybe he knew he had to prove himself and his agent said sign it or be out of work and 1 year league minimum was only offer, we will never know. But we do know it was no bidding war for his services.

Unless the player is a rookie switching positions on the O-line is not rocket science. Footwork, hand placement, balance, and all of that stuff is pretty much the same. Bill Belichick wants every o-lineman to be able to play every position.

But O-lines have to work as a unit more than any other position group. So I don't mind them moving vets around however they want. I just want them to come up with a set unit by the middle of training camp so they can get used to playing together.